What are your monk & rogue fixes? (If you think they need them)


Homebrew and House Rules


I'm always fairly conflicted if the rogue and monk are truly underpowered. I still lean towards yes since they have other classes/archetypes that can do their jobs better. (Unarmed fighter or barbarian for monk and Sandman and vivisectionist for rogue)

This is not meant to be another argument thread about how why either class is weak. Please only post houserules you use for these two classes

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Monk.

Rogue.


For rouge i use Covent's rogue (check the rogue conundrum thread).
For monks i gave all monks weapon as profiency and BAB = level.


Monk
Addresses MAD by reducing the importance of Con, BAB and flurry, makes monk better at combat maneuvers, fixes PF nerfs to Fast Movement and Improved Natural Attack, gives an enhancement bonus to make up for the cost and +5 limit of AoMF, lets Monk use flurry on the move, and more.

Rogue
Merges Ninja and Rogue into 1, letting you pick between the 1st level and per 3 level class features (trapfinding or poison use; trap sense or no trace). Good Will save reduces MAD and means rogue ceases to have the worst saves in the entire game. SA works in concealment and works in most of the ways it did in 3E before PF nerfed it. Free Skill Focus feats to make Rogue the best at skills he chooses. Bonus options for getting more actions in a surprise round by taking a hit to Initiative roll. Main thing, and the unfinished part, is getting to do Epic skill options a limited amount of times per day at higher level without needing to make the crazy high DCs. I would probably add some other options, too.

Neither is completely finished, though monk I think is close.

It's for 3E, but I also really like jiriku's monk fixes which feature wisdom AND dex (or strength) to attack and damage to make up for medium BAB and absurdly high bonuses to jump, balance, and tumble (and I think he plans to add climb and just hasn't yet) to allow for epic skill DC access and fighting low fliers without actually having flight, and much more.


Here's my rogue/ninja revision, including combining them into one class.

The primary goal was making rogue talents significantly more useful, in order to make rogues better at what I feel they should be good at - skills, smart combat, sneak attack, attacking from surprise, etc. I added grit-like mechanics tied to either Intelligence or Charisma, and gave most of the "once per day" rogue talents a point cost, so they could be used more often per day. I also rewrote about half the rogue talents and added a significant number. I also eliminated useless or redundant rogue talents.

I haven't really looked at the monk, but the primary schtick I would give them would be the ability to make a full move and flurry during it, giving them multiple attacks while moving before anyone else.

Silver Crusade

I'm going to try something new with the monk. When using unarmed strike, the monk uses his wisdom in place of strength for to hit and damage.


I let the rogue designate an opponent and deal sneak attack damage against that target without needing flanking or for the opponent to be denied dex, one target per day for every five levels (rounded up). I allow a rogue to give up two skill points/level for full BAB, and allow a feat that lets a rogue reroll a roll once per day and take the better of the two rolls.

I haven't run a group with a monk in PF, but address the MAD by using a 4d6/reroll 1s/drop the lowest for stats, and balance enounters for APL+1. If all the characters have attributes roughly equivalent to a 45 point buy, the monk does pretty well.


My suggestions for the monk (which include wis-to-hit, BTW) are here, together with the results of the play-test I'm currently running.

To sum them up:

Spoiler:
1) Zen Warrior: A monk may choose to use their Wisdom bonus rather than their strength or dexterity bonus for attacks made with special monk weapons, combat maneuvers, or with the monk’s unarmed strike. This is a new ability at first (maybe second) level. One reason I chose to introduce these changes, as the monk in this game has wisdom as his primary stat and was already struggling in melee.

2) Added to the text of Unarmed Strike:
A monk’s unarmed strike treats the hardness or damage resistance (of any type) of a target as less by one point for every level of monk the character possesses. This is a big one, replacing the existing ki-strike options and making the monk able to attempt to hurt anything.

3a) Amending the Ki-Pool entry as follows:
As long as he has at least 1 point in his ki pool, he can make a ki strike. At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to gain a +1 enhancement bonus to hit as a magic weapon. At 7th level this increases to +2, at 10th level, his unarmed attacks are +3, at 13th level +4, and at 16th level his unarmed attacks gain a +5 enhancement bonus to hit. Replaces existing ki-strike options.

3b) By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can make one additional attack a round at his highest attack bonus. As opposed to just with flurry-of-blows.

3c) In addition, he can spend 1 point to move 20 feet in a swift action. As opposed to just +20' movement, if gives him a limited form of pounce.

The total change in word count to the existing monk is +38 words.

The rogue I have given less thought to, but I would like to start with giving them an extra rogue talent at 1st level, an make feats like Skill Focus and Unarmed Strike available as rogue talents. The rogue's problem is unlike the monk's - with the rogue, he's able to do his role; the problem is that other classes can do it almost as well, and do other things besides. He needs to be either able to do more and different things, or else be able to do what he does really well.


I personally agree with the ninja/rogue thing.... ninja should never have been a class just rogue.

IF you did something with ninja, it should have been an off shoot of monk.


Change the AC bonus to a +1 armor and CMD bonus per 2 monk levels. You might even be able to make it a +1/level bonus, and it wouldn't be too powerful.

Change the wholeness of body to 1d6 healing per 2 levels. (5d6 at level 10) For double the ki, you can do it as a swift action.

Allowing monks to spend a point of ki to get a +4 on a single attack roll.

Probably allowing monks to do their unarmed strike damage whenever using monk weapons would help the class.

Allow monks access to the Greater [Combat maneuver] feats as bonus feats.

Make Shuriken better... better range, more per attack, something.

So the improved AC means you really don't need much dex, the improved healing means you need less con.

Giving monks 6 skill points and a few more knowledge skills - diplomacy heal and knowledge planes or something.


well...


Monk w/ reach weapon: You can fight armed or unarmed while wielding a reach weapon using elbows, knees, feet or head.
Glaive: 8 gp, 1d10 x3 — 10 lbs. S reach CRB
M1: stunning fist, flurry of blows, unarmed strike, Combat reflexes, martial weapon Glaive, improved initiative. Use your reach and combat reflexes to trip opponents. you're armed (no attacks of opportunity) and you get +4 bonus for using 2 hand weapon. On the move, use bull rush to knock them prone (same pluses applies). then move in on your prone opponents and follow up with your weapon or FOB (whichever does more damage). If they move or try to get up you get free trip attacks to keep them down. If you get grappled, use stunning fist for release.
M2 dodge
M3 power attack, use on your prone opponents.
M5 lighten weapon (prerequisite. don't worry about this yet)
M6 improved bull rush (more pluses for bull rushing)
M7 improved trip (ditto)
M9 improved evasion, greater bull rush gives you a free hit on prone opponents, good time to power attack.
M10 improved critical, apply to your Glaive.
M11 Improved lighten weapon (a large Glaive does 2d8 damage and your reach is 15-20 ft.). for people 10 ft. or closer 5 ft. step, then weapon or FOB, whichever does more damage at the time.

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