eidolon pincers


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

I am making a summoner and want my eidolon to have a pair of pincers but am confused by the primary/secondary. It says if I only have one attack they are primary. Pincers grants two attacks so are they then both secondary? Or do they mean only one attack form?

If it means attack form and I take rake do my pincers then become secondary?


Coridan wrote:

I am making a summoner and want my eidolon to have a pair of pincers but am confused by the primary/secondary. It says if I only have one attack they are primary. Pincers grants two attacks so are they then both secondary? Or do they mean only one attack form?

If it means attack form and I take rake do my pincers then become secondary?

Pincers (Ex): "An eidolon grows a large pincers at the end of one pair of its limbs, giving it two pincer attacks. These attacks are secondary attacks."

Natural Attacks:
A) "If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one."

B) "If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type."

Giving it the Pincers evolution grants it two secondary natural attacks.

Because there are two attacks granted, part A) does not apply, even if you only attack with one of them.

If Pincers is the only type of natural attack it has, then part B) will apply, treating them as a primary natural attack (but not 1.5x Strength to damage).

Rake is goofy, as they are technically natural attacks, but the eidolon can only use them in a grapple. Your GM may rule that they don't really count as a type of natural attack and let you keep your pincers as primary (as long as you're not grappling) but RAW, the rake attacks make your pincers secondary.

Note that Rake is only available to quadruped base form, which comes with a bite attack anyway, so your pincers are probably going to be secondary attacks no matter what. (Unless you find a way to lose the bite attack)

Liberty's Edge

Yeah I saw that about rake, which is a shame since I wanted a buzzsaw belly like Gigan. Maybe the DM will allow it anyway.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So a followup question...rake.

Rake for summoners is quite different than rake for monsters. Allowing 2 attacks on every single grapple check and says it counts as one attack vs total per round.

If you have pincers with grab and attack, you can grapple and then rake. Can you then attack with the second pincer and grapple check again and get two more attacks in the same round?

Not trying to power game, just want to know how it works.


Releasing a grapple is a free action, so in theory you can hit with your pincer, grab, then if you succeed, make the rake attacks, then release and attack with your next pincer.

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