4-18 Veteran's Vault (Spoilers)


GM Discussion

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5/5

On the darkness, since it is a touch spell and the darkmantle starts on the ceiling it would have to target a point on the ceiling. That means that the radius of the darkness effect shouldn't even be a full 20 feet out in the 5' cubes above the floor (second diagonal and all). The other thing is that this serves as a great lesson for low level players that sometimes retreating, even temporarily, is the best tactic. If you're in over your head, back away and come at it with a different approach.

I've run this four times now and only once was the group completely helpless against the darkness. They managed to pull the (then sleeping) PC that was caught in it out, heal her up, and outlasted the enemy until they could see again and finish the fight. It was rough, but even with 4 mostly brand-new PCs they made it through.

I think this is one of the best tier 1-5 scenarios I've run in a long time. The opportunity for the PCs to talk their way past several combats is a very refreshing change. I really like that the humans can't be talked past, the one encounter most players would expect to diplomacize, even though the NPCs don't really want to fight.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Wait--the GM wasn't having the darkmantle use its grab and constrict ability? It only does 1d4 without that and is no threat at all. When I ran it, I was the one initiating the grabs.

Oh, that thing? I thought the darkness came from the spellcaster BBEG. If memory serves, the darkmantle failed to grapple my wife's magus and was shortly thereafter treated to a couple of solid Spellstrikes. ;)

Hrm, as I recall, the lights went out while it was still on the ceiling. Given that darkness has a range of touch, that would have had a bit of an effect on the AoE, especially at ground level...

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Further given that, I think this was an extremely well designed encounter to showcase darkness and teach new players about it while still being pretty darn winnable even if you can't counter it. So in that sense, I'm happy about it.

Hm, you do raise a good point here...

5/5

Oh, also on the darkness - it's a once per day ability with a duration of 1 minute so it is important for the GM to count rounds since it can be outlasted if things are going poorly.


Andrew Christian wrote:
Nothing is more boring than a bunch of level 1 characters fumbling around in the dark for an hour and a half trying to fight a quick and nimble creature that can see that is slowly nickle and diming you to death.

Something like this CAN happen almost anytime though. Happened to me like the third time ever playing PFS:

First Steps P2:
The blindhelm in there got ALL of us blind, which means we were pretty much stumbling about flailing wildly and eating the 50% miss chances. It was pretty boring. but we got through with it and moved on. And this is a scenario MADE for new players, even lower than subtier 1-2.

Never seen THAT much complaint over the blindhelm fight in there.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

CRobledo wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Nothing is more boring than a bunch of level 1 characters fumbling around in the dark for an hour and a half trying to fight a quick and nimble creature that can see that is slowly nickle and diming you to death.

Something like this CAN happen almost anytime though. Happened to me like the third time ever playing PFS:

** spoiler omitted **

To be fair, that fight gives every PC a save to negate the effect, so the odds of the entire party being blinded are incredibly low (compared to this scenario, where it's more likely than not).

5/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Ones which require some very specific countermeasures if you intend to participate in combat...
Why can't you participate when you can't see?

Perhaps when Jiggy said participate, he meant participate with even a modicum of effectiveness.

Nothing is more boring than a bunch of level 1 characters fumbling around in the dark for an hour and a half trying to fight a quick and nimble creature that can see that is slowly nickle and diming you to death.

Just this exact thing nearly ended in a TPK with a table of 3 and a Merisiel pregen (would have been Kyra, but a level 1 cleric was already at the table).

Due to grappling, the darkmantle gets little benefit from the darkness (as Jiggy mentioned, his wife slaughtered it), so let's talk about Mifra. After the centipede disappears (3 rounds after casting) and she runs out of her at most 5 magic missile spells, the party essentially wins. She can at best throw darts for 1d2-4 (+1d6 sneak attack if the party is willing to oblige her by staying within 30 feet of the darkness, but that's still 1 damage on average per turn even with sneak). Then after 10 rounds, the darkness is gone and she dies even more readily. Now granted, the stealth is strong with this one, so they're unlikely to be able to pinpoint her square until darkness is gone, but she just doesn't have sustainable firepower, making her the perfect choice, in my mind, for this encounter--eventually the PCs win because she runs out of steam, and they learn a valuable lesson too, whether they beat the darkness or not.

5/5

Mifra is fun in the darkness. I like to have her move into the square of someone who can't see and sneak attack them, stabbing them in the rear. First on the left cheek, then the right. It is both confusing for the players (thinking she is moving around them) and hilarious for me. :D

Dark Archive

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Has anyone come up with a reasonable street address for Sascha's shop and the alley?

I am planning on using the Korvosa map from Curse of the Crimson Throne Players guide. It would be nice to point to the shop and the alley on the map, and not risk breaking anything.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

KestlerGunner wrote:
Just to clarify, in the final fight the party faces off against Mifra and Xarmigash alone? The three Jinkins that serve Mifra are nowhere to be seen?

The other jinkins do not willingly run to Mifra's aid (remember, she's losing control over her tribe in her attempts to move her darkmantle into the sewer), but if Imini and/or Pafuff accompanies the PCs into Mifra's room, the jinkins all fight against the PCs together (see page 14). It is unlikely that a party will bring the gremlins that far, as there are two or three opportunities beforehand in which the gremlins try to get the PCs killed. I imagine that most parties would stomp the jinkins and toss their bodies into the water before actually reaching Mifra.

As for the darkness, it is fairly short-lived, and in part it serves to give Mifra a screen of protection to pull her crazy, gremlin hijinks--a similar reason for the multitude of caltrop-like sharp implements scattered across the floor. It is true that it is hard for some parties to handle darkness but because of the size of the compound and the fairly low damage potential of the combatants (yes, I recognize that a darkmantle can pack a punch if it gets on a roll), I felt quite comfortable introducing the darkened conditions into Subtier 1-2. I think Rogue Eidolon has the right idea that this can serve as a good teaching encounter for dealing with darkness.

What might allay the concerns of those who dislike darkness at low levels are two of the thoughts that go through my head when I see a darkness encounter on the horizon for Subtier 1-2. First, I try my darnedest to make sure that it's not deeper darkness, as that really shuts down tables. Yes, not everyone has a teammate with darkvision, but at least darkvision is an option for the 2nd level version of the spell.

Second, I am very cautious about throwing a very...efficient opponent at the beginning PCs in darkness. By efficient I mean a creature that has high intelligence, powerful targeted attacks, hit-and-run tactics, and similar features that lead to very efficient PC death. In the case of this scenario, we have a low-intelligence creature that can deal a respectable amount of damage, but it's also unlikely to outright kill a PC if he falls unconscious. Mifra is a gremlin and is thus quite playful in her tactics. Also, as someone pointed out, her damage in the lower subtier is really quite low, so even if she pull's hit-and-run maneuvers, she is dealing a point or two of damage. That, or she makes someone giggle uncontrollably for 1 round.

Hopefully when combined it creates a memorable if somewhat difficult fight. If the PCs learn how to handle darkness in the meantime, all the better.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

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ZomB wrote:

Has anyone come up with a reasonable street address for Sascha's shop and the alley?

I am planning on using the Korvosa map from Curse of the Crimson Throne Players guide. It would be nice to point to the shop and the alley on the map, and not risk breaking anything.

I think Harborview Boulevard South or Eodred Way would be good options that allow PCs to get a respectable distance into Midland.

Grand Lodge

Cheers John!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

John Compton wrote:
It is true that it is hard for some parties to handle darkness but because of the size of the compound and the fairly low damage potential of the combatants (yes, I recognize that a darkmantle can pack a punch if it gets on a roll), I felt quite comfortable introducing the darkened conditions into Subtier 1-2. I think Rogue Eidolon has the right idea that this can serve as a good teaching encounter for dealing with darkness.

Yeah, you guys convinced me. Seems well-handled, and I edited my review accordingly. Thanks for getting off to a solid start, John!

Dark Archive 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Minnesota—Minneapolis aka Silbeg

Personally, I thought it was an excellent scenario, and we had a lot of fun playing it (at tier 4-5). That being said, our GM checked the initial encounter with the Otyughs about six times to see if there was any scaling on it... and was VERY surprised that there wasn't. At the time, we had myself (Gunslinger 4), a Barb1/Sorc2, Druid 4, and Rogue 4. That fight was really tough (I never had a clue that we could have talked our way out of it... of course, I think we saw it... and attacked. I was quite surprised when I heard the thing talking... I distinctly remember saying, "I didn't know they could talk?!")

After that fight we were joined by a pregen Kyra 4... which was a GREAT help. (A late-comer player showed up...)

The rest of the fights were quite interesting. We had almost gotten the two (urban rangers, was it?) to talk, when the Jinkin lit up the eyes of the statue, causing them to freak out and attack. We ended up (accidently) killing one of them, mostly because our rogue had never thought about buying a sap! We scared the Jinkin off, and then managed to subdue the other ranger... allowing me to complete my faction mission!

The ooze fight was a bit tough, but doable. Munny was on a roll that day, when he hit, he hit HARD. Did misfire in that combat, though. The final fight was really nasty though... the summoned 'gator blocked the door, and the summon pit spell split the party. We managed, once I was able to get help get the Aasimir Barb/Sorc out of the pit with a rope tied to a door... the fact that the darknesses should have been tied to the ceiling was probably missed, but ended up being a non-issue. The poor druid and the rogue were the two in the room, being manhandled by everything in there, while Munny worked on getting the other two out, and himself into the room.

A memorable scenario, well worth my time! Munny managed to go through, I believe, 18 of his 20 shots!!! No big deal, but had taught me to bring more ammo along! Guess he'll be buying a keg of gunpowder, and putting it into a Handy Haversack after this scenario... never gonna run out of powder or bullets again (or even stand the risk of running out).


I played the low tier and we fought two encounters. I do not know if this was scaled out or forgotten, but our 4 party team never saw the darkmantle.

My orc/dragon sorcerer had dark vision, but everyone else would have been stumbling around had darkness dropped on us.

The encounter before the boss fight I handled with burning hands before we knew what it would do. So I never found out what it was.

I really enjoyed not killing everything as we went. My character Why-Knee Face is scared of everything and was very fun to bring down there.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I ran this at a con Saturday with a couple of inexperienced players. Overall good scenario, but I had to be pretty generous with what they could do in the darkness. They got fairly creative, so I just went with it and let them figure out where their targets were perhaps a little more than I should have. Most notably, they threw handfuls of coins around to try to wake up victims of a sleep spell.

Party:
Half-orc monk 1
Elf alchemist 1
Pre-gen sorcerer 1
Pre-gen wizard 1
Kitsune heavens oracle 3
Elf rogue 1

The ability to bribe the otyugh was great, since I doubt this group would have been ready for the 15' reach. Very memorable, but I was the one waving my arms like tentacles so I'm probably biased.

Food shopping diversion:
The group first tried getting sheeps and pigs, but they're kind of pricy, so they went for chicken and rabbits instead. Then wizard player said "How about cats?" At 3 cp for 8 lbs, they considered that the jackpot. They ended up feeding the otyugh a chicken, 2 rabbits, and 4 cats. And the oracle's diplomacy roll was good enough that it didn't matter that they were cheapskates.

The fight with the rangers ended on the first move. The groups had come to an understanding and were about to let each other pass when the jinkin put on her display. The heavens oracle won initiative and the rangers tasted the rainbow. The jinkin really didn't like that, but couldn't hit anything, got backed into a corner, and died from an AoO while trying to dimension door.

The fights with the plants went well. The wizard player used his burning hands on the curtain of fungus, so I just let him have the kill on the fire-immune electricity hazard from 4-5 and he also hit one of the xtabays behind it. Everyone who was hit with the pollen failed their save, the alchemist had nice grouping for his bombs and woke people up with splash damage. Fun fight overall that did a little damage to the group, mostly from the alchemist.

The ooze fight was great, although the second jinkin couldn't hit anything either. The monk stepped on the ooze, then backed up before he took any more damage and the alchemist annihilated it with the alkali flask. The second jinkin escaped.

Then comes the final fight. It started out great. The rogue had a readied action and decapitated the centipede the instant it appeared. Then darkness fell. In a room filled with pseudo-caltrops.

Fight details:
Let me first mention that this is the first time I've had to handle a fight in darkness where the enemy was delibrately taking advantage of it. I have been in a few before, though.

The half-orc monk was the only party member who could see and got dropped below zero by the darkmantle constricting in one round. Perhaps fortunately, he didn't get any healing before he fell and the darkmantle went after other prey. The oracle summoned a dire rat which kept the darkmantle occupied for a precious three rounds. I declined to have Mifra order it to attack better targets.

I had to be generous with what these characters could do in the darkness. For example, I let Seoni's skink point her to the nearest enemy (I couldn't find the lizard familiar quickly enough so I mistakenly let it have scent like the other lizards in the bestiary). I let the monk should out directions, too ("No, your other left!"), once he was back up. Mifra started casting sleep, which made her easier to find, but the rogue missed and she made her save against color spray. Meanwhile, the alchemist was afraid of hitting his friends, so slowly made it over to the monk to jab him with a wand of CLW. Sleep went off, with the fey bloodline making it a hard DC 17 save. Both spellcasters failed (the wizard player had to leave early), and the other two targets were elves. Now that I think about it, I forgot to have the familiar make a save. Could have woken up Seoni early.

Fast forward. The rogue is down and bleeding, the monk has been up and down a couple of times, Mifra is out of spells and using laughing touch so they can't attack the darkmantle. The awake characters (monk and alchemist) are now in the light on the other side of the room and are desperate to wake up the sleepers, especially the oracle to save the rogue, who she's right next to, so they start throwing handfuls of coins into the darkness. I have no idea if that's enough to wake them, but I let them have a 50% chance of waking on a good ranged attack roll. It took a couple of rounds since they were also having to deal with the darkmantle and magic missles. They eventually do it right at the end of the fight, and she saves the rogue. Finally, the monk stays up long enough to take out the darkmantle. Since Mifra was completely ineffective against him without spells, I decided that after a brief fit throwing darts, she just d-doored out even though she's only been hit once. I allowed the Osirion players to find her notebook elsewhere.

Anyway, the fight took over ten rounds. Ten kind of boring rounds for characters who were asleep in the darkness and couldn't be found or reached to be woken. Other than that fight, it was a fun little dungeon crawl.

Dark Archive

I'm looking at the darkmantle's stats in the Bestiary, and I'm a little confused.

Is the darkmantle supposed to have 16 strength, or is its damage supposed to only be 1d4. The PRD seems to think 11 strength is accurate (although its constrict damage is too low), but the latest printing of the Bestiary has them as doing 1d4+4 damage with their slam and then 1d4+4 with their constrict.

A darkmantle gets a lot more deadly at 1-2 if it can do that much damage.

Dark Archive

Mike Lindner wrote:
Oh, also on the darkness - it's a once per day ability with a duration of 1 minute so it is important for the GM to count rounds since it can be outlasted if things are going poorly.

minute per level, CL 5th

Generally its not that important, its too long for typical combat, and if you withdraw, its not that long to wait to return.

5/5

ZomB wrote:
Mike Lindner wrote:
Oh, also on the darkness - it's a once per day ability with a duration of 1 minute so it is important for the GM to count rounds since it can be outlasted if things are going poorly.

minute per level, CL 5th

Generally its not that important, its too long for typical combat, and if you withdraw, its not that long to wait to return.

Oops, I misread that. Thanks for the correction.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

I'm looking at the darkmantle's stats in the Bestiary, and I'm a little confused.

Is the darkmantle supposed to have 16 strength, or is its damage supposed to only be 1d4. The PRD seems to think 11 strength is accurate (although its constrict damage is too low), but the latest printing of the Bestiary has them as doing 1d4+4 damage with their slam and then 1d4+4 with their constrict.

A darkmantle gets a lot more deadly at 1-2 if it can do that much damage.

Huh, interesting. There is nothing indicating why it would have the +4 damage.

Dark Archive

Exactly. Do its stats trump its damage, or does its damage trump its stats?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'm noticing in the PRD that the constrict ability says its damage is "typically" the same as its melee attack damage. Perhaps darkmantles are the reason it says "typically", and get higher damage on a constrict than they get with a melee attack/normal grapple damage?

Dark Archive

I'm actually beginning to think that the melee damage was changed but the constrict damage was forgotten.

At 1-2, I am wary of the 1d4+4 combined with a constrict that does 1d4+4.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

The Bestiary itself has the attack doing 1d4+4 as well Jiggy.

While the PRD only has Constrict doing the 1d4+4.

There is a conflict of information. And the two errata documents for the Bestiary don't cover this conflict.

Liberty's Edge

I just ran this last night for my group at tier 1-2, and I have a question about the total gold. I could only find the 2 encounters that gave a reward: 29gp for the 2 Traffickers and the Jinkin and 433gp for the final encounter and recovering the treasure, for a total of 462gp, while the chronicle sheet has 519 listed as the max gold. I did some quick math and it seems that tier 4-5 is out a bit of gold as well.

If the characters were thorough, completed all of the encounters and searched most everywhere, should they have gotten the 462gp, or should they get max gold? Or am I just clueless, and missed something really obvious?

Dark Archive

The max gold is what a character earns if all encounters are successfully resolved in some way. If they defeat/use resources to successfully avoid the traffickers, they get that gold. If they run away from them, you subtract 29 gp from their total. If they do not defeat the final fight, you subtract whatever they would have gained from the gold each player gets.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Unless the PCs either pitifully fail an encounter (including already being dead before reaching said encounter), or have to do some mid-session shopping, then don't even bother looking at the per-encounter gold breakdown. Just assume max gold unless there's a specific reason to deduct some.

Dark Archive

Jiggy put it in better words, so pay attention to Jiggy.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks for the quick responses. I wasn't sure what was up, since all of the other scenarios I have had a chance to look at so far the gold awarded in the scenario has totaled up to the Max gold.

Dark Archive

It's slightly unusual. An encounter or bit of found wealth was likely cut in the editing process.


I had some experience with darkness in games before even starting PFS play. This is why every character i make either has a everburning torch or the ioun stone. This was a unique scenari when i played it at 4-5 though. Not only was there 2are blobs of darkness covering the room. But a stinking cloud from a summoned dretch as well. Even with my everburning torch, the stinking cloud really had us scrambling. I immediately took the gust of wind spell after playing this so i have some way to stop it if it happens again. IIRC stinking cloud is a creation effect so not subject to dispel magic.

5/5

Robert Matthews 166 wrote:
I had some experience with darkness in games before even starting PFS play. This is why every character i make either has a everburning torch or the ioun stone. This was a unique scenari when i played it at 4-5 though. Not only was there 2are blobs of darkness covering the room. But a stinking cloud from a summoned dretch as well. Even with my everburning torch, the stinking cloud really had us scrambling. I immediately took the gust of wind spell after playing this so i have some way to stop it if it happens again. IIRC stinking cloud is a creation effect so not subject to dispel magic.

Keep in mind that everburning torch and ioun torch won't do anything against a darkness or deeper darkness spell. There are other threads that explain all the details better than I can repeat here.

Dark Archive

Interesting to do a summoned dretch. The tactics specifically call for a fiendish crocodile.

Grand Lodge

I have a question about the Darkmantle's Darkness ability in the last fight and sort of a backdoor question about light/darkness. If the only light sources in the room are PC sources and the darkmantle uses it's darkness ability, countering/dispelling the light sources, does that not put the room into deeper darkness, confounding the jinkin and the darkmantles as well?


No. Darkness can only drop the light level to Dark.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Hawkwen Agricola wrote:
If the only light sources in the room are PC sources and the darkmantle uses it's darkness ability, countering/dispelling the light sources, does that not put the room into deeper darkness, confounding the jinkin and the darkmantles as well?

Lab Rat is correct that darkness never inhibits darkvision. The ability to go supernaturally dark is an effect unique to deeper darkness.

Also, technically darkness isn't being used to counter or dispel light sources, it just doesn't allow them to raise the light level within the area. (Which is actually a stronger effect than countering or dispelling a light source, since it can simultaneously hold down multiple light sources; if used to counter/dispel, the guy would have to touch the light source and also wouldn't produce an AoE.)

Grand Lodge

Great, thanks for the quick responses. I feel foolish now, I read the spell description but passed over the part about only going to dark. Had the other way stuck in my head. Too many days of trying to wade through all darkness/light threads.

Dark Archive

Jiggy, what if someone were to hold a light source outside of the area of darkness? Would that improve the ambient light level?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Jiggy, what if someone were to hold a light source outside of the area of darkness? Would that improve the ambient light level?

What a fascinating question...

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I played this Friday night. It's unusual for an encounter to leave an entire group of players speechless but one did.

We were an all-Tien party. My friend Bob and I were Aasimar brothers from Tienjing, and we had a couple of Tien NPCs with us. We found the suspiciously-innocent-looking plants, and my celestial-bloodline sorcerer Idyllkin used his summon nature's allyII spell-like ability to conjure up a celestial --oh, I don't know -- goblin dog, to walk through the flowers and attack the back one.

The plant creature attacked, with acid. But the celestial goblin dog is resistant to acid, so it was okay. And the plant had come in contact with the goblin dog, and then failed its Fortitude save, so it was subject to the allergic reaction and suffered 2 points of Dex and 2 points of Charisma. (There's nothing that says that plants aren't vulnerable, plants aren't immune to disease, and they're not goblin-types.) The plant's Charisma is 1, so the 2 points shut it down.

All the players were looking around at one another, asking, "what just happened?"

Dark Archive

Goblin dogs probably defoliate quite a bit of a forest as they walk through, actually.

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka Yiroep

Unfortunately, the goblin dog's allergic reaction imparts a penalty, not damage. So it doesn't reduce it to less than 1.

Still pretty funny, though.


When i ran this scenario a few weeks ago the PCs' druid successfully diplomacized the fleshy. I was happy that this scenario offered noncombat alternatives.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

Robert A Matthews wrote:
When i ran this scenario a few weeks ago the PCs' druid successfully diplomacized the fleshy. I was happy that this scenario offered noncombat alternatives.

Awesome! I'm glad to hear that someone was able to talk down the leshy.

Also, non-combat alternatives are wonderful things, and some of my favorite moments in Pathfinder Society Organized Play have been the non-combat solutions to encounters.


John Compton wrote:
Also, non-combat alternatives are wonderful things, and some of my favorite moments in Pathfinder Society Organized Play have been the non-combat solutions to encounters.

I've just started this scenario so I haven't ready any of the other posts/spoilers, but clicked on the link to your post.

Let me jump on this. I would really really really appreciate it if more authors could/would offer skill based ways to avoid combat. Especially skills other than Diplomacy.

Thanks.

Grand Lodge

I've run this twice and played it once. All three times the party was able to avoid conflict with the leshy and the otyugh.

Dark Archive

Is there meant to be a non-combat way through the Leshy if no one in the group can speak Sylvan or Druidic? My players seemed very earnestly to not want to engage the thing, and so I applied a -5 penalty on their miming that they only wanted to pass through. Good or bad?

Grand Lodge

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Is there meant to be a non-combat way through the Leshy if no one in the group can speak Sylvan or Druidic? My players seemed very earnestly to not want to engage the thing, and so I applied a -5 penalty on their miming that they only wanted to pass through. Good or bad?

When I played it, there was no one who spoke either language either. The GM did the same and with a lucky, high initial Diplo. check and several successful aids we were able to mime our friendship and be led through the garden.

5/5

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Is there meant to be a non-combat way through the Leshy if no one in the group can speak Sylvan or Druidic? My players seemed very earnestly to not want to engage the thing, and so I applied a -5 penalty on their miming that they only wanted to pass through. Good or bad?

Hmm, I dunno, I could see it either way--the scenario seems to make it clear that those languages are important. When I ran it, due to extremely unfortunate double 20s with a quarterstaff, I had killed their Sylvan-spoeaker. I was really proud of the paladin, though--he always has lots of great expendables, and he managed to have Kyra use his scroll of tongues on him so he could talk to it.

This question pulls at me from opposite directions on two of my favorite things to see--On the one hand, I absolutely love non-combat solutions. On the other, I also love rewarding people who take obscure languages or carry around tongues to be sure they can communicate.

Shadow Lodge

Played it yesterday. It was the kind of module you wondering if it suffered from weak GMing when we 'diverged from the script' so to speak (in fact the GM's comments were 'That's not how the module is supposed to work').

First was the 'hungry' Otugth. We tried to feed it then fought it to the point wear it surrendered. Promised it food if it joined us, rolled a 27 on diplomancy, included it in a channel energy and even promised the dwarf as a meal if (provided he didn't object) and we didn't find good food soon.

GM made it go away, which was fine. Still, I thought it would have been cool to befriend said monster, even temporarilly.

Secondly, we found the escape route for the BBEG on our way in, defeated the Ooze, and went to the end of the passage. Found a door which we could not open. We spiked it shut so that nobody could come back behind us. Got to the final fight and the BBEG tried to retreat through that door. We were told that there was a small opening that we had 'missed' that she could squeeze through. She would have escaped, however our attacks of opportunity hit and finished her off.

I will probably run it next month and am curious?

Is this how it was 'supposed' to work?

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