|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I keep reading posts warning how deadly Bonekeep is. Brock keeps posting about more and more PCs claimed by Bonekeep. So it's deadly. But is it fun to play? Not just challenging (I've read that it is and well written for combat), but has something other that one fight after another. Oh, and are the rewards worth it? I'll have two slots and GenCon. Is this worth one of them?
This inquiring mind wants to know.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I will plug in my two cents here.
I played with Mike Brock as the GM at MegaCon in Orlando. I died in the second room, along with one of the other PCs.
Now, I know a lot of folks will take that opportunity to spend the rest of the session wandering around, noodling on their phone, reading rulebooks, or simply pouting.
Not this scenario. I stayed to the very end. Most of the mod I rooted for the rest of the party, but this scenario was so awesome that by the end, I was actually going back and forth between rooting for the party and being delighted by the challenging encounter design.
Edge of my seat for three hours as a SPECTATOR to a PFS scenario.
Absolutely worth one of your slots.
|
Do you like challenging combats?
Do you like having to frantically comb through your inventory and character sheet, racing to find that ONE option that you need to keep yourself - and your entire party! - alive?
Then yes.
Do this. Play it; don't look back; buy your ticket.
I played at Winter Fantasy and it was SO worth my 1 free slot :)
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
It's an old school dungeon crawl with a neat twist. The following types of players will love this scenario:
1 - Those looking to test their PC's build.
2 - Those who remember what it was like to take 10 rounds to move 10 feet through a dungeon..
3 - Those who truly enjoy teamwork rather than trying to "solo" scenarios (or watching as others "solo" a scenario).
3a - Those who enjoy watching players who are used to "soloing" a scenario squirm as their PC is invalidated by something unexpected.
4 - Those who want unique challenges that don't often appear in PFS.
5 - Those who like paying attention to little details because they always matter later on in the dungeon.
I'm sure there are more, but those types leap to mind. I ran it six times at one convention, and most of the players who really had fun fit the above molds.
On the other hand, if you like social encounters or can't stand a scenario in which every room is a potential threat, this is not the scenario for you. The role playing will happen with your teammates, not with the NPCs in the scenario.
As a GM I enjoyed it because the encounters were all relatively unique, with nifty effects and/or abilities, and cool terrain hazards. I enjoyed having the flexibility to ramp up or drop down the difficulty for what was needed, all while being well within the rule of "run as written."
|
|
Played Bonekeep in Sydney this weekend - my character died in room three and most the party died in room four just one PC escaped.
Lots of fun but without 72 odd prestige this character ain't coming back, which is depressing when you think of the hours put in.
You are given a warning upfront that death is very likely and to turn back now if you don't want to proceed - and in an earlier game one player did withdraw.
I'm not sure of the reward is worth the risk but the game play is.
Play it but be prepared.
|
I played it at Who's Yer Con with a group of five 6-7's plus a 5 and a fantastic mix of character types. We were "successful" with no deaths, but no one felt like they had done very well. I guess doing six rooms with no deaths should be considered a "win" though. We definitely felt fortunate at the end.
|
I played it at Who's Yer Con with a group of five 6-7's plus a 5 and a fantastic mix of character types. We were "successful" with no deaths, but no one felt like they had done very well. I guess doing six rooms with no deaths should be considered a "win" though. We definitely felt fortunate at the end.
Ah, Bummer, Mike. Hope you're coming to Gencon. Haven't seen you in years.
-Trevor
|
|
We were lucky enough to have Mike run Bonekeep for some of us in Melbourne last week.
Truthfully I was scared of the reputation and intent of this game. It just isn't my kind of thing to pit my characters against impossible odds. Nonetheless we had a great time and only had ourselves to blame for the deaths at the table. Although I wish I could have done more to save our gunslinger.
Deadly mod. Good fun. We pushed one room beyond our capabilities and paid the price. Thank the powers that be for Dimension Door or there would have been more carnage.
|
Just played this this weekend at Egypt Wars. This was run by Bob Jonquet and we played using the 3D map he painstakingly constructed. Pure awesomeness. That made it worth playing by itself. Thank you Bob.
We went in and went left past the pool room. The first 2 rooms were challenging but definitely doable. Heck, this isnt so bad... LOL.
We got to the room with the chest on the platform and one of our gunslingers used utility shot to open it. Then we used an eidolon with 15' reach to grab the stuff out. All the while, I'm thinking... where are the monsters... this is too easy.
Next room we run into the rats from hell. All but two of us ran back into the chest room to get away from the cloud. Next round one of the big rats teleported to the top of the platform setting off the trap. I think we all took 38 points of damage from that.
Then there was a cloud in that room too. To make a long story short, two hours later, we finally defeated them but not before one of the gunslingers and a barbarian (myself) were laying on the floor bleeding out. I had 4 critical hits negated by miss chance. I have learned a lesson from that.
Fun, but challenging does not begin to describe it. I shudder to think what we had in store for us in the remainder of the dungeon.
|
|
Thank you Bob
You are more than welcome. I had the pleasure of running this three times at Egypt Wars and despite my initial concerns that it would merely be a tpk-fest, I can report that all players seemed to enjoy themselves and the challenge. While I pushed everyone to the limits, there were no fatalities. Maybe I'm just too soft :-)
|
|
Maybe I'm just too soft :-)
I would say that was the reason, but out of the six tables we ran at the con, only 1 character was killed total.
I played it under Michael VonHasseln. My group completed five rooms in 3.5 hours, and Tim Watkins and I (both having read it before playing it) were fairly sure we could have completed the entire dungeon in the 5 hour span, should we have had the time.
Order of rooms:
Top Center- Complete
Top Left- Complete
Middle Left- Incomplete, didnt know what to do
Middle- Complete
Middle Right- Complete
Lower Right- Complete
Party (playing up):
Diviner Wizard 7
Ape Shaman Druid 6? (with large-sized Ape companion)
Alchemist/Barb 6?
Flame Oracle 6?
Halfling Cavalier 7?
Gunslinger/Cavalier 7?
Definitely had fun. Really looking forward to GMing it at Gencon. :)
|
Haven't played it or read it yet, but I'm scheduled to run both parts at GenCon. The first part is already in my downloads, so I really should get started reading it soon.You are obviously a highly trained professional, or at least a quasi-trained semi-professional...
Would you believe an untrained amateur?
Actually, I did take a GM 101 course with a Venture Captain once. Does that count?
|
Played this recently recently. My review is below:
I like a good portion of the PFS scenarios. This one? Meh. I would think given enough time and energy, a lot of us could string together encounters that are either very highly challenging or very easy. I'm not sure if they stuck with the writer's guidelines for the number of EL's/CR's for a standard PFS module. From the fact there was at least 2 more encounters than I typically see in the longer PFS scenarios, I doubt it. If they did, then color me very impressed on the author(s) ability to put together extremely challenging encounters within the typical guidelines.
But (you knew there would be one), it felt like a bunch of unrelated encounters stuck together with a very thin veneer of storyline. To be honest, it felt like the Grand Melee at Paizo Con two years ago -- just a set of encounters in an arena designed to test characters and parties. Actually, scratch that. The Grand Melee did a better job of setting things up and giving you at least some modicum of immersion and 'character motivation' to be there. The one bit I did find interesting in Bone Keep, Pt 1(the collecting of certain things to solve a 'mystery') was pretty much over-shadowed by the room to room march through increasingly challenging miniatures skirmishes. Frankly, I expect more from even a dungeon crawl (story-wise, trap-wise, dungeon-ecology-wise, pretty much everything but combat-wise).
It was in marked contrast to the special I played the previous day - Day of the Demon. This one was chock full of great mood-setting, an interesting story, interesting villains, and at least one pretty great combat. It was very easy for me to get immersed in what was going on in the scenario and feel 'there'. I HIGHLY recommend this scenario to any that are lucky enough to have a chance to play it.
Here's to hoping the second part of the Ruins of Bonekeep does a good job of setting the mood and engaging both halves of the brain.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed above are my own and in no way reflect on the GM or other players at either table, as I enjoyed hanging out with all of them and consider them all [Fun People]TM
|
|
It wasn't my personal cup of tea and it really just goes along with other scenarios that I really just regret playing.
The only person I would recommend this to is someone who really just maximized their build going in and is intent on testing it to the fullest.
If you are playing a character that is anything less than exceptional (maybe through a non-optimal multiclass, feat choice, equipment, spells, etc.), I would recommend against playing in the scenario.
In my opinion though, the worst part about this event was on the part of those running the event. Because this event ran two nights in a row, I was joining in on the second night. Unfortunately that led to a much smaller attendance and only leaving us four players at the table. The low attendance was certainly not their fault, it wasn't really under their control. Of the three to five organizers/GMs that passed by, I am certain all of them knew the details of the event, but not one of them remotely mentioned anything to the effect "You do know that it doesn't scale for party size and will completely wreck you, right?"
The actual game was run as fine as I could expect, but I knew right from the first encounter that going into this event was a mistake. Following it, I'm not really looking forward to any other PFS event of this nature.
I have read many posts on Bonekeep and how difficult it is, and I have no issues with difficulty, but it is statements like this that concern me a bit:
If you are playing a character that is anything less than exceptional (maybe through a non-optimal multiclass, feat choice, equipment, spells, etc.), I would recommend against playing in the scenario.
I want something challenging, but not where I need an exceptional, power character to make it through the dungeon.
I hope it's more along the lines of if you are well prepared, play smart and a decent build of a character you should be able to make it out alive. Not where you need to be fully optimized.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I hope it's more along the lines of if you are well prepared, play smart and a decent build of a character you should be able to make it out alive.
It is.
I have run this scenario six times, and while it is dangerous, it rewards smart play over optimized characters is my experience. I have killed optimized characters aplenty, and each of them were somewhat surprised. Meanwhile, a couple very smart groups (and excellent role players, by the way) made it through the entire dungeon.
Have a plan. Be prepared. And remember that this is a group game; your teammates and their abilities WILL matter.
Ok, thanks Drogon.
Where I have roleplayed for a long time, and PFRPG since it's started, my PFS character is by no means fully optimized. I make the best character I can that fits with my idea of who my character is. I don't have any deliberate handicaps by any means, but I also don't have any dump stats to give myself a 20 strength.
When I read the description of Bonekeep, it sounded like a lot of fun, so I wanted to give it a shot. I certainly will do my best to prepare for it and have always liked working with others.
The only thing I am concerned about now is actually making it to the scenario. I will be at PaizoCon, and would like to get into 3-4 events, and then have Day of the Demon as my first event at GenCon. I have about 4-5 events until Bonekeep, so if my character dies, it's a moot point anyways. :)
|
|
We played this as the last slot of a 4 day convention. I liked it, but I really wished we had played it earlier in the con and we planned for a long game. We ended up tapping out with two rooms left to go because we were way over time and everyone was very tired and very hungry. The characters not only need to be up to snuff, but the players need to be much more refreshed than what our table was. We all met at 9 am (I should have known that we had several hours before it actually got underway by this point in the con but I took this to mean ready to play at 9 and skipped breakfast) and I think we finished about 5pm and at least two us hadn't had our first meal of the day yet.
That being said, I was having a blast with it and wanted to press on. Food, rest, and very long battles got the best of some of our teammates.
I would think given enough time and energy, a lot of us could string together encounters that are either very highly challenging or very easy.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
|
|
Ok, thanks Drogon.
Where I have roleplayed for a long time, and PFRPG since it's started, my PFS character is by no means fully optimized. I make the best character I can that fits with my idea of who my character is. I don't have any deliberate handicaps by any means, but I also don't have any dump stats to give myself a 20 strength.
When I read the description of Bonekeep, it sounded like a lot of fun, so I wanted to give it a shot. I certainly will do my best to prepare for it and have always liked working with others.
The only thing I am concerned about now is actually making it to the scenario. I will be at PaizoCon, and would like to get into 3-4 events, and then have Day of the Demon as my first event at GenCon. I have about 4-5 events until Bonekeep, so if my character dies, it's a moot point anyways. :)
It is very hard to say how well one would do based upon party composition. You might be fine depending on other party members.
If I had any example to give, I would say that if, for some reason, the rules were ignored to allow seven characters play in the scenario however, those characters would be all 4th level iconics to participate in one game(Kyra (cleric), Valeros (fighter), Merisiel (rogue), Ezren (wizard), Lirianne (gunslinger), Reiko (ninja), Hayato (samurai)), for them I would say that with great tactics, a lot of metagaming, and a significant bit of luck, they would be able to finish half the scenario before forced to surrender.
I haven't tried this out so this is just based on my little knowledge of the scenario and what I believe the iconics are capable of, even with the extra character those characters they aren't going to be able to complete this scenario. They just aren't prepared with the abilities or equipment this scenario requires of you.
As you replace them with more optimized characters, the party has a better chance to succeed, but it would be best to replace the whole party.
Well, I have quite a few scenarios before trying out Bonekeep. Maybe with an additional level (or two) it might make a difference.
I really hope you are wrong Blazej. As I said, I have no problems with a good challenge. In fact, I welcome it, but where it gets to a point that you 'need' an optimized character I just don't agree with that kind of design.
I guess I can always jump out of the scenario if I feel it's too tough, but I really don't want to put the other party members in a predicament like that.
|
|
Well, I have quite a few scenarios before trying out Bonekeep. Maybe with an additional level (or two) it might make a difference.
I really hope you are wrong Blazej. As I said, I have no problems with a good challenge. In fact, I welcome it, but where it gets to a point that you 'need' an optimized character I just don't agree with that kind of design.
I guess I can always jump out of the scenario if I feel it's too tough, but I really don't want to put the other party members in a predicament like that.
I just want to be clear since this is one of my least enjoyable scenarios and it is largely because my group was understaffed, under-equipped, and under-experienced. I wish that the organizers was upfront about the difficulty going in, because at least then I would feel like I willingly walked into it rather than feeling like I got tricked. And that would be my recommendations for the GMs here, be hard, but don't start when the scenario starts. Let the players know before they commit the game and be honest if you believe they have no chance. Otherwise you are just wasting the player's time.
=
Now, I want to keep something clear. You mentioned always being able to "jump out of the scenario." When I played at my recent event, we were given following the instruction. (Paraphrased) "Once you start this event, your character will not be able to leave unless all players (with living characters) agree to leave. You all stay or you all leave."
I had said a couple times during the dungeon that we were outmatched and that we should leave, but (beyond not wanting to abandon a group midsession) it wasn't an option for me to leave the table as I understood from that instruction from the GM.
=
If you are going int though, there are some things I can point to. I'm obviously not going to give specific item recommendations, but I recall this blog covering some random useful items for PFS. I really recommend it as the items are pretty cheap for what they do and they will cover a number of the situations that you would want to be prepared for (within this event and outside of it).
I would recommend asking other players for gear selections (either on the forums or before the event) because I'm sure that isn't a complete list.
|
|
I just want to be clear since this is one of my least enjoyable scenarios and it is largely because my group was understaffed, under-equipped, and under-experienced. I wish that the organizers was upfront about the difficulty going in, because at least then I would feel like I willingly walked into it rather than feeling like I got tricked. And that would be my recommendations for the GMs here, be hard, but don't start when the scenario starts. Let the players know before they commit the game and be honest if you believe they have no chance. Otherwise you are just wasting the player's time.
I just wanted to note that the FIRST box in the scenario instructs the GM to tell all the players about the perils, the harder difficulty and the possible rewards BEFORE starting the game. Any players not comfortable with that are asked, in the module, to find other games that may suit their style better. It is, literally, in the mod.
If your GM did not read you all the disclaimer and warning, then I'm sorry Blaze, s/he should have done so as the first thing before starting.
|
|
I just want to be clear since this is one of my least enjoyable scenarios and it is largely because my group was understaffed, under-equipped, and under-experienced. I wish that the organizers was upfront about the difficulty going in, because at least then I would feel like I willingly walked into it rather than feeling like I got tricked. And that would be my recommendations for the GMs here, be hard, but don't start when the scenario starts. Let the players know before they commit the game and be honest if you believe they have no chance. Otherwise you are just wasting the player's time.I just wanted to note that the FIRST box in the scenario instructs the GM to tell all the players about the perils, the harder difficulty and the possible rewards BEFORE starting the game. Any players not comfortable with that are asked, in the module, to find other games that may suit their style better. It is, literally, in the mod.
If your GM did not read you all the disclaimer and warning, then I'm sorry Blaze, s/he should have done so as the first thing before starting.
To be clear, I am pretty certain I heard that box text. He informed us about the perils, harder difficulty, and possible rewards, but I do not recall recommendations to find other games. Of course, I may have just forgotten that part.
So, I knew that it was going to be hard going in. I just thought it was four player hard, not six player hard with only four characters. The GM noted that he wanted to warn us away given our party composition and size, but only said this following the aftermath of the scenario. I wanted to hear that before going in.
To be clear, and maybe it is selfish, I wanted more than that box text. I wanted more context that GM, the event organizer, or other GMs that walked by could have provided. That the scenario wasn't designed for four players.
Now, I want to keep something clear. You mentioned always being able to "jump out of the scenario." When I played at my recent event, we were given following the instruction. (Paraphrased) "Once you start this event, your character will not be able to leave unless all players (with living characters) agree to leave. You all stay or you all leave."
I had said a couple times during the dungeon that we were outmatched and that we should leave, but (beyond not wanting to abandon a group midsession) it wasn't an option for me to leave the table as I understood from that instruction from the GM.
After rereading my event registration message for Bonekeep, I see what you mean, it does indicate you have to leave as a table. To be honest, it’s something I really was not planning on, anyways. Although, if we are doing very poorly, I may bring it up.
If you are going int though, there are some things I can point to. I'm obviously not going to give specific item recommendations, but I recall this blog covering some random useful items for PFS. I really recommend it as the items are pretty cheap for what they do and they will cover a number of the situations that you would want to be prepared for (within this event and outside of it).
I would recommend asking other players for gear selections (either on the forums or before the event) because I'm sure that isn't a complete list.
Thanks for the link! Will peruse through the blog post when I get the chance. Either way, I still have quite a bit of time to prepare for the event. And it looks like I will be able to go through more scenarios (before Bonekeep) as originally anticipated as I found a local game shop for PFS.
|
|
Although it won’t affect me (I’m bring a preset group into this event for Gencon), I hope for Gencon that Paizo will attempt to motivate players to pre-muster themselves into separate pregen and non-pregen tables.
I can see why people would want to play a pregen at this event. You want to see the coolness of the event without risking anything. And you know you will probably die. I get it and think it's a good idea. But just not at the expense of other players who might have 60+ hours of playing time invested.
I agree with you Jason, I do hope there is some sort of organization for pregen and non-pregen characters.
I plan to play my non-pregen character for Bonekeep, and if Paizo doesn't encourage mustering (seperating the two) for it, I will just do it on my own.
|
|
I had thought that players couldn't use the pre-gens for Bonekeep. That must have been a convention-specific rule that I interpreted as more official.There is no such text in the scenario and one of the tables of Bonekeep I ran at Winter Fantasy had 3 Pre-Gens.
They didn't do that well though.
We had one pre-gen with us at WF, and the guy was dead weight, and was essentially worthless except for the two hastes he cast, two hastes.. It still pisses me off that had we had a genuine sixth we would have finished all of bonekeep lvl 1.