Cleric Question - Faction vs. Deity


Pathfinder Society


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hi all,

I'm working on a new PFS cleric who is Chaotic Neutral and I am having trouble picking both a deity and a faction that match, thematically. I'm one of those type of players whose character mechanics match their background and it is causing a dilemma...oh the headaches caused by good roleplaying.

Background-wise, this character is a young cleric who freed himself from slavery by running away...very fast. He then found a home at a tavern run by halflings, who hired him as a busboy. This tavern was frequented by revolutionists and the boy became enthralled by their ideals. Now, barely adventuring age, the boy runs messages across Golarion to help his fellow revolutionists. He is willing to face danger and do whatever it takes to prove his loyalty to the older members of the revolutionist faction.

My character is a "fast, mobile cleric" and has the Travel/Exploration and Revolution/Liberation domains - I haven't decided if I want to take the subdomains or not. So, the way I figure, my deity choices are either Desna or Sun Wukong.

So, which combo of Deity and Faction would work best for this concept?

I am new to PFS so any and all explanations would be appreciated.

Thanks,


Andoran's your faction.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/55/55/5

CAW! Definitely andor. You can even become a tiller in the halflings bellflower network for escaped slaves if you want to pay it forward.

4/5 *

I agree, you just perfectly described an Andoran Cleric of Desna with Bellflower connections.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Andoran would be the best fit. I like the character idea.


Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Why Desna over Sun Wukong?

Sovereign Court 1/5

Sun Wukong is an Eastern Deity so that is probably what jumps out. Unless you want to make that part of your backstory, he likely doesn't have many followers around the Inner Sea.

You should read up on him more here: Link. I do remember you saying you wanted to be a Caydenite at one point, so Sun Wukong has the drunkenness thing going for him.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern

Milani is another idea for a deity, although I don't know if she has those domains.

Neat character concept!

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Unfortunately Chaldira Zuzaristan doesn't have those domains, but else sounded like a good fit.


@ RtnofMax - I was thinking of playing a Caydenite last week. However, the trying to straighten out the combined rules of Reach, Bodyguard, and the Whimsy subdomain was giving me a headache, so, I'm opting for something simpler. Besides, for Whimsy, I had to go Separatist and that archetype didn't fit my character concept. So, I dropped it.

@ Mike - Milani works great. However, she does not have the Travel domain so I would have to take Separatist if I wanted to do that. And, since this cleric build is based off of high speed and freedom of movement, I am not willing to give up half of my uses/day of domain powers.

After reading more about the "real" Sun Wukong (a character from a classic Chinese epic), I found that my character's fighting style - which uses a combo of fast movement and acrobatics to get in a position to buff allies w/ spells and the Bodyguard feat - fits more in line with Sun Wukong than with Desna. Plus, Sun Wukong has the booze fluff, which is always fun :)

Updated Background:

This human boy cleric was once a Tain Xai slave being transported on a ship, owned by the Lantern Lodge, bound for Golarion. His only possession was a small stone necklace of Sun Wukonng. When the ship reached land, the boy escaped buy running...very fast. He then found a home in a tavern owned by halflings, where he became their buss boy. The tavern - whose owners were Tillers of the Bellflower Network - was frequented by Andoran revolutionists and the boy became enthralled with their ideals. Now 15, and barely old enough for an adventure, this boy uses the borrowed speed and agility of Sun Wukong to run messages for the Andoran revolutionists across Golarion.

There, I think I have tied up all of the loose ends. Again, thanks for your help. Thoughts?


@ Corvus - what do you mean by "pay it forward" to become a member of the Bellflower Netework?

Sovereign Court 3/5

"Pay it forward," being the term meaning to do good things for others (as opposed to the original good act's enactor) as a kind of "payment" for an initial good act.


Ah, so its not a term used to indicate: "use faction points yet accumulates for a special character boon"

I'm PFs, can I spend faction points to become an official member of the Sunflower Network?

Sovereign Court 3/5

There is no existing boon for it that I know of, but I do know it is the legal-for-pfs Bellflower Tiller prestige class in Paths of Prestige (though it required a CG alignment and may not fit your planned build.)

5/5

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Problem: Why would a Chaotic Neutral care about anyone else's freedom but his own?


Fair enough. I took a look at the Bellflower PrC but, like you said, it doesn't match my character's mechanics. Oh well.

Again, a big thanks to everyone's help.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Soluzar wrote:
Problem: Why would a Chaotic Neutral care about anyone else's freedom but his own?
  • Because by maximizing others' freedom, he maximizes his own?
  • Because he's destabalizing a lawful organization, making it harder to exert its influence on others?
  • Because why he might now feel any sense of loyalty, he knows others may and if they 'owe him' it might come in handy?
  • Because vests don't have sleeves? (for the really CN folks)


  • 1 person marked this as a favorite.

    I'd like to offer another option for alignment. As a silver crusader you would have an attachment to a religion organization that usually does good things, and you would be doing Andoran missions in the older scenarios. Mostly extending this option because sometimes the Andoran faction isn't the nicest around and if you hate doing some questionable things its good to have second options.

    5/5

    I'll also gently remind you to have your additional resources ready to go, as most GMs will not know who Sun WuKong is. It sounds like you will need either Dragon Empires Primer or Dragon Empires Gazetteer, plus the APG if you use subdomains.

    Also, it's "Tian Xia" :-)

    Dark Archive

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    I really have a hard time meshing with the concept of picking your domains, and then your deity. It seems to me that deity choice should be the most important choice when playing a cleric.

    Sovereign Court 1/5

    Some people find their fun in creating fluff then applying mechanics; some find fun in apply mechanics and then building their fluff around that. As long as someone is having fun, that's all that matters and it's not your place to judge.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    MrSin wrote:
    I'd like to offer another option for alignment. As a silver crusader you would have an attachment to a religion organization that usually does good things, and you would be doing Andoran missions in the older scenarios. Mostly extending this option because sometimes the Andoran faction isn't the nicest around and if you hate doing some questionable things its good to have second options.

    Thanks for the suggestion, but I want my character to be able to do questionably things. I see this cleric as a boy who - for better or worse - has been "brain washed" - for lack of a better word - by the revolutionists he believes in. Part of the RP fun with this character will be that his missions will force him to question himself and those whomever he thought were infallible.

    To that end, maybe Chaotic Good would be more appropriate. As a cleric of Sun Wukong, my alignment options are Chaotic Good, Neural, and Chaotic Neutral


    Nani Pratt wrote:

    I'll also gently remind you to have your additional resources ready to go, as most GMs will not know who Sun WuKong is. It sounds like you will need either Dragon Empires Primer or Dragon Empires Gazetteer, plus the APG if you use subdomains.

    Also, it's "Tian Xia" :-)

    Yes. Thanks for the reminder. Are printouts from the SRD and other sources acceptable?


    Victor Zajic wrote:
    I really have a hard time meshing with the concept of picking your domains, and then your deity. It seems to me that deity choice should be the most important choice when playing a cleric.

    Well, actually, for me, it depends. With this build, I started with fluff and then added mechanics. But then I started researching cleric builds and changed my mind fifty times...and here we are ;)


    LibraryRPGamer wrote:

    Yes. Thanks for the reminder. Are printouts from the SRD and other sources acceptable?

    Well since you don't actually have to won the content in question, it seems fine to me.

    The only time when you need the source is when your character is being audited, and then you can borrow other people's stuff for it

    Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

    LibraryRPGamer wrote:
    Nani Pratt wrote:

    I'll also gently remind you to have your additional resources ready to go, as most GMs will not know who Sun WuKong is. It sounds like you will need either Dragon Empires Primer or Dragon Empires Gazetteer, plus the APG if you use subdomains.

    Also, it's "Tian Xia" :-)

    Yes. Thanks for the reminder. Are printouts from the SRD and other sources acceptable?

    SRD: no.

    By other sources if you mean PDFs, copies of the pages from the book, etc. Yes.

    Per: Additional resources.

    Additional Resources wrote:
    In order to utilize content from an Additional Resource, a player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of it, or a printout of the relevant pages from it, as well as a copy of the current version of the Additional Resources list.

    So Herolab, no.

    Aside: Proof of ownership (outside the above) is not a GM's duty to police, IIRC. If my niece and nephew have prints from my PDF of the APG, that's fine. It might be different for VOs.

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Bearded Ben wrote:
    Andoran's your faction.

    Andoran's a great faction for you, you get to claim to be the good guys and they're probably the most bloodthirsty of them all. Full win either way. Just remember the standard part of any Andoran's kit... a waterproof bag for the heads you'll be asked to collect.

    Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

    @LazarX

    Heh, that's one reason I rag on Andoran, and adlib mission briefings.

    "You will need to clean the dungeon of rats, bats, goblins, Andorans, and any other vermin you find there."

    "You will need to keep the goblins safe, it's not like they're Andorans or anything."

    etc. etc. :-)

    Scarab Sages 5/5

    ok, I'm arriving late to the party, but from your original write-up I thought you were going to say Cayden.

    Travel, freeing slaves, tavern? heck, Cayden's temple is a tavern!

    read the fluff in Gods and Magic - he's clerics are said to be able to cast knock to open chains and free slaves?!!

    Or are you passing him by as being overdone (to many of them around?)

    Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/55/55/5

    LazarX wrote:
    Bearded Ben wrote:
    Andoran's your faction.
    Andoran's a great faction for you, you get to claim to be the good guys and they're probably the most bloodthirsty of them all. Full win either way. Just remember the standard part of any Andoran's kit... a waterproof bag for the heads you'll be asked to collect.

    At least we give them a quick clean death by beheading. The silver crusade just nags them to death about anything fun until they give up on life, now THATS evil!

    5/5

    Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    Matthew Morris wrote:
    Soluzar wrote:
    Problem: Why would a Chaotic Neutral care about anyone else's freedom but his own?
  • Because by maximizing others' freedom, he maximizes his own?
  • Because he's destabalizing a lawful organization, making it harder to exert its influence on others?
  • Because why he might now feel any sense of loyalty, he knows others may and if they 'owe him' it might come in handy?
  • Because vests don't have sleeves? (for the really CN folks)
  • -A CN generally wouldn't care about the freedom of others. If he did he would be CG.

    -For a CN it would be more likely to be a self serving motive of some kind
    -That makes the most sense.
    -I do not subscribe to the Gygax definition of CN.

    Dark Archive

    CWheezy wrote:
    LibraryRPGamer wrote:

    Yes. Thanks for the reminder. Are printouts from the SRD and other sources acceptable?

    Well since you don't actually have to won the content in question, it seems fine to me.

    The only time when you need the source is when your character is being audited, and then you can borrow other people's stuff for it

    This is pretty much completely untrue. You need legal sources for your non core assumption abilities, and you shouldn't depend on other people to happen to have the books you need. Because if they don't, you could just be out of luck.

    Print out from the SRD or even PRD are not allowed. Printouts from PDFs you legally purchased are. If you don't have a legal pdf printout or a hard copy of the book, a GM would be completely within their rights to say you can't play the character. Choosing not to bring legal sources for your abilities is also a jerk move towards the GM. For someone who is volunteering their time to entertain you, putting them in the position where they have to choose between enforcing the rules of the game and making sure your feelings don't get hurt is really very rude.

    The SRD isn't even a reliable source for information anymore. because they started selling stuff on the website, they can't use any of Paizo golarion world terms, and the site has always had errors, and includes third party stuff. You really shouldn't use the SRD when making characters for PFS.

    Sovereign Court 1/5

    Soluzar wrote:
    Matthew Morris wrote:
    Soluzar wrote:
    Problem: Why would a Chaotic Neutral care about anyone else's freedom but his own?
  • Because by maximizing others' freedom, he maximizes his own?
  • Because he's destabalizing a lawful organization, making it harder to exert its influence on others?
  • Because why he might now feel any sense of loyalty, he knows others may and if they 'owe him' it might come in handy?
  • Because vests don't have sleeves? (for the really CN folks)
  • -A CN generally wouldn't care about the freedom of others. If he did he would be CG.

    -For a CN it would be more likely to be a self serving motive of some kind
    -That makes the most sense.
    -I do not subscribe to the Gygax definition of CN.

    The only thing I can add the alignment discussion is just the recommendation to choose carefully. Alignment can go ignored in many campaigns, but it's become pretty important in recent scenarios.

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Soluzar wrote:


    -I do not subscribe to the Gygax definition of CN.

    You do need to pay attention to the Pathfinder definition of it though.


    Victor Zajic wrote:
    CWheezy wrote:
    LibraryRPGamer wrote:

    Yes. Thanks for the reminder. Are printouts from the SRD and other sources acceptable?

    Well since you don't actually have to won the content in question, it seems fine to me.

    The only time when you need the source is when your character is being audited, and then you can borrow other people's stuff for it

    This is pretty much completely untrue. You need legal sources for your non core assumption abilities, and you shouldn't depend on other people to happen to have the books you need. Because if they don't, you could just be out of luck.

    Print out from the SRD or even PRD are not allowed. Printouts from PDFs you legally purchased are. If you don't have a legal pdf printout or a hard copy of the book, a GM would be completely within their rights to say you can't play the character. Choosing not to bring legal sources for your abilities is also a jerk move towards the GM. For someone who is volunteering their time to entertain you, putting them in the position where they have to choose between enforcing the rules of the game and making sure your feelings don't get hurt is really very rude.

    The SRD isn't even a reliable source for information anymore. because they started selling stuff on the website, they can't use any of Paizo golarion world terms, and the site has always had errors, and includes third party stuff. You really shouldn't use the SRD when making characters for PFS.

    I just bought a copy of the other sources I needed. I had everything other than the Dragon Empires Primer...good buy, really.


    Victor Zajic wrote:

    This is pretty much completely untrue.

    Mark Moreland says hello:

    http://paizo.com/threads/gbikkij1/favorites?Additional-Resources-Updates

    This means that you don't need to own it, if you have a nice friend you can use his.


    Soluzar wrote:
    Matthew Morris wrote:
    Soluzar wrote:
    Problem: Why would a Chaotic Neutral care about anyone else's freedom but his own?
  • Because by maximizing others' freedom, he maximizes his own?
  • Because he's destabalizing a lawful organization, making it harder to exert its influence on others?
  • Because why he might now feel any sense of loyalty, he knows others may and if they 'owe him' it might come in handy?
  • Because vests don't have sleeves? (for the really CN folks)
  • -A CN generally wouldn't care about the freedom of others. If he did he would be CG.

    -For a CN it would be more likely to be a self serving motive of some kind
    -That makes the most sense.
    -I do not subscribe to the Gygax definition of CN.

    CN = Mutual benefit?

    My character runs messages for the Bellflower Network. In return, he gains protection. What is the best way to hide from his ex-slaves? Work for his enemy's enemy.

    I just don't want this character to be the mercenary type, which are most CN characters, I guess.

    Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Cleric Question - Faction vs. Deity All Messageboards

    Want to post a reply? Sign in.
    Recent threads in Pathfinder Society