Counter to True Seeing


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

My character has the lich template now. I dont want to give up the many diplomatic interactions with the human world. How to I effectively shroud myself so that I cant be discovered?

I already have a ring of mind shielding, which protects against attempts to detect thoughts, discern lies, or discern alighnment.

Is alter self the only spell that changes you into something else? Does that cover all other aspects of detection that someone could use to discover me?

What about detect undead?

How do you counter true seeing?

Lantern Lodge

A nondetection spell for your detect undead issue: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/n/nondetection

Alter self would be spotted by a true seeing as its a polymorph and true seeing pierces polymorph.

As for true seeing, the only way to counter is to make an extraordinarily good mundane disguise as true seeing can not pierce mundane disguises.

Wear multilayer clothing and possibly a mask (like a full covering porcelain mask) and perfume/cologne for the smell or get deodorizing agents to prevent people from smelling you.


Mind blank

Liberty's Edge

Wish.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

True Seeing wrote:
True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises

If you don't already have one, buy/craft an INT headband, keyed to the Disguise skill. Then buy/craft an item that gives you a bonus to Disguise checks (something equivalent to a ring of swimming, etc). Next chance you get, take Skill Focus (disguise), or make an item which grants that feat. Get a circlet of persuasion. Get a really, really nice quality (but completely nonmagical) disguise kit.

I'm guessing you're at least what, 15th level? Taking the measures I listed would therefore nab you a +31 to Disguise. If you have enough time and an observer you trust, Take 20 to disguise yourself (otherwise, just Take 10). Now you have a fantastic disguise which isn't pierced by true seeing, will convince pretty much everyone who doesn't have a reason to suspect anything, and if someone *does* suspect, they'll have to beat a DC 51 (or 41) Perception check.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a new homebrew villain to write up... ;)


A thin sheet of lead.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
A thin sheet of lead.

True seeing doesn't work like detection spells. Funnily enough, this actually means that a thin (but opaque) sheet of anything will block it.

Silver Crusade

Gentle repose will keep you looking fresh as the day you died, true seeing wouldn't see through it because it is your natural state.

Lantern Lodge

You could do mind blank, but it is a very high level spell and I would figure that using nondetection would be easier for you. A level 3 spell everyday vs a level 8 spell everyday.

Unless you know people are trying to scry you, every day.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Technically Gentle Repose wouldn't work, since it targets a corpse as an object, not an undead creature. Else, just about every magically inclined undead beastie would walk around looking totally fresh (if pale) and just making a mess of things in town, since 'true seeing' wouldn't reveal them.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4

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One technique I like is to make a magic item with a permanent widened (or larger) fog effect and then make that fog effect invisible. That way anyone using see invisibility or true seeing is confounded by a concealment effect. Obviously they'll know something's up, but they won't know what or exactly where. If you can't swing a mundane disguise, it's not a bad way to go.

Any other layered effect can also work, such as an invisible glyph or other trap that is only set off by someone trying to check you out with a divination spell. Combine it with enchantment effects to do the "not the lich you're looking for".


Matt Duval wrote:

One technique I like is to make a magic item with a permanent widened (or larger) fog effect and then make that fog effect invisible. That way anyone using see invisibility or true seeing is confounded by a concealment effect. Obviously they'll know something's up, but they won't know what or exactly where. If you can't swing a mundane disguise, it's not a bad way to go.

Any other layered effect can also work, such as an invisible glyph or other trap that is only set off by someone trying to check you out with a divination spell. Combine it with enchantment effects to do the "not the lich you're looking for".

That's so mean... I'm totally going to have to do this to my players.


Misdirection could do it


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You could take a leaf from Babylon V and greet everyone in some sort of an encounter suit. Add a few lines like 'the avalanche has begun, it is too late for the pebbles to vote'.


well it can work the gentle repose if u applied it before u become lich...


jumpydady wrote:
well it can work the gentle repose if u applied it before u become lich...

Nah... it only works on corpses. You'd have to (a) spend some time dead (don't know -- lichdom may have a dead period?) and (b) have someone else cast it on you, as a corpse. But if the transformation is live-->undead, you never qualify as a target.


EWHM wrote:
You could take a leaf from Babylon V and greet everyone in some sort of an encounter suit. Add a few lines like 'the avalanche has begun, it is too late for the pebbles to vote'.

Heh, great minds.

Quote:
Technically Gentle Repose wouldn't work, since it targets a corpse as an object, not an undead creature. Else, just about every magically inclined undead beastie would walk around looking totally fresh (if pale) and just making a mess of things in town, since 'true seeing' wouldn't reveal them.

Technically does not work, but has been portrayed as working in numerous instances in 2E and 3.X. Not sure about Pathfinder.


humm i always thought to become lich u have to die first.. so i thought soemoen could cast it on u while ur dead but on process of becoming lich..


It's a lich! Mind Blank.

Extended Mind Blank if you don't feel like casting daily.

If you wanted to look nice, you could cast Veil, I suppose, or, better yet, cast Magic Jar and use an actual, ordinary person when you need to venture into the world.


Whitefox-san wrote:

A nondetection spell for your detect undead issue: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/n/nondetection

Alter self would be spotted by a true seeing as its a polymorph and true seeing pierces polymorph.

As for true seeing, the only way to counter is to make an extraordinarily good mundane disguise as true seeing can not pierce mundane disguises.

Wear multilayer clothing and possibly a mask (like a full covering porcelain mask) and perfume/cologne for the smell or get deodorizing agents to prevent people from smelling you.

I actually had an NPC mummy do this, taking a book out of Baldwin IV (see Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut) and telling people he had an uncurable case of wasting sickness akin to leprosy. Players assumed he was an oracle with the wasting curse.

Sovereign Court

What uber responses, thanks guys. Esp Jiggy. going to go that way.


Fire immunity and a dozen invisible Explosive Runes on your body.


:)

I'm reading thru this thinking but what if I'm actually an evil Ranger Lich, lot of folks assuming the Lich is a wizard/arcane caster. A 20th level Ranger (favored enemy human, of course) might be a rude surprise when the PC's go to melee the lich. (Hi! I'm a Master Hunter and you are my favored enemy 'save or die')

A very high level of skill in disguise (mundane disguise) is definitely the way to go if you want to beat True Seeing. A lot of Bluff probably isn't a bad idea either.

Edit: note that for a Lich Disguise and several other skills become class skills as well. Heh, a Lich with a +8 racial bonus to Stealth and Hide in Plain Sight to boot.

Scarab Sages

HangarFlying wrote:
Wish.

Mind Blank > Wish

Mind Blank is an absolute. It blocks all divination, including wishes, used to reveal information.


Artanthos wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
Wish.

Mind Blank > Wish

Mind Blank is an absolute. It blocks all divination, including wishes, used to reveal information.

Yes and no.

If the wish is being used to duplicate another spell, then mind blank would beat it.

But...

If you worded a wish in a way that was meant to give you very specific information in a way that gets around mind blank, then wish might win. It would all depend on exactly how the wish is worded.

Scarab Sages

Mind Blank wrote:
Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to gain information about the target.


Invest in unguents of timelessness or unguents of revivification.(both powered by gentle repose btw) and a cowled robe and/or a mask and gloves

Layering illusions or magical effects could work. A Many layered Veil perhaps?


Artanthos wrote:
Mind Blank wrote:
Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to gain information about the target.

As I said, it really depends on how the wish is worded. In theory, a wish could allow you to communicate with Eliminster, who would then proceed to tell you what you wanted to know, and he would know because he is Eliminster(IE Ultimate God character).

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