Cyclops: The Worst Leader (an interview)


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British Betsy >>> Ninja Betsy. Completely in agreement.


You two are on your own in that. Ninja psylock is far too beloved to be disloged.


I'm with them on British Betsy.


You three are on your own. Ninja psylock is far too beloved to be disloged.

Silver Crusade

I think Psylock is a very cool character.

But why on earth did they say that she was Betsy? She is cool enough in her own right, without having to steal and lose Betsy in order to realise the Psylock concept!


Jim Lee wanted to re-envision the character when he started doing the art. His Ninja Hooker is more overtly sexual. But the original actually had some personality. And the armor was cool in its own right.

Dark Archive

I like them both, and with the Kwannon thing, they had the chance to have their cake and eat it too, only they decided to tie it into that awful Legacy Virus storyline that has since been more or less undone anyway (since both Ilyanna and Peter are alive again...).

With Betsy's psychic butterflies, and Jean's fiery eagles, I was kind of hoping they'd run with other telepaths having some sort of animal or nature themed psychic manifestations. A telepath manifesting serpents of psychic energy, or a dragon, or a tiger, or a wolf, when they activate their telepathy, could be cool.

Another plus to bringing Brit-Betsy back would be that Doug is alive again (and adult-ish), and their scandalous May/September thing could heat up.

Brit-Betsy also deserves credit for being one of the very few mutant / super-hero types who lacked any sort of defensive abilities, and so *wore freaking body armor.* It's beyond silly that Cyclops, Banshee, Storm, etc. have survived all these years of people shooting at them, when their defensive power is 'hide behind Colossus.'


Banshees been dead for a while now.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
VM mercenario wrote:
Set wrote:
GreenDragon1133 wrote:
I'd rather they eliminate the current, and replace him with the original.

If they can get rid of the Civil-War-era Reed Richards and Tony Stark who went about fifty times past anything Cyclops has done, that would be cool, too.

And Civil War Captain America and One More Day Spiderman...

Can we just reboot the whole universe back to before Avengers Dissassemble?

It doesn't matter that much, every few years, they'll reboot the whole thing whether you like it or not.

Dark Archive

Freehold DM wrote:
Banshees been dead for a while now.

Spoiler:

As of this weeks Uncanny Avengers, that might not be forever.

I did find it amusing when they made a futile attempt to claim that the X-Men's uniforms actually were body armor, and several of the X-ladies continued to go into combat in bikinis. (Good thing nobody ever thought to shoot at the 50% of her body that was exposed!)

In my head, I pretend that the Legion of Super-Heroes ladies who go into firefights in bikinis (like most incarnations of Shadow Lass or Dream Girl) are wearing 30th century impact and energy-mitigating body armor that is transparent. They just *look* mostly naked. :)


Set wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Banshees been dead for a while now.

** spoiler omitted **

I did find it amusing when they made a futile attempt to claim that the X-Men's uniforms actually were body armor, and several of the X-ladies continued to go into combat in bikinis. (Good thing nobody ever thought to shoot at the 50% of her body that was exposed!)

In my head, I pretend that the Legion of Super-Heroes ladies who go into firefights in bikinis (like most incarnations of Shadow Lass or Dream Girl) are wearing 30th century impact and energy-mitigating body armor that is transparent. They just *look* mostly naked. :)

Given that they do canonically have transparent spacesuits that appear when needed and don't interfere with powers, it's not too much of a stretch.

And which X-Men were still going into action in bikinis when they were claiming the suits were armor? Storm had the skimpiest costume for a long time, but most of the other woman had full body suits and even Storm wore a full suit after her punk phase.

Dark Archive

thejeff wrote:
Given that they do canonically have transparent spacesuits that appear when needed and don't interfere with powers, it's not too much of a stretch.

True, true. One wonders how the transsuits work in conjunction with shrinking powers, shapeshifting or shooting energy blasts out of your eyes or hands (or remain intact after you get shot), but, eh, it's comics! Whatever they are made out of, maybe it regenerates!

Quote:
And which X-Men were still going into action in bikinis when they were claiming the suits were armor? Storm had the skimpiest costume for a long time, but most of the other woman had full body suits and even Storm wore a full suit after her punk phase.

Storm and Jean (when she was alive) had changed to full bodysuits, and Rogue pretty much always covered up, but Psylocke had changed from actual metal armor to a bikini. I don't actually remember if Jubilee had bare arms at that time... Even before the diamond form thing, Emma Frost tended to have bare arms and shoulders, at the minimum (and, somewhat paradoxically, seemed to wear *more* clothing, after gaining a bulletproof form!).

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

The blue and yellow uniforms during/after Dissolution and Rebirth in the 90's were armor. Forge designed them.

Aside, I like Forge a lot, and am glad to see him back after the character derailment/death in Ghost Box. Hopefully Bishop will get similar redemption.

Betsy's wearing clothes now, and it looks like Uncanny X-force is building some character advancment too.*

Rant though, does anyone do their research?

X-force spoilers

Spoiler:
Does anyone do research anymore? Why is Kara (Purple Girl/Persuasion) in prison? If it's because of the Alpha Flight aborted arc, she was under mind control. That much was clear. Kara's never been a villian, and if anything was trying to NOT be her father.

And if she's in jail, where the hell is her mom? Or Madison Jefferies? (Who had guardianship in the old series) He loved Kara like a daughter. I'm assuming she's in her 20's now given she was 13 when she appeared. That pegs her about the same age as the Illyana, Doug, and Rahne. But even if she's not a minor, she's an Alphan and a Canadian, so why is she apparently in a US prison?

That's before we get into that her power doesn't work like that. It's mind control, not suggestion, and it turns its subjects purple (a difference between her and her father). It's also pheremone based.

Sorry, Kara was one of my favorite Beta Flight members, the scene where she's introduced, trying so hard to 'wash the purple off' as a scared 13 year old made me instantly sympathetic for her.

I'd read that the reason a lot of heroes wore spandex like outfits in the past was it's easier to draw nudes. But yes, I agree that the modern hero should be wearing some level of protection. Heck, when I saw Dani out running around with the (bad stereotype) bow and arrow**, I was like "Why?"

*

Spoiler:
We'll see if it lasts. Pet peeve on writing, why the masked obscenity? REally? You're so limited that the only way you can make it dark and edgy is to use naughty words?

**
Spoiler:
Unlike Hawkeye, Dani's use of the bow and arrow *is* a stereotype. She did use a bow for a while with the MLF, but that's because she was focusing powers through it. In her time with the reintigrated New Mutants (and into Fearless Defenders) She was/is SHIELD trained and proficient with Shield Weapons. She also was on an island with Magneto (who is a Physicist) Dr. Nemisis (who is a Nazi genius) and MADISON FRAKKING JEFFERIES (who's credits include using a VW bug to single handedly take down Omega Flight, redesigning and using the Box Armor, and rebuilding (and improving) the Vindicator suit.) So when you're sending the unpowered Dani Moonstar out to deal with mutant issues, do you give her a SHIELD hand weapon? No. Do you have Hank McCoy call up Abigail Brand and ask for a spare SWORD tech outfit? No. Do you have Madison Jefferies build her some sort of armor/force field combo? No. You give her spandex and a curved stick, to launch straight sticks (and not even 'special' sticks) at a target. It would be like Bobbie launching Soccer balls at bad guys, or Sam carrying around a jug of moonshine to bash Sentinels over the head with.


Naughty words? You make me laugh sometimes man.


Also, What did you think of the whole death bear thing with Dani?


Superman was drawn with a costume inspired by the old circus strongman suits, and I think this helped influence later heroes. The reason for the shorts on the outside is that tights back then had a tendency to rip.

Count me as another who preferred armored Betsy to the sex ninja version.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Freehold DM wrote:
Also, What did you think of the whole death bear thing with Dani?

The Demon Bear tied directly into her past. I am unsure if the new bear is the same as hers.

And yes, 'naughty words' In the comics I'm reading, it's blacked out text, but that makes it sillier. IT's like the writer is being lazy. "I'm being edgy and cool by making the characters swear, but I'm not going to show you what they're saying."

It's like Groucho Marx said about humor. "If you have to use profanity to be funny, it's not funny."

Silver Crusade

Grey Lensman wrote:

Superman was drawn with a costume inspired by the old circus strongman suits, and I think this helped influence later heroes. The reason for the shorts on the outside is that tights back then had a tendency to rip.

Count me as another who preferred armored Betsy to the sex ninja version.

The Phantom is credited as the first comic character to have a skin-tight suit, and he had his shorts on the outside.

He was also the first to wear a mask where his eyes looked plain white, instead of like...well, eyes!

He had no superpowers though. His shtick was that he was the immortal 'Ghost Who Walks' who had been alive for centuries, but he was the latest in a series of fathers/sons who had used the same identity to keep the legend going.

This is why he is ignored in favour of Superman when it comes to being 'the first superhero'; he had no superpowers!


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
The Phantom is credited as the first comic character to have a skin-tight suit, and he had his shorts on the outside.

I wasn't aware that the Phantom preceded Superman, I was only going from what I knew of the Superman costume (which I assume inspired a lot of later superheroes) from interviews I have read. But comic history (and the stories behind how our favorite saga/trainwrecks happened) can be just as interesting as the stories themselves.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Also, What did you think of the whole death bear thing with Dani?

The Demon Bear tied directly into her past. I am unsure if the new bear is the same as hers.

And yes, 'naughty words' In the comics I'm reading, it's blacked out text, but that makes it sillier. IT's like the writer is being lazy. "I'm being edgy and cool by making the characters swear, but I'm not going to show you what they're saying."

It's like Groucho Marx said about humor. "If you have to use profanity to be funny, it's not funny."

you realize marx made his career on pretty dirty double entendres, yes?


The Phantom didn't have overt powers like flight or laserbeam eyes. But he had most of the same abilities as Batman, and it looks like Animal Friendship in most versions I've encountered.

Swearing in comics is fine - if it fits the character. Lobo and Wolverine should definitely be depicted as swearing. Then again Lobo's favorite profanity is "Frag". I also enjoy when writers invent swears for their setting, like:
Grife (Legion of Super-Heroes)
Shock (Marvel 2099)
Drokk it! (2000 AD)
Whiskers (Thundercats - reboot)

Silver Crusade

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
The Phantom didn't have overt powers like flight or laserbeam eyes. But he had most of the same abilities as Batman, and it looks like Animal Friendship in most versions I've encountered.

He had a trained horse and a trained wolf.

Cool, but not exactly super.

And Batman doesn't have any powers either.


Yet Batman is considered a superhero. Which was where I was going with that. I think the key is that Batman is so big a $$ Draw that National Periodicals renamed itself after Batman (Detective Comics = DC). The Phantom somewhat less so, as he has bounced from publisher to publisher. I think Dynamite has him currently - along with all the classic pulp heroes that DC just dumped.
That said, the Billy Zane, Treat Williams, Phantom movie was a fun adventure, and I enjoyed it far more than half the live action Batman movies.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Freehold DM wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:


It's like Groucho Marx said about humor. "If you have to use profanity to be funny, it's not funny."

you realize marx made his career on pretty dirty double entendres, yes?

Exactly. He didn't need profanity to be funny.

"We took some pictures of the native girls but they weren't developed. We're going back in a few weeks." is funny without being profanity.

"We took some #%#%$% pictures of some $$#$^#%^ #$#$#$#v girls. They didn't have $^#$^#$^#^ so we're going back." Is just crude and relying on profanity for shock value.


GreenDragon1133 wrote:

The Phantom didn't have overt powers like flight or laserbeam eyes. But he had most of the same abilities as Batman, and it looks like Animal Friendship in most versions I've encountered.

Swearing in comics is fine - if it fits the character. Lobo and Wolverine should definitely be depicted as swearing. Then again Lobo's favorite profanity is "Frag". I also enjoy when writers invent swears for their setting, like:
Grife (Legion of Super-Heroes)
Shock (Marvel 2099)
Drokk it! (2000 AD)
Whiskers (Thundercats - reboot)

I really like grus from the video game infinite space.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:


It's like Groucho Marx said about humor. "If you have to use profanity to be funny, it's not funny."

you realize marx made his career on pretty dirty double entendres, yes?

Exactly. He didn't need profanity to be funny.

"We took some pictures of the native girls but they weren't developed. We're going back in a few weeks." is funny without being profanity.

"We took some #%#%$% pictures of some $$#$^#%^ #$#$#$#v girls. They didn't have $^#$^#$^#^ so we're going back." Is just crude and relying on profanity for shock value.

that's a soft one. I've heard worse things from him. I'm not sure why he is heralded as some g rated genius when the man was quite dirty, especially considering the time period.

Silver Crusade

GreenDragon1133 wrote:

Yet Batman is considered a superhero. Which was where I was going with that. I think the key is that Batman is so big a $$ Draw that National Periodicals renamed itself after Batman (Detective Comics = DC). The Phantom somewhat less so, as he has bounced from publisher to publisher. I think Dynamite has him currently - along with all the classic pulp heroes that DC just dumped.

That said, the Billy Zane, Treat Williams, Phantom movie was a fun adventure, and I enjoyed it far more than half the live action Batman movies.

First published:-

• Phantom: February 1936

• Superman: June 1938

• Batman: May 1939


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:


This is why he is ignored in favour of Superman when it comes to being 'the first superhero'; he had no superpowers!

Plus, the Phantom first appeared in comic strips, Superman first appeared in comic books. Superman is the first comic book superhero. Depending on how you define the term, Gilgamesh might be the first auperhero written about.

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