NPC building 101


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I have been playing these games for years and GMing 3x and PF throughout the past decade but yet I'm worse than my grampa when it comes to building NPCs. I do it all by hand or in form-fillable character sheets.

How do you all build yours? Do you use HeroLab or anything else? And when you go into it do you have a fully fleshed out idea or do you just tinker with one aspect?

For example I had a party that just had terrible will saves so I wanted a fey NPC that took advantage of that vulnerability. I ended up with a sprite sorceress (feyblooded) 4 with a focus on enchantment who dazed/confused/charmed her way into a near TPK.

Shadow Lodge

NPC building is something I find incredibly tedious. Since switching to PF, I just pull stats from the Game Mastery Guide and NPC Codex. Re-skin/fudge as needed. All my NPCs cast spontaneously, even if they're wizards or clerics. Sometimes I'll tweak stats in the middle of a fight if things seem too lopsided either way. My players never know the difference.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

You just gotta learn to love it I guess!

I enjoy creating NPCs a lot. However, I don't follow the established NPC creation rules in the Core Rulebook. I tend to build them like PCs. I often roll for ability scores, and generate magic items randomly. Or I'll take a concept and see how far I can work it (the concept might be a particular feat, or a more esoteric or story driven idea).

In the end, I invariably end up with relatively over or under powered NPCs, so I give them an objective once over and adjust the CR as appropriate. And like Kazred suggests, if in play I realise I've got it wrong, I can make small adjustments on the fly, though I rarely have to resort to this.

Of course, the above refers to important NPCs that'll have some bearing on the campaign. With random 'extras' I just make up info on the spot and make sure I write it down for consistency (e.g. that random commoner's Perception bonus is +2. Make a note.). The books Kazred mentioned are also useful references.

Silver Crusade

The NPC creation method set forth in the core is something I've increasingly found wanting.

As NPCs are the primary source for players to get their hands on magic (barring the shop, or the horde of items) approaches, this results in an annoying circumstance where NPCs have boring items, and then players have boring items and everyone gets to sit around and smoke cigars and comment on how happy they are that WBL is being obeyed.

Also, going off of the NPCs from the NPC Codex (which I love, don't get me wrong), their ACs tend to be hideously low for the people they're expected to go up against. I honestly don't get it.

From a stat standpoint, I see no problem with it. BUt in general I don't support the idea that most NPCs the players run into are their intrinsic inferiors, who are also under-equipped.

I honestly think the game does want a push towards monstrous opponents as opposed to NPC foes from level 1-20, but that just might be my own cynicism talking.

I do tend to sit down, and open my books when I do them, admittedly I do this as a casual activity to build an 'NPC bank,' so I have people to fall back on. I tend to built them around a feat or a combat idea I'd think was interesting, but I also 'build to concept.'

Back in 3e I used to use automated NPC generators, and I find it unfortunate they don't seem to have some nice java based goodies for that today.

It resulted in fun stuff like kobold barbarians and half-elf sorcerors who had greatsword proficiencies. Not optimized, but man, it was interesting.


Mark Hoover wrote:

How do you all build yours? Do you use HeroLab or anything else? And when you go into it do you have a fully fleshed out idea or do you just tinker with one aspect?

I create PC character files (I use a super simplistic RTF format) and name them:

blaster sorcerer (sorcerer 4)
human barbarian (barbarian 3)
etc.

Then I re-skin them as needed.

If you just like to sit around and think up character templates, you can amass a large library quickly. This is especially true if you start at level 1, save it, advance a level, save it, etc.


I'm with Kazred on just re-skinning the premades. I'm much more interested in developing a narrative that goes with the flow of the PCs than spending hours creating BBEGs for just 2 encoutners.

Sometimes a situation will call for a specific build, and if it's too much for me to just change in my head I will build the character up, but there's only so much that the players are ever going to see in-game. It doesn't matter how the BBEEG Rogue spends all of his skill points if Acrobatics and Stealth are the only ones that the players will deal with.


For the most part, I also use stock characters from the GMG or NPC Guide, and re-skin them as needed. I do like to play with their magic items, though. It's the main way "cool" items get into the PCs' hands.

Occasionally, I'll have a weird or special NPC that I need to build up-- and that gets really tedious. I've been thinking about buying HeroLab, but I use a ton of home rules, and am afraid that an investment in that tool wouldn't save me much time. So, for now, I build them by hand.

For example, I spent three hours of my precious game design time yesterday statting up an NPC foil of the party that used to be the PC of a player that resigned from my game. (The old "former friend is now an enemy" trick.) None of the characters from the GMG or NPC Guide were all that close to the concept, so I ended up having to build the character from the ground up.

To save time, I usually restrict myself to the ruleset from the Core Rulebook. You can build pretty decent characters without having to troll through all of the supplements. And don't get too fancy trying to use archetypes or prestige classes: single-class characters work best for NPC bad guys.


Depends on what the NPC is for.
If it's a recurring NPC, I tend to stat them as I would a PC and invest a great deal into their backstory and goals so that I have a better idea of how they will interact with the PCs.

If it's random farmer Jonny Normal, I figure out their HP's, Will save and perception as those are the mostly likely things I'll need to know when they deal with the PCs. :)

-TimD

Shadow Lodge

I really like character creation so I usually make my own from scratch, though I'm trying to streamline it a bit by making a couple of extra stock NPCs.

Spook205 wrote:
As NPCs are the primary source for players to get their hands on magic (barring the shop, or the horde of items) approaches, this results in an annoying circumstance where NPCs have boring items, and then players have boring items and everyone gets to sit around and smoke cigars and comment on how happy they are that WBL is being obeyed.

You can always switch out a few of the Cloaks of Resistance and Rings of Protection for some good value cheap items which the players will like, and save the major weapons and core items for the hoards and bosses (which can have higher value single items).


Improvise, fudge, or steal ideas from people I play PBP with..
Jory Redcap is now an NPC, and i know how to play him :D

Also: full-stating, I only do for adversaries/important NPCs


I like have stats for my NPCs and I dont mind building them out (I work grave yard at a hotel and my job is to stay awake so I have the time, and I get payed to do it :P ) But I do use a spreadsheet that is simplified version of a standard sheet, I can get 3-4 Different NPCs per page, and I reuse them for my campaigns. And I use the npcs form the NPC guide and the DMG. It is all up to you and what you like to do, I know alot of people that all they have is to hit, Damange, HP, AC, Saves, ability's, and equipment. It works for them.


I use PcGen. I then reference the NPC codex if I really don't feel like putting much effort into thinking up logical progression for the NPC.

Takes me 5 minutes to generate an NPC. I have a whole bunch saved in my Dropbox from past games.


I do things by hand. It's a bit annoying and tedious, but becomes faster and easier as you get used it. One doesn't typically need all of the NPC's stats either.


I steal shamelessly from everywhere I can. I cob every dead player sheet. I re use, re skin and whatever else comes to mind. I even have players create themed BBEGs for me.

Liberty's Edge

Stealing from Adventure Paths works nicely. There are a couple web resources that have compiled them.


I use PC-Gen when I need detail for an NPC. For example I have just written a L7 Sage (expert/adept) and a low level centaur Druid. Both of those could finish up interacting with the party regularly, and I want a decent character sheet to work from. That way I know I can play then consistently when They 'pop up'.

If, on the other hand, I just need a short term NPC, or a low level baddie (or in some cases even a high level baddie) I will grab what ever I can find and tweak then to fit my needs. And I won't think twice about doubling their HP in the middle of combat if it looks to easy - or suddenly dropping their high level spells if it looks like a potential TPK.

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