Masterwork Tools question

[NumenorKing42]

Regarding masterwork tools, the general description is open ended, are there limits to which skill checks you can buy masterwork tools for?

I would have read this as any skill check that a mundane tool could help with, however my friend read this as being able to get a tool to assist in any skill check.

So he bought a masterwork tool that was a terrifying necklace to give him a +2 on Intimidate checks.

This seems a bit of a stretch to me, but if that is the intention I don't really have a problem with it.

So, which skills can you get Masterwork Tools for?

[TwilightKnight]

As I recall, all skills are eligible for a masterwork tool. Most GMs would argue that if there is an "official" equivalent tool, such as a climbing harness, you cannot circumvent the cost issue by choosing a masterwork climbing tool instead.

You should be prepared to describe what the tool actually is, not just call it a tool, masterwork and some GMs will not allow it to remain equipped all the time depending on what it is.

[NumenorKing42]

Thanks, I should have searched for previous posts before asking this question:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2n978?Masterwork-Tools-for-all-skills#4

I see we already have an answer.

Thanks.

[BigNorseWolf]

Unfortunately ultimate equipment shot the question back into damned if i know territory.

Citation:

Some skills have no appropriate tool or masterwork tool—
no nonmagical item exists that grants a bonus for all uses
of that skill. For example, just because a certain perfume is
favored by local nobles (granting a +2 circumstance bonus
on Diplomacy checks to influence them) doesn’t mean that
perfume has the same effect on a member of the thieves’
guild, a foreign berserker, or a medusa. Likewise, just because
a fake beard woven by dwarves out of the beards of famous
dwarves may grant a +2 circumstance bonus on Use Magic
Device checks to emulate the dwarven race doesn’t mean the
beard has any effect on using that skill to activate elven items
or paladin items, or to decipher a written spell

[Jiggy]

Bob Jonquet wrote:

Most GMs would argue that if there is an "official" equivalent tool, such as a climbing harness, you cannot circumvent the cost issue by choosing a masterwork climbing tool instead.

This is actually in print now, as of Ultimate Equipment:

Masterwork Tool: "Several common items already count as masterwork tools for particular skills. These are the alchemist's lab, climber's kit, disguise kit, healer's kit, masterwork musical instrument, and masterwork thieves' tools. Therefore, there is no masterwork climber's kit, masterwork healer's kit, and so on—those items are already the best available for general checks with the relevant skill."

[CRobledo]

As far as I remember, with the printing of Ultimate Equipment now all the skills that have a relevant MWK tool are printed in the book. I used to have one for Perform (oratory) but I think it is now shot.

[Jiggy]

CRobledo wrote:

As far as I remember, with the printing of Ultimate Equipment now all the skills that have a relevant MWK tool are printed in the book.

Not so; check my link.

[CRobledo]

That entry is incredibly confusing. So can I get a mwk tool for Perform (oratory) or not?

[LazarX]

CRobledo wrote:

That entry is incredibly confusing. So can I get a mwk tool for Perform (oratory) or not?

Unless you could give ME the GM a convincing description of what such a tool would be physically, the answer would either be no, or applicable only for certain circumstances depending on what you described said tool to be. A masterwork megaphone isn't going to help you win a case in court, and quite frankly is more likely to slap you with a penalty.

As UE finally clarified, not all skills are going to have a working universal tool.

[Jiggy]

Maybe some kind of throat spray, following the healer's kit model of limited uses? Use it before doing your oration.

[nosig]

Jiggy wrote:

Maybe some kind of throat spray, following the healer's kit model of limited uses? Use it before doing your oration.

wow... I could see this being an Alchemical item, and giveing an Alchemical bonus...

[MrSin]

I've always thought masterwork oratory and sing could be makeup and appearance related items. Performance isn't all about how you sound. The downside being that you have a visual component.

Masterwork tools already give a typed bonus. Has to be circumstance. An alchemical item to give you a special kind of voice could be both ridiculous or awesome though.

[CRobledo]

My original MW tool for oratory was gold-leaf notecards from a famous past orator.

But once again, now MWK tools fall into the realm of YMMV then.

[creepyblack]

You could always use a metronome to help with your timing and inflection for the oratory skill.

[Sah]

Or a megaphone style thing. I don't know what you would call the non electric ones, but they exist. Anyone know if that's still a megaphone or have any idea what I am rambling about? But yeah as long as you could make a reasonable item it should work. War paint or a well created mask would be good for intimidate, necklace not so much (IMO). But yeah I really think this won't be settled resolutely right now. Talk to the dm.

[Ravingdork]

I always thought of the nameless masterwork tools as one of those "you need to ask your GM" kinds of things.

[MrSin]

In PFS you run into a variety of GMs who's opinions may vary. I've rarely been told No when it comes to a masterwork tool though. Some things are easier than others too. Masterwork Tool: Fancy/Orthopedic shoes could be a number of things. How often can you say no to that? In the meantime Masterwork Makeup for a performance could be pretty hit or miss. Now try coming up with a good one for diplomacy/bluff...

My favorite masterwork tool by far, is the masterwork tool for intimidate: My Sword. Say no to that!

The player I knew who had the sword was using it with enforcer. He was literally hitting you with his masterwork weapon to roll intimidate.

[creepyblack]

For diplomacy, I would suggest a bunch of fancy/impressive looking medals and ribbons. As for bluff, try a pair of really dark sunglasses.