Reloading Mah Pepperbox! (And my Double Barreled Pistol?)


Advice


Its a standard action to reload a single one handed firearm barrel.

Rapid Reload makes this a move action.

Paper Catridges reduces this to a free action.

So... To reload all 6 barrels of a pepperbox is a free action (well, 6 free actions). (even though it doesnt matter, since you could reload a single barrel pistol 6 times.)

To reload each barrel of a double pistol is obviously a free action. To fire both barrels simultaneously os also free, but imparts a -4 penalty.

So I can fire a double barreled pistol 6 times (4 attacks, haste, and rapid shot, lets say) which is 12 bullets. Which I can reload as 12 free actions?

I have this right... right?


...Mostly. There is a note on free actions that stipulates "there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn". Basically it's up to how your DM interprets that particular little caveat.


Sure, sounds great.


Byrdology wrote:
Sure, sounds great.

sounds like sarcasm.

But seriously, I am not missing anything here, am I? No GM I have played with has never put a limit on free actions in 10+ years of gaming.


No, it really sounds great... I am now considering how to use this myself.

Weapon cords plus quick draw, rapid reload and TWF. Fire double barrels at -4 plus haste and iterations x2. Weapon master 3 + gloves of dueling + weapon focus = + 4 to hit which counteracts the penalty and keeps your BaB full to hit touch AC... By definition, sounds great.


Byrdology wrote:

No, it really sounds great... I am now considering how to use this myself.

Weapon cords plus quick draw, rapid reload and TWF. Fire double barrels at -4 plus haste and iterations x2. Weapon master 3 + gloves of dueling + weapon focus = + 4 to hit which counteracts the penalty and keeps your BaB full to hit touch AC... By definition, sounds great.

Take weapon master to 4 for specialization and you are really cooking with gas!


Yes... and blow through gold faster than a UMD rogue.

Not that its a bad idea, its just a very expensive one.

i am also pondering a double barreled pistol loaded with Flare cartridges... 2 DC 15 rolls to turn being blind 1 round into dazzled. One standard attack, and your rogue will love you forever, at least at low levels.. Worst case you shoot them up with 12 flare rounds... each round is a 5% chance of failure. (total 60% to fail once at the highest levels.)

Something can be done with Entangle Shot... it just sucks that it can only be shot out of a scatter weapon. (No double barreled dragon pistols.)I've got to think about it more.

Sczarni

The thought of 12 free actions would make me flinch, and if I were GM, I'd want to limit it. The question is, where do you limit it? How many free actions is too many? Where do you draw the line?


Byrdology wrote:

No, it really sounds great... I am now considering how to use this myself.

Weapon cords plus quick draw, rapid reload and TWF. Fire double barrels at -4 plus haste and iterations x2. Weapon master 3 + gloves of dueling + weapon focus = + 4 to hit which counteracts the penalty and keeps your BaB full to hit touch AC... By definition, sounds great.

Yeah...that is the kind of things that is the reason for the limit on free actions by a GM...

For more normal usage, yeah, double pistol should not be a problem. It really comes down in part to how you imagine the loading done to me. Once you get it down to a free action, I would say you'd have the skill to load a couple adjacent barrels at once. Double barreled is simple since you would just need to have two cartridges between your fingers and line them up at the same time. For pepper boxes or revolvers...well, lets say that you just got a few speed loaders and leave it at that.


Silent Saturn wrote:
The thought of 12 free actions would make me flinch, and if I were GM, I'd want to limit it. The question is, where do you limit it? How many free actions is too many? Where do you draw the line?

Well, hence the OP I reckon. It gets worse with weapon cords and all that nonsense.

Honestly I feel using double barrels (or TWF) with pistols is more trouble than its worth, and FAR too expensive to do every round.

The Pepperbox isn't a big deal though. Basically it allows a sort of limited form of Rapid Reload+Paper Cartridges, usable for the first 6 attacks of a combat.

Once you have rapid reload and paper cartridges, its a pistol with higher misfire chance. The one advantage is that each barrel can contain a different alchemical cartridge or special material bullet. Presumably you can spin it to the correct barrel as a free action. I would allow it based on being cool but in no way overpowered, regardless of the RAI. (Flare, cold iron, silver, adamantine, pitted, and normal bullets. Awesome.)


I am a bad DM... I never track ammunition unless its a x-bow. If you have the right feat, and buy a few different types of ammo then I consider you covered...

As a result, I never use ranged combat as a player because I hate keeping track of little things like that. I would be afraid of playing a gunslinger, because they are too easy to brake to me... But I promise to use the heck out of them against my players!


Just make sure when you go limiting it that you let the PC know in advance of them spending all the cash and feats and such.

I'm not saying you shouldn't limit it (12 reloads in 6 seconds does seem abit much, imo) just that communication here is key.

-S


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12 is a bit much... (4 attacks, +1 haste, +1 Rapid Shot *2 =12), but worse is the 4 attacks, 3 for TWF feats, 1 for haste, 1 for rapid shot... 18 reloads in 6 seconds.

The whole weapon cord thing is cheesy anyway. Im pretty sure the "it may interfere with fine movements" covers reloading a muzzle loading pistol.

Alchemists growing extra limbs... is just... bizarre. I'd never let a player get far without getting in game grief for it.

In any case, i find both options lacks finesse and subtlety.


Another idea is loading the first bullet in a pepperbox as a Burrowing Bullet.

Basically allows a no save staggered effect for 1d3 rounds, or until the target receives a DC 15 heal check. the next five bullets are your bullet of choice.

Barring a guy there just to provide the BBEG some heal checks, its a pretty solid way to lock down any martial types. Sadly, there are too many standard action spells to make it viable against spellcasters...


Sorry to necro this, but just started to run into this in our local game.
Would limiting how many of the same "free action" a player can take fix this? Wouldn't screw over most players but keeps things from getting a little to silly. Especially with the weapon cords, sure they may be able to cram in a bullet or two with the other gun swinging from your wrist but 5-6?


The Weapon Cord has been FAQ'ed, so your situation is probably a bit different from what's outlined here.

That said, it would be useful to have a little more information. What level is the gunslinger in your game?


Kudaku wrote:

The Weapon Cord has been FAQ'ed, so your situation is probably a bit different from what's outlined here.

That said, it would be useful to have a little more information. What level is the gunslinger in your game?

I also view it like this, how much does your gm let you talk as a free action? I ask becouse you have to think of how the actions work before it gets to the point of abuse, i play a musket master, i can get 3 shots off, 4 if i have haste at level 9, so thats viewed as in the realm of ok, but if i had a pepper box, firing 4-6 shots with out reload then stoping to reload them all as a free acton does seem a bit much,

Sczarni

The only time I ever saw a pepperbox in play, the GM decided that if its wielder could reload one bullet as a free action, then reloading all the chambers would be a move action.

It worked fine in execution. He wasn't trying to TWF with guns, so he usually got to full attack twice in a row before reloading. The GM still gets to impose a hard limit, and the gunslinger still gets to Rapid Shot.


Say goodbye to Weapon Cords and hello to Gun Twirl! :p
Although it does require three feats above the previous weapon-cord shenanigans, you can do the same thing with Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus, Quick Draw and Gun Twirl.

Although drawing, twirling, and holstering several different pistols as you reload and fire sounds so frickin' badass I'd forgive the extra feats.


Why do I have to think about Il Duche from The Boondock Saints? oh, wait, I know:

Paul Smecker wrote:
They exited out the front door. They had no idea what they were in for. Now they're staring at six men with guns drawn. It was a f%+&ing ambush. This was a f+*#ing bomb dropping on Beaver Cleaverville. For a few seconds, this place was Armageddon! There was a firefight!
Detective Greenly wrote:
What if it was just one guy with six guns?
Paul Smecker wrote:
Why don't you let me do the thinking, huh, genius?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Katydid wrote:

Say goodbye to Weapon Cords and hello to Gun Twirl! :p

Although it does require three feats above the previous weapon-cord shenanigans, you can do the same thing with Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus, Quick Draw and Gun Twirl.

Although drawing, twirling, and holstering several different pistols as you reload and fire sounds so frickin' badass I'd forgive the extra feats.

I don't see where Gun Twirl helps you in the reloading department.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Katydid wrote:

Say goodbye to Weapon Cords and hello to Gun Twirl! :p

Although it does require three feats above the previous weapon-cord shenanigans, you can do the same thing with Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus, Quick Draw and Gun Twirl.

Although drawing, twirling, and holstering several different pistols as you reload and fire sounds so frickin' badass I'd forgive the extra feats.

I don't see where Gun Twirl helps you in the reloading department.

The problem with dual wielding firearms is that you need a free hand to reload a gun. So once you fire both of them you need to reload. So you either spend a move action to holster one or a free action to drop one (and a move action to pick it up later). Weapon cords used to be a solution, but got nerfed to avoid such shenanigans.

Gun Twirl wrote:
If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a one-handed firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.

This lets you holster a gun as a free action while you reload the other one. You already need to have the feats to reload your firearms as a free action to do this properly, of course, but this helps with the free hand problem.


Castarr4 wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Katydid wrote:

Say goodbye to Weapon Cords and hello to Gun Twirl! :p

Although it does require three feats above the previous weapon-cord shenanigans, you can do the same thing with Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus, Quick Draw and Gun Twirl.

Although drawing, twirling, and holstering several different pistols as you reload and fire sounds so frickin' badass I'd forgive the extra feats.

I don't see where Gun Twirl helps you in the reloading department.

The problem with dual wielding firearms is that you need a free hand to reload a gun. So once you fire both of them you need to reload. So you either spend a move action to holster one or a free action to drop one (and a move action to pick it up later). Weapon cords used to be a solution, but got nerfed to avoid such shenanigans.

Gun Twirl wrote:
If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a one-handed firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.
This lets you holster a gun as a free action while you reload the other one. You already need to have the feats to reload your firearms as a free action to do this properly, of course, but this helps with the free hand problem.

That's pretty handy, if a bit heavy in the feat tax department. Most of my gunslingers would never use the feint aspect since their Charisma tends to be . . . lacking.


Castarr4 wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Katydid wrote:

Say goodbye to Weapon Cords and hello to Gun Twirl! :p

Although it does require three feats above the previous weapon-cord shenanigans, you can do the same thing with Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus, Quick Draw and Gun Twirl.

Although drawing, twirling, and holstering several different pistols as you reload and fire sounds so frickin' badass I'd forgive the extra feats.

I don't see where Gun Twirl helps you in the reloading department.
The problem with dual wielding firearms is that you need a free hand to reload a gun.

The easiest solution here is to have 4 arms.


I run a dual wielding pistolero with one level of witch. You cant reload either pistol without a free hand but she can uae her hair. I also run a campaign and have inteoduced a 6 free actions limit. If you think speaking is a free action, how much can you say in 6 second? Pribably 6 different things. That means you are limited on shots. I dont think a gunslinger without hair or extra limb could shoot more than 3 tiemes realistically.

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