No Body Here But Trees


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So I'm working on a character, and as a bit of a thought project I'm seeing how I can get his bluff.

Right now by level 10 I'm looking at an easy 64.

My question is what can this 64 bluff get me?

Can I convince a person that I"m not actually there and he is merely imagining my presence?

Perhaps I could tell the BBG that his spell component pouch has been swapped for a bag of devouring?

According to the core rulebook just because something is impossible doesn't make it an auto fail. You only suffer a -20 penalty on it. Which would still leave me with a +44 bluff.

So what can I do with a +44 bluff.

By the way this post does not exist. It is merely a creation of your repressed desires.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

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My player's actually tried (and succeeded) in basically that same argument. A rogue player with a poorly made disguise as a bush was caught by some border guards while the other players were trying to slip through. He claimed he had a disease turning him into an ent. This was followed by the group druid then using tree shape to turn himself into a small tree, to which the rogue said, "See? He's in late stage and we're all contagious!"[/b] His then roll of a 39 Bluff (including a bonus for the druid's help) and the guard's poor Sense Motive roll, and they were sent along their way.

Moral of this is that a good Bluff mod is limited by the Bluffer and the GM. Or a zone of truth, that'll muck things up.

The Exchange

I must admit, I am a bit of min/max-er. I don't always play these characters but I enjoy making them. A little off topic but I was wondering if you could post your math. I am truly curious as to how you got +64. I'd love to duplicate it if possible.

This ultimate bluff sounds like it'd be a blast of a character.

This goes back to the argument of "I have a fly skill of 40, I don't have wings or anything but I have inverted ranks into and resources for when I get wings. Now I am falling of a cliff so let me make my impossible fly check at a -20 to see if I mystically learn how to fly by flapping my arms"

I think the definition of possible and impossible is a silly dividing line. Instead we should look at whats probable and improbable.

Bluffing to the guard that caught you that you don't exist and are merely a figment of his imagination? Pretty improbable that he'd believe you. Bluffing to him that you're not doing any harm and that it'd be a lot of paperwork and chasing if he tries to catch you, so he should just go on his way and pretend he never saw you? That is more probable and as a DM I'd be much much more likely to allow that.

In the end, you have to look at what you want to do with a +64/+44 bluff check. Do you want to put on your chicken costume and fly off a cliff or rather put on your best clothes and convince wealthy nobles to invest in your adventuring crew which is totally legitimate and not in any way a scam.


Ahh yes, the big fibber build, I always got ideas for this in the back of my mind.
Quick build,
Human sorcerer with rakshasa bloodline Lvl 1.
20 Cha, silver tongued, bluff trait, rich parents trait
Feats, racial heritage (damphir), natural charmer
Mask of stony demeanor

+22 to bluff, +5 bonus from bloodline, ability to fool magical detection, ability to disguise your spells, and ability to take 20 on bluff checks :D
You can 'roll' a 47 at lvl 1!

The other idea I had was to go bard and pick up rakshasa bloodline via eldritch heritage granting me extra skills,access to glibbness, and other bardy things at the cost of feats and the ability to disguise my spells.

Later on, I would pick up deceitful feat, inexplitable luck, bracers of the glib entertainer, hat of disguise self, 9 more ranks of bluff and come out with a +68 for a 'roll' of 88 at lvl 10!:-)


I don't know you, but my friend plays a sorcerer that goes around telling people he is 'the rider of the god of horses'. He has managed to convert lots of random peasants to worship him and his mount spell. If anyone asks he is more powerful than the god because he gets to ride the god around and call him whenever he wants. Our DM says if he keeps this up, he will eventually get in trouble with the real gods, but he might end up a godling himself, out of sheer gathered belief.

Liberty's Edge

Something to keep in mind:
Note that some lies are so improbable that it is impossible to convince anyone that they are true (subject to GM discretion).


The rulebook says that somethings someone will never believe and reactions may vary. In an instance such as the BBEG being told his components pouch was repalced with a bag of devouring he might double check real quick by trying to casting fireball on the liar.

Different GMs react very differently to this sort of thing. I rarely meet one that just lets the person I'm talking to say no however.


So, basically, you wanna pull something like this. I'd allow it.


I'd allow it.

And I have to ask, how did you get such high Bluff modifiers? All I could get was about +35 and another +20 from Glibness.


Lemmy wrote:

I'd allow it.

And I have to ask, how did you get such high Bluff modifiers? All I could get was about +35 and another +20 from Glibness.

Did you count the Mask of Stony Demeanor? 500 gold for +10 Bluff is awesome.

Also you got one more than I or mathobedis manaed to get.
My Breakedown:
Cha 26 (20 inicial, +2 from leveling +4 from headband) +8
Feats Skill Focus and Decitful, +10 at 10th lvl
Skill ranks in class skill +13
Trait Fast-Talker +1
Masterwork Tool for bluff +2 (though I have no idea what the tool would be)

Found two more feats: Careful Speaker gives another +2, Voice of the Sibyl gives +3

Still can't get to Gobo Hordes +68. Are you counting Glibness and the bracers together Gobo? They don't stack, the bracers just allow you to cast Glibness.


VM mercenario wrote:
Did you count the Mask of Stony Demeanor? 500 gold for +10 Bluff is awesome.

Ah, the Stony Mask. I forgot about it, mostly because I find it really inconvenient to be wearing a mask the whole time (one that sets your voice to a very specific tone). But I suppose it works.

VM mercenario wrote:
Trait Fast-Talker +1

Doesn't seem like a worthwhile investment for a character with Bluff as a class skill, though.

VM mercenario wrote:
Masterwork Tool for bluff +2 (though I have no idea what the tool would be)

Maybe... A book? "Politics For Dummies" or something...

VM mercenario wrote:
Found two more feats: Careful Speaker gives another +2, Voice of the Sibyl gives +3

They're rather limited... A whole feat for another +2 or +3 seems a bit too expensive for me. But again, I suppose it works.

VM mercenario wrote:
Still can't get to Gobo Hordes +68. Are you counting Glibness and the bracers together Gobo? They don't stack, the bracers just allow you to cast Glibness.

With your math, he already got up to 39, so it's just another +5 (and Glibness) to reach that 64.

Rakasha bloodline gives you another +5. And there is a headband that gives you a +3 on cha-based checks, but using it makes no sense when you can buy a Headband of Alluring Charisma.

Well... That seems to work, but at the cost of 4 feats, 1 trait and 2 magic items, one of which is rather suspicious and inconvenient (the mask).


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Gobo Horde wrote:

Ahh yes, the big fibber build, I always got ideas for this in the back of my mind.

Quick build,
Human sorcerer with rakshasa bloodline Lvl 1.
20 Cha, silver tongued, bluff trait, rich parents trait
Feats, racial heritage (damphir), natural charmer
Mask of stony demeanor

+22 to bluff, +5 bonus from bloodline, ability to fool magical detection, ability to disguise your spells, and ability to take 20 on bluff checks :D
You can 'roll' a 47 at lvl 1!

The other idea I had was to go bard and pick up rakshasa bloodline via eldritch heritage granting me extra skills,access to glibbness, and other bardy things at the cost of feats and the ability to disguise my spells.

Later on, I would pick up deceitful feat, inexplitable luck, bracers of the glib entertainer, hat of disguise self, 9 more ranks of bluff and come out with a +68 for a 'roll' of 88 at lvl 10!:-)

Alright I will break it down and, BTW I did stack silver tongued and glibbness as they are untyped bonuses but i did not doublestack glibbness. Also I imagine you missed inexplicable luck, witch grants +8 to a single d20 roll a day. Only usable once a day but ehh.

20 cha, +5
Fast talker +1
Silver tongued +5
Ranks +4
Mask +10
=25 ahhh I see what I did' I counted silver tongue twice and forgot to add the +3 for class skill. Everything after will probably be off, so I will recalculate.

Lvl 10.
20 cha +5 no level up bonus or headband
Fast talker +1
Silver tongued +5
Ranks +13
Deceitful +4
Glibbness +20
Mask +10
Inexplicable luck +8
=66 so it looks like my second calculation was off by the same amount . It is now correct

Now with the information you bring, let's make it more absurd!

26 cha +8 (+2 leveling, +4 headband)
Fast talker +1
Silver tongued +5
Ranks +13
Glibbness +20
Mask +10
Deceitful +4
Skill focus +6
Carful speaker +2
Voice of the Sibyl +3
Inexplicable luck +8
Masterwork tools +2 a forged document or royal robes perhaps?
=82!!! With taking 20 comes out to a grand whopping 'roll' of 102!
This takes a total of 8 feats out of 6..So I guess drop the damphir heratage and the ability to take 20 and you got yourself +82.

Feel free to check my math as I already made one mistake so far. Can we improve this?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This can...

...get kind of abusive.


We'll need to add the types to the list of bonuses, or risk getting doubles in.

Aid Another from a henchman could give another untyped +2. You just need an accomplice with 9 points, so he'll make the DC 10 even when rolling a one.

A Cracked Pink and Green Sphere Ioun Stone gives an untyped +1, though that'probably supposed to be an enhancement bonus.

Sovereign Court

Not exactly related but I once made a d20 Modern character who had a +64 Hide at level 10, and +40-something Sleight of Hand (and Move Silently). RAW, he could Take 10 on "palming" a rocket launcher while wearing nothing but a swimsuit and get away with it. As for hiding, that was what made me realize exactly why hiding can be better than invisibility. Now I'm just thinking about what madness I could have unleashed if I had thrown all my skill points into Bluff as well...

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