Questions and Inconsistancies Concerning a Wizard's Spells, Spellbook, and Crafting Materials


Advice


Let me preface this by saying that I am aware that all of my questions below are answerable with, "It is for game balance." I get that. I am a big fan of game balance. That said, I want to know what the IN CHARACTER answers are. If my wizard were trying to explain these things to a fighter, what would he say?

We all know that it costs an amount of gold to write new spells in a wizard's spellbook. My question is, where does the gold actually go? Is it for special inks and quills? If so, why is there not an option to purchase them specifically?

How do other DMs handle this? Do you allow wizards in your group to simply deduct the gold and write the spell or do you require them to actually "purchase" the materials needed, much like what you would do with crafting feats? How is it handled if the wizard is nowhere near a settlement? Can you purchase these materials in advance so, if you happen across a new spell, you can write it in your spellbook?

On a related note, how do you handle the new spells a wizard acquires upon advancing a level? Do they magically appear in his spellbook? Does he go to the local wizard's guild and acquire them? Is it simply the result of his off-time tinkering with the laws of reality? Why are these spells written for free versus spells that are found by other methods?

These questions lead into spell research... Again we all know that it costs to conduct spell research, but where does the money go? Does it go into buying materials to be tried out as different components/foci, access to a research library, or what? If a wizard can figure out the spells he gains every level on his own, why would he need help with other spells, especially if it one that already exists and that he could have taken with his last level if he had chosen? Can the spell research fees be paid in advance of heading off into the wilderness so that only the time requirement needs to be met?

Would it be possible for a wealthy wizard to purchase all the GP requirements of spell research and the costs of writing them into his spellbook for several years and go hole up in a tower in the middle of nowhere and be able to expand his spell knowledge? If it is, what would the size and weight of these materials be? Could he carry them in his saddlebags? Would he need a wagon? Would he need a fleet of wagons?

Now that I write this, I suppose I have the same questions about crafting. If the same hermit wizard decided that he wanted to be able to craft magic items for several years, how would the weight and bulk of his crafting materials be measured? Would he need to decide in advance what he was going to craft or would the appropriate amount of GP in "crafting material" be sufficient? I assume that you would need different actual materials for a Headband of Vast Intellect than you would need for an Ioun Stone. Does anyone actually track this?

My last question is does any of the above ever really matter or are people more concerned with killing monsters and acquiring treasure than roleplaying in a logically consistent setting?

Silver Crusade

Sir Gavin, while your complaints about this are reasonable, you are thinking too hard on this matter and thus only causing yourself a headache.

For the spell componants that have required costs I would say that just burning coins for spells is indeed just sily and not how the gameshould be run. Costly materials, especially if your a prepared caster, should be bought and prepared with your own gold and, if your smart, you'll let the bard/rouge haggle thier prices down. The Gold cost is not meant to be literal, but it should be used as a value measuring stick instead. When it says "500 gold worth of rubies" whats its sayng is that these rubies are valuable and precious commodities that are about as valuable as 500gold worth of other things.

Now onto the problem of resources. if your nowhere near a settlement, then you and your GM have a choice to make. Either you can attempt to scrounge your area for something suitable, or you dont pepare that spell. There is no magic credit-card: either you have to use the material (Or suitable substitute as of GM's discretion) or you cant do it much life how a potter cannot form ceramics without clay to work with.

Next post wil be on the speculative nature of spells and magic. I have to jet for now


Well, the questions didn't really deal with costly components. Those are spelled out pretty clearly. What I really want to know about is the intangible things that have a gold piece cost but don't really give you anything to show for that gold, like writing spells in a spellbook, spell research and crafting material.


I think that a lot of the specifics are going to vary widely and wildly between spells. If you're researching a improved fireball spell, maybe you're paying for cartloads of different types of guans to be shipped in from all over the world so you can compare which one produces the next effect. If you're researching a better illusion spell, maybe you need different types of wool from Vudra, or 650 different types of rock for an underground mapping spell.

Buying lots of books to find some hints. 90% of the books will turn out to be useless for anything, but theosphere 10% will have useful clues.

Paying assistants to help you. Or clerics to fix the inevitable boo-boos that happen when you neglect to consider the side effects of the "have fangs like a tyrannosaur" spell. Or engineers to fix the damage to your neighbor's property.

Services. Components. Assistants. Transportation and housing costs. Fixing errors. Extra costs for transporting stuff way out into the wilderness so you don't have to pay for fixing errors. Imp-proofing your bedroom after the conjuration spell went wrong. Offerings made to the outsiders you conjured up in hopes they would teach you the spell, or the name, or the secret planar frequency.

It's really sort of unique to each case. Be creative.


As far as books go, the cost is probably for special inks, drawing diagrams in the spellbook in whatever sort of blood it takes, making sure you're using perfectly prepared virgin medusa skin, etc. and the size of books is just a convenient shorthand. Some wizards have a lot of small books, some wizards have one big book -- the weight and cost are wildly simplified for game purposes. Not many people want to play "Library Book Tending: The RPG." If you and your players do, just invent the rules for it, or look up some of the many books on Renaissance-era libraries. I can recommend a few if you want to go there.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Sir Gavvin wrote:
We all know that it costs an amount of gold to write new spells in a wizard's spellbook. My question is, where does the gold actually go? Is it for special inks and quills?

The specifics are up to the GM, but yes.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
If so, why is there not an option to purchase them specifically?

Space. Why double-list the costs in two places in the book, once under the rules for spellbooks and once under the equipment section ?

Sir Gavvin wrote:
How do other DMs handle this? Do you allow wizards in your group to simply deduct the gold and write the spell or do you require them to actually "purchase" the materials needed, much like what you would do with crafting feats?

What's the difference ? The complete transaction is the same, you start with gold and you end with a spell written in your book. Do you really need to account for the intermediate steps ?

Sir Gavvin wrote:
How is it handled if the wizard is nowhere near a settlement?

Up to the GM. If you come across a scroll in your travels and want to add that spell to your book, that sort of scribing isn't usually done on the road but could be if you have paid the costs in advance and/or brought the right things with you.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
Can you purchase these materials in advance so, if you happen across a new spell, you can write it in your spellbook?

Up to the GM, but yes, why not ? My characters have purchased empty spellbooks, scroll-crafting materials and the special inks in advance before. Why wouldn't you be able to purchase them in advance ?

Sir Gavvin wrote:
On a related note, how do you handle the new spells a wizard acquires upon advancing a level? Do they magically appear in his spellbook?

The wizard is assumed to have been experimenting in his free time, but only writes them in his book in permanent form when the thinks he's finally got them mastered enough to do so.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
Does he go to the local wizard's guild and acquire them?

Only if the GMs custom world works like that.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
Is it simply the result of his off-time tinkering with the laws of reality?
Sir Gavvin wrote:
Why are these spells written for free versus spells that are found by other methods?

Because the rules say so.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
These questions lead into spell research... Again we all know that it costs to conduct spell research, but where does the money go? Does it go into buying materials to be tried out as different components/foci, access to a research library, or what?

All of the above. Every mage does things his own way.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
If a wizard can figure out the spells he gains every level on his own, why would he need help with other spells, especially if it [is] one that already exists and that he could have taken with his last level if he had chosen?

Time. Your wizard chose to spend his limited research/experimentation time on the spells you chose, not the other ones.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
Can the spell research fees be paid in advance of heading off into the wilderness so that only the time requirement needs to be met?

Spell research is COMPLETELY up to your GM. Ask him. Me, I'd say probably not, since the means to do more than the standard research/experimentation/practice between levels probably isn't very portable and the wilderness isn't exactly condusive to the efficiency of such endeavors.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
Would it be possible for a wealthy wizard to purchase all the GP requirements of spell research and the costs of writing them into his spellbook for several years and go hole up in a tower in the middle of nowhere and be able to expand his spell knowledge?

Yes, but only by GM fiat. The GM can assign an NPC prepared caster spellbooks containing anything he wants with any explanation he wants. Don't expect as a PC to do that, as it would take you out of the party.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
If it is, what would the size and weight of these materials be? Could he carry them in his saddlebags? Would he need a wagon? Would he need a fleet of wagons?

Who cares ? Besides, it's likely different for every wizard.

Sir Gavvin wrote:
My last question is does any of the above ever really matter or are people more concerned with killing monsters and acquiring treasure than roleplaying in a logically consistent setting?

No, it doesn't really mater. However, I find the tone of that last clause accusitory. If you really want to play magical logistics, go right ahead, but I don't see how that's necessary for a logically consistent setting. It's magic, if it was logical, it would be science.

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