Yet Another? SR question


Rules Questions

Sczarni

Held Charges and Spell Resistance:

per p 565 of Core Rulebook:
On lasting spells, such as web, I get the impression that you roll once a charge has been applied to the SR person (ie. when they enter the web/ wall of fire/etc...), success = affected by all future charges that encounter, failure = not affected.

But then I read (p 565): "Spells that have instantaneous durations but lasting results aren’t subject to spell resistance unless the resistant
creature is exposed to the spell the instant it is cast."

So how does that play with Held Charges from say "Chill Touch"? This tends to tell me that SR critters DON'T get a SR roll against Held Charge spells if they are not present for the casting. Is this correct? Not there at the beginning (even if you aren't the target then...) you don't get a SR roll when someone whacks you with a touch attack later?

IMHO this makes the Major Magic Feat (Chill Touch) ever more deadly than I was playing it before. Touch attacks with a sneak attack rider, now with no SR, and all damage applied without DR! (as opposed to a SR that saves you from the cold damage/magic attack, and then applying DR to the now "normal" sneak attack damage).

It also makes the MAGUS/Mage type classes using held charges pretty devistating if played the same way (hold charges, use ranged touch attacks, etc...)


maouse wrote:

But then I read (p 565): "Spells that have instantaneous durations but lasting results aren’t subject to spell resistance unless the resistant

creature is exposed to the spell the instant it is cast."

So how does that play with Held Charges from say "Chill Touch"? This tends to tell me that SR critters DON'T get a SR roll against Held Charge spells if they are not present for the casting. Is this correct?

Not exactly. Holding a charge postpones the discharge of the spell, which is itself the final step in the casting of the spell. Basically, when you hold a charge on a touch spell, you're pausing halfway through until you can find a target. The "instantaneous" duration only comes into play when you finish the casting by touching something.

Sczarni

Natch wrote:
Not exactly. Holding a charge postpones the discharge of the spell, which is itself the final step in the casting of the spell. Basically, when you hold a charge on a touch spell, you're pausing halfway through until you can find a target. The "instantaneous" duration only comes into play when you finish the casting by touching something.

OK, perhaps I mis-stated something. Chill touch does not "discharge" the held spell on a successful touch. You don't have to re-cast it, it gives a certain "lasting" number of touches. I guess my question would then be - is Chill Touch one of the spells considered to be explained under the "instantaneous and lasting" part of SR, or not?

One of the reasons I don't play a lot of magic users (besides them being rare in my campaigns) is the ambiguity of these sorts of rules. I mean, what spells ARE they talking about that are "instantaneous and lasting" in that section? My understanding is that you cast Chill Touch (1 action)... it LASTS until it has touched x many things (instantaneously transfering the effect each time).

(ps. I know chill touch/touch attacks don't get rid of Dex for sneak attack, that was due to other reasons)


Is the listed duration for Chill Touch given as "Instantaneous"? I thought it was 1 round/level or something. The "charges" don't last forever after you cast the spell, you have to use them all up before the spell expires, or else lose them, or so I thought (don't have book on me atm).

Sczarni

FrinkiacVII wrote:
Is the listed duration for Chill Touch given as "Instantaneous"? I thought it was 1 round/level or something. The "charges" don't last forever after you cast the spell, you have to use them all up before the spell expires, or else lose them, or so I thought (don't have book on me atm).

Yes, Chill touch is DURATION: Instantaneous .... and charges last until targets touched exceeds targets able to be touched (can be weeks, though I don't know how you would pee).


maouse wrote:
Natch wrote:
Not exactly. Holding a charge postpones the discharge of the spell, which is itself the final step in the casting of the spell. Basically, when you hold a charge on a touch spell, you're pausing halfway through until you can find a target. The "instantaneous" duration only comes into play when you finish the casting by touching something.
OK, perhaps I mis-stated something. Chill touch does not "discharge" the held spell on a successful touch. You don't have to re-cast it, it gives a certain "lasting" number of touches. I guess my question would then be - is Chill Touch one of the spells considered to be explained under the "instantaneous and lasting" part of SR, or not?

Ah, okay. My mistake. Anyway, Chill Touch does seem to be a corner case, but it seems as though, for the multiple touches to be a possibility, the duration should be until discharged rather than instantaneous. The only other way multiple touch attacks would be a possibility is if the spell was meant to allow multiple free action touch attacks on the round you cast the spell, but that seems pretty powerful for a first level spell.

Sczarni

Natch wrote:
Ah, okay. My mistake. Anyway, Chill Touch does seem to be a corner case, but it seems as though, for the multiple touches to be a possibility, the duration should be until discharged rather than instantaneous. The only other way multiple touch attacks would be a possibility is if the spell was meant to allow multiple free action touch attacks on the round you cast the spell, but that seems pretty powerful for a first level spell.

No, you don't get CL free action touch attacks with it. You get a lasting EFFECT on your hand. The duration is instantaneous because it is exactly (I think) what the passage I quoted is refering to. A spell with a lasting effect and duration of instantaneous... Each round after, you can do normal attacks and it discharges a charge per strike (or accidental touch of a friend). From the point you cast it, you don't have any control over it, it just goes off. Which is why the presumption is that there is no SR, I guess. It is (after casting) like someone hitting you with a normal torch (except it is magic cold).

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