Greater Sunder + Sundering Strike = Extra Damage?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Quote:

Greater Sunder (Combat)

Your devastating strikes cleave through weapons and armor and into their wielders, damaging both item and wielder alike in a single terrific strike.

Prerequisites: Improved Sunder, Power Attack, base attack bonus +6, Str 13.

Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to sunder an item. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Sunder. Whenever you sunder to destroy a weapon, shield, or suit of armor, any excess damage is applied to the item's wielder. No damage is transferred if you decide to leave the item with 1 hit point.

Quote:

Sundering Strike (Combat)

Your critical hits can sunder your foes’ weapons.

Prerequisites: Str 13, Improved Sunder, Power Attack, base attack bonus +9.

Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee attack, you can sunder your opponent’s weapon, in addition to the normal damage dealt by the attack. If your confirmation roll exceeds your opponent’s CMD, you may deal damage to your opponent’s weapon as if from the sunder combat maneuver (roll normal damage to the weapon separately). This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Normal: You must perform a sunder combat maneuver to sunder an opponent’s weapon.

Special: You can only apply the effects of one of the following feats to a given critical hit: Bull Rush Strike, Disarming Strike, Repositioning Strike, Sundering Strike, or Tripping Strike. You may choose to use this feat after you make your confirmation roll.

If you have both of these feats, does it mean that you can essentially get extra damage from a crit? As in, you confirm a critical threat on your enemy, get a free sunder attempt and succeed, destroy the item with some damage leftover to carry over to your enemy, on top of the normal critical damage?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Edit:

Actually it says you MAY deal damage to the weapon. that makes me think you have to choose.

When you crit you get to choose, deal normal damage or try and destroy their weapon instead. It opens up the option for you, makes it so you did not have to anounce it ahead of time.


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I'm not sure what Banecrow is talking about, but it seems like Xexyz has the right of it. You basically get a free sunder attempt on top of your critical through Sundering Strike. When doing that, if you manage to break all the way through their equipment, the extra damage spills over via Greater Sunder. As a means of clarification, it even makes a note of rolling the sunder damage separately.

Seems perfectly straightforward to me.


What you are asking basically is if Greater sunder is tied only to the manouver of Improved Sunder.

The key with "Greater Sunder" is this part of the description: "You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to sunder an item."

It suggests that you get all the bonuses from that trait not only when you perform an manouver, but at all instances of sundering - sundering strike included.

There is nothing in the rules that says Greater Sunder applies only to Improved Sunder. Personally i think there should be, but if there is no errata I guess that part is intended. Sundering strike connected with Power attack and an adamantine weapon is VERY overpowered. You basically hit the guy for 50% more damag eand destroy his weapon in the process.

Connect that with whirlwind attack and you get a meatgrinder.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think the OP and MacGurcules are correct. One point to note, however, is that the critical confirmation roll must exceed the opponent's CMD in order to sunder. That will be tougher to achieve at that level. My Sunder CMB at 9th level currently is over twice my attack bonus with the same weapon.


A few things to note:

Sundering Strike says "normal damage" to creature and "normal damage" to item. "Normal damage" is not multiplied damage, ie, critical damage. So yes, after you confirm your critical you must choose if you are going to deal normal critical damage or use the feat Sundering Strike, and if your conformation roll is higher than their CMD you can use it. If not it just a critical hit. I'd even say you would gain any bonuses to sundering to that conformation roll too, like from Improved Sunder.

But yes, the way Greater Sunder reads is "Whenever you sunder to destroy a weapon, shield, or suit of armor, any excess damage is applied to the item's wielder." So if you choose to deal normal damage to the creatures item and deal it more than its hardness and hit points in that one hit then the excess damage would transfer over to the wielder, unless you leave the item at 1 HP.

Silver Crusade

Can we get a faq or something on this?

Preferably for Society play as one of my players here in Vegas wished to use this combo.

The questions are, does the enemy take the extra damage?

If so, is it crit damage or 'normal' damage?

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