No classes


Homebrew and House Rules


So, question, what if there were no classes?


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Socialist Pathfinder?


What would we fight about?


It'd be pretty boring.


Well, I guess you would have to replace the character growth mechanics with something else.

One idea would be when you gain experience, instead of gaining levels you can choose advancements, like:
100exp -> +1 skill rank
300exp -> +1 HD
300exp -> +1 BAB
400exp -> +1 to chosen save
500exp -> gain a Feat
1000exp -> get access to next level of spells
500 exp -> gain more spells per day
etc
etc

Probably needs more thought put into the numbers and some rescaling of experience rewards (maybe like in PFS).


Well, you would give characters a particular number of feats and "talents" to choose from (talents being special abilities) and allow them to make their characters. Of course there would be a set number of skill points and balancing to be done for it. Food for thought.


Also a good thought Salindurthas (god that's a long name to type on a tablet) :-)


Oh, THAT'S what you want? I thought you literally meant no classes.

Well in that case, you're (sort of) in luck. I've sorta kinda finished a first draft of my Freeform Class Selection project which is sort of a "Build your own class" thingamajig utilizing all of the class' abilities as just nuggets of purchasable goodies.

The only "issue" is that Martial classes take about half the points to build, so if you don't see a big Caster/Martial disparity I would suggest you cut a martial's points down a smidge, make it a 3 point per level gain instead of a 5 and it should fix it, just from an eyeballing perspective.

That's something I need to work on, now I think of it, when I get the time.

Drive-by threadjack!

Note: Still utilizes normal level up rules.


Star Wars D6 was pretty much like that. You had 'classes' in only the bases of forms... more like 'pregenerated' characters... but you all had the same skills and abilities and you could advance them as you wanted.

It worked.

World of Darkness is pretty much the same thing. Skills an abilities that you level and raise as you want without any 'class' getting in the way of your goals.

Also works.

So not an unheard of concept, but I really don't think it would work in a genre like this.


Haha! I think I would cope if you shorten it to Salin or Sal.

If I were using a tablet, I may very well complain about your name too!

Anyway, there are many rules systems for other roleplaying that are classless, or handle classes differently.

You could think of every other game as an answer to your question.

Dark Heresy (and the rest of the Warhammer roleplay products) has classes, but each "level" unlocks a new list of things to pick from. So you can't get the "Interrogation +10" skill or the "Psy Rating 2" Talent until you reach level 3, and you may buy those advancements on your way to level 4 (but you could buy other stuff instead).

World of Darkness is classless. You gain experience and can spend it however you like. You could up your Firearms or Academics skills, increase your Strength or Resolve Attributes, or even repent your past misdeeds and buy Morality.

EDIT: I got slightly ninja'd. Meh, whatever.


Rynjin when I'm near my laptop, need to check that out. I was planning this for a modern future game, buuuut I was curious, valid point phantom. Could be difficult, but interesting. :-)


Lol fair enough Sal.


Rynjin wrote:


Drive-by threadjack!

Note: Still utilizes normal level up rules.

This looks nice.

But I didn't find the cost for bonus feats. The only indication as to what they might cost was:

Quote:

Combat Style (Ignore prerequisites for

listed Feats, once chosen cannot be changed. Must still pay 2 points to buy Feats.)

So do bonus feats cost 2 points? Does this depend on the selection you can choose from?


Bonus Feats cost 2 points. You can only ever purchase 1 Bonus Feat per level (but you can receive more from other sources).

If I did not put that in the document, thank you for pointing it out.

Ah, but to stave off further jacking, I would like to endorse my own thread on the subject, so any further questions may go there.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pgbn?Freeform-Class-Selection-or-A-random-idea -I#1

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

If Pathfinder had no classes, it would be Mutants & Masterminds.


The problem I have with a classless system is the more open a system is the more problematic it becomes, or the more bland it has to be. Either you tone down every individual ability, or you end up with the mess that is the summoner. Someone is going to want to be able to do their thing and still have flavorful options, and someone else is going to put all their stuff into being a baddass. If everything you get becomes a choice, the optimizer becomes king, and the people who want a moderately well rounded characters get left in the dust. That and it can be friggan overwhelming to make a character with that many options, but thats probably just me. I've stopped playing Star wars saga edition not because i didnt like it but just because all of those friggan feats and talents are scattered all over the place and it makes it really painstaking to go through all of them to sort out a character.


That may not be entirely accurate Kolokotroni. I've administrated a Play by Post forum with entirely open character creation and we had TONS of diversity among the player characters, but everything was roughly balanced according to the resources invested in the character.

In that case it was points handed out at Character Creation and earned through roleplaying threads, in the Tabletop case the OP is looking for it would be Character Points handed out at Character Creation and at 'level up' periods where the whole party got stronger.

The key here is to use a very flexible system with someone (typically the DM) carefully making sure powers purchased are balanced according to the resources available.

Someone could become a jack of all trades master of none who is never without a decent choice available to him, or dedicate himself down a particular path of development to be great at a given limited skillset but find himself lacking in other fields.


Guys I think the reason that need to be buffed is because have which as we all know is way overpowered.

So, simply giving the to will help to make sure that can compete not only with but also with , , and .

Also, I would just like to state that there is nothing with at this time, they're just in need of some more skill points.

But we know that are just ridiculous, right?

IT IS PANDEMONIUM


I could forsee a SERIOUS lack of variety.

As it is, everytime someone posts a build for a class, some optimizer comes on and points out the 'Right' way to make the character.

In any group of feats and spells there will be 'good ones' and 'Bad ones'. Classes help seperate all the various martial characters. Giving people roles and purposes... if the choice was 'melee' or 'Caster' I have a feeling all the melee would look the same.


Except they wouldn't, if you made clear different options for melee.

Sure all the 'pure beatsticks' would look pretty much the same, but they do anyway.

There are plenty of different ways to do a powerful/effective martial character that, in a flexible freeform system with careful DM management, you'd get tons of variety.


Personally I like classes, especially with the way Pathfinder does it (multi-classing, archetypes). You have a decent amount of variation possible while still giving each character a solid core to help the GM and player understand the character's role in the game. If for some reason none of the classes/archetypes are close enough to what the player wants, you can always allow minor customizations to get there.

There are genres for which I have NOT been able to make this work well (Super hero being one), but in general I use modified Pathfinder rules (with some Modern Path sprinkled in as needed) for Sci Fi, Modern, etc.

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