Cheating GMs


Pathfinder Society

1 to 50 of 144 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
3/5

I understand we all make mistakes behind the screens and such, btu somethings are only explainable by purposely cheating.

If I see something outrageous in a game I will point it out. A honest DM will usually look through the mod to make sure. Then I notice some that just say that is the way it is and move on without reviewing. Those second ones I do not trust and I look over the mod afterwards and so far everytime they were wrong. Leading me to believe they are purposely cheating. If they want to make the mod more fun or if they want to punish me I can not honestly say.

Now I am sure some GMs that that have ran games for me before will read this so I say. If you want to cheat against me because you do nto want me at your table, please let me know before hand. I am an adult and I can leave the table. I have no intention of forcing you to play with me. If you feel I take from other gamers and want me to hold back, just say so.

My question to everyone else is this. What should I do? I feel privately confronting this person that is alreayd lying by cheating the rules would do no good. I am just sayign what if they were a title person in the PFS, what do I do then email their boss?

I make every effort to power game I do not hide that. I buy tons of books and pay paizo for the ability to do this. I accept any limits put on the legality and never complain about things being taken. But if you roll the dice in the open and I can see the roll, or if you take the time to make sure you roll behind the screen just for me and not ANYONE else, come on.

Grand Lodge 3/5

I honestly think the best way would be to talk to them about it. Start off nice, something like "Hey I got the scenario you ran so I could run it next, and I noticed this part was a little different that what happened. Is there a thread I need to read with some clarification on it?"

Or if you don't want to beat around the bush, just come out and say it. "Hey are you fudging the stuff on me"

Now I will say this, if I have a table with power gamers at it. I try to push them as much as I can within the confines of the scenario. Running the combat to the best of my ability to try and give them the most fun. Maybe that is what is going on?

3/5

Well when a die roll come on the table in a level 7 mod at a 4 for a dc 21 save. Cheating that guys will save that much is pretty blatant. In tide of twilight at level 2 being hit for 12 damage from an ax trap int he first scene. Is to punish me. Fighting a bearded devil and causing bleed and disease with the polearm at close range when told that reach weapons to do not hit adjecnt. Is pretty bad.

If I learn and get punished for my mistake I appreciate my DMs for that, but while I am playing if it is pretty undisputable. It makes me want to grab my stuff and leave the table. I feel the same when players do it too though.

5/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.

If you think the GM is not running the game correctly and you feel that it is being directed at you then you need to talk to the coordinator... if it's a VO, then you need to email Mike directly.

Posting on the boards just causes more problems then it's worth

Shadow Lodge 3/5

The short answer to this that I've heard is to stop playing with that GM.

5/5

Avatar-1 wrote:
The short answer to this that I've heard is to stop playing with that GM.

In some areas that can be difficult to do .. the best option if you don't feel that you're going to get a straight answer is to contact either the coordinator or Mike and let them deal with it as a impartial third party.

3/5

Plain rude? But it is polite to cheat someone? It is rude if you are wrong. It might be rude if I call them out. I never said who, but they know who they are. These were specific events that people at the table were at would know. They deserve to know we were cheated. I think it is rude to lie to them and not let them know.

So if my character dies because a DM cheats just grin and bare it and tattle to someone else, and then what? Maybe I might get to play my character again if I can definitevly prove what they did.

If someone wants me to prove this and who it is I announced at the table the issue. This obviously upsets me

If I pay money to play at a con I do not decide who my GM is. Sometimes they throw whoever at me. Plus do you want a DM like that at your table?

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Finlanderboy wrote:

Plain rude? But it is polite to cheat someone? It is rude if you are wrong. It might be rude if I call them out. I never said who, but they know who they are. These were specific events that people at the table were at would know. They deserve to know we were cheated. I think it is rude to lie to them and not let them know.

So if my character dies because a DM cheats just grin and bare it and tattle to someone else, and then what? Maybe I might get to play my character again if I can definitevly prove what they did.

If someone wants me to prove this and who it is I announced at the table the issue. This obviously upsets me

I re-read and amended my post ...

I get that this is upsetting, however, I think you need to take just a moment and breath for a second. Ranting on the forums isn't going to solve this, it's only going to make it worse.

Take a second, clear your head and then email either your VC or Mike that is going to be the best course of action if you feel that you are being directly targeted

Silver Crusade 5/5

Cheating after all is such a loaded term.

Purple fluffy catbunny gnome has some excellent advice.

3/5

I don't think calling out your gm at the table in the middle of the game is particularly...kosher. Since you've obviously gm'ed some tables, you should know that sometimes stuff changes, sometimes dramatically. I don't memorize line for line the entire module, and I doubt you do either. and by the way, they're human, just like you, too. They make mistakes, just. like. you.

so getting explosively angry does no one any good, especially when it's hardly likely said gm is going to view the post while you're still angry. now onto the core of the problem.

You've openly admitted to being a power gamer. on the one hand, great. you know all the rules, bend and twist them to fit, and I'll bet if you slide one under the radar, hey, it's the gm's job to catch you, am I right? The problem comes in when the gm is trying to make something challenging for you. If you cakewalk everything, I'm betting money you're the only one talking at the table.

So the gm isn't playing fair. I get that. but if you're always at odds, no matter what the gm brings to the table, then how's the gm supposed to act? Just humbly hand over the chronicle at the onset?

Perhaps you could have started this whole standoff with a simple courtesy, like staying after to privately ask why he did what he did? Tell him how you felt the gm was running against your character/you. As well, don't hound him about running the module, just because you've read/memorized/played it before. He could be trying to change things for that exact reason, you're metagaming, and he's trying to thwart it.

But you'll never know unless you initiate a direct, and polite dialogue with him or her.

3/5

I think this is a fair post. Because I believe I am not the only effected by this. I also feel that saying this will cause GMs to think about cheating. That they can be caught. It is not a secret that people will remember and can look over the mods.

I think the DM(s) that cheated me are otherwise great DMs. I want them to change and tattling will cause resentment. Infact I know it will. If I have a problem with a player I will approach that player. Since it is my problem I am having with him it is my duty to talk to him. I think all DMs should feel the same way too. If I feel a player is wrecking the game I call a break and chat with them.

I think it is sophomoric to keep things in and get back at them in game play.

3/5

No you are not right. I make a point to never cheat and I am a little offened you accuse me of such. I will correct DMs all the time. My core character has a 5 strength. I always point out this liability. I also have never read a mod I did not plan to DM before hand. Shadowmage your application of the standard person problem to me is insulting. I would like to say I amsorry but you accuse me of things I do not do. But I am not sorry just annoyed. I feel you did not read my post and just are assuming to much.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, in regards to not looking at the scenario after somebody asks a question, there are, at times, scenarios that I've prepped and went, "Wait, that's not right..." Then, I reviewed those rules thoroughly. Several times people have asked me about some of those things, and I've just given them an answer without looking. It's not that I'm trying to cheat anybody, I just don't feel like making a show of looking something up that I've read 4 times before and thought seriously about before running the scenario.

5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Finlanderboy wrote:

I think this is a fair post. Because I believe I am not the only effected by this. I also feel that saying this will cause GMs to think about cheating. That they can be caught. It is not a secret that people will remember and can look over the mods.

I think the DM(s) that cheated me are otherwise great DMs. I want them to change and tattling will cause resentment. Infact I know it will. If I have a problem with a player I will approach that player. Since it is my problem I am having with him it is my duty to talk to him. I think all DMs should feel the same way too. If I feel a player is wrecking the game I call a break and chat with them.

I think it is sophomoric to keep things in and get back at them in game play.

Making accusations of cheating is a serious thing. And you're right it can cause resentment. Posting about this on the forums is a sure way to cause more resentment. Emailing the powers that can work towards fixing this is the sure way to avoid resentment and clear the air. Continually posting about this is only going to continue to hurt your case

I realize you're upset... I realize you want justice.... I realize you probably don't give a rat's a$$ about what I have to say. But before you make blanket statements about cheating you need to make sure that you have all the facts and that you handle things appropriately. Right now you sound like a little child who had their favorite toy taken away so you're crying.

If you can be man enough to approach a player when you think they are messing up, then man up and approach the GM. FYI DM is a trademarked term and shouldn't be used in regards to Paizo GMs (since we're supposed to call people out on things)

Generally GMs don't set out to cheat the player, they go into a game with the intent to run a fun interesting game. If there is a power gamer at the table that diminishes the full for all (but the power gamer because that is their fun).

As a Gm you should understand this and be a bit more cautious about making blanket accusations in regards to people. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt based on the beginning of the thread, but more and more you're sounding like a spoiled child.

3/5

I do not want justice. If I wanted justice I would email people. I am sorry you look at me that way. I think you are wrong. I do care about what you say because I am responding. I repect you as an individual enough to answer with thought and as much honets logic I can provide.

I feel cheating is a form of lying. If they cheat in front of me directly over and over. Then there are some common denominators. I think it is fair to assume they will lie again. You are right though I should approach them, but either way I still think this is a fair forum to post such things. I can not be the only one.

I honestly believe you are attempting to upset me to prove your point, and that is annoying. You are obvisouly smart and could pick less offensive words. You choose them for a reason, maybe I assume wrong.

FYI trademarks can be used for education purposes. Since it still shows my point and I am not profiting form the use of it, it is considered in fair use. If I as making fun of D&D and I used DM that would be fair use also. So in this context meh.

3/5

Getting all huffy about the DM cheating you in particular is really the opposite of productive. My 2cp is that if someone called me out on a rules thing and then after the game comes up and accuses me of cheating to my face they certainly won't be welcome back at my table and quite frankly I would warn other DMs about the player as likely to be disruptive.

It destroyes the entire atmosphere of a table if you have one player who for some reason starts thinking that the DM is out to get them and starts looking for every way to blame bad things that happen to them on someone else. We don't need those players in PFS.

Dark Archive 4/5

I do not see the issue the same way that you do, it can simply be a reading issue in some cases, such as for example one of your complaints is actually wrong and the GM was correct.

In the cases where the GM is obviously wrong such as the bearded devil you should correct them, but in other cases where its not obvious such as your other examples live with what the GM says

Tide of Twilight:
"In tide of twilight at level 2 being hit for 12 damage from an ax trap int he first scene" in tier 1-2 the axe trap does exist and has the following stats attack +10 damage 2d6+4 which is entirely possible to hit for 12, while the stats for the trap appear AFTER the 4-5 monsters it is clear from the preceding paragraph that the axe trap exists at both tiers however the javelin trap only exists at tier 4-5

5/5

Finlanderboy wrote:

I do not want justice. If I wanted justice I would email people. I am sorry you look at me that way. I think you are wrong. I do care about what you say because I am responding. I repect you as an individual enough to answer with thought and as much honets logic I can provide.

I feel cheating is a form of lying. If they cheat in front of me directly over and over. Then there are some common denominators. I think it is fair to assume they will lie again. You are right though I should approach them, but either way I still think this is a fair forum to post such things. I can not be the only one.

I honestly believe you are attempting to upset me to prove your point, and that is annoying. You are obvisouly smart and could pick less offensive words. You choose them for a reason, maybe I assume wrong.

FYI trademarks can be used for education purposes. Since it still shows my point and I am not profiting form the use of it, it is considered in fair use. If I as making fun of D&D and I used DM that would be fair use also. So in this context meh.

If my words upset you, then that is on you. I'm being nothing but honest with you and the attitude you are portraying in this thread.

Cheating is a form of lying, that I will agree with you on, however, if you have any respect for the game, for the group that you are in, you'd contact the coordinator and have it dealt with.

If you don't want justice then what do you want? Just a place to gripe and have people commiserate with you? I don't think you'll find in on here with the attitude that you have.

If you want the situation resolved you'll take the steps you need to to resolve it... if all you want is to gripe and moan then say it now so that we stop wasting our "breath" in telling you how to resolve the situation

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

If I believe I knew the situation, I probable wountnt look it up either. There is not enough time for that in many scenarios.

Have fun at the table then work it out later or let it go and be happy that you got to be a PC and not the GM.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Netopalis wrote:
Well, in regards to not looking at the scenario after somebody asks a question, there are, at times, scenarios that I've prepped and went, "Wait, that's not right..." Then, I reviewed those rules thoroughly. Several times people have asked me about some of those things, and I've just given them an answer without looking. It's not that I'm trying to cheat anybody, I just don't feel like making a show of looking something up that I've read 4 times before and thought seriously about before running the scenario.

This.

Sometimes there are rules issues into which I've invested dozens of hours and thousands of words and dozens of pages of discussion until an eventual developer response that most people will never read unless I show it to them resolves the matter.

Sometimes I'm the guy who starts the thread that produces a FAQ entry.

Sometimes a player will "correct" me at the table with an interpretation of a rule that I've already heard, deconstructed, and thoroughly debunked multiple times and have libraries of developer commentary to back up, some of which I could quote from memory because I've had to reference it so many times to so many people.

And apparently, sometimes a player might leave the table thinking I've cheated just because I didn't visibly flip through any dead trees the moment they challenged me.

3/5

tide of twilight:
There was an extra trap. This was outside the gnomes home in the begining. Me being the castor was third in line. It activated on me and only hit me.

Do some DMs purposely cheat? I think you would be a fool to say none do. Should we ignore it? Again I think you would be a fool to say no. Should we ask for help or ideas on it? Again a fool would say no. This is why I am here. Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome you made your point? If you want to call me a spoiled child you alrady have implied it. Now make another point or please stop trying to provoke me.

1/5

I play a caster that attacks saves as well, and I know that both there are varying degrees of hate for these characters among GMs and varying amounts of ruin these characters can bring to the table. I have accepted that my character can bypass a lot of the "fun" in a scenario and don't get too bent out of shape when I suspect that that dice are fudged or that spells are ruled bad when I think that is the reason for the fudge. Now if that fudge ever resulted in an actual death, I may be singing a different tune. Even when I am "surprised" to see a tough DC spell not stick, after the beatsticks have failed to take the situation under control, I am not surprised to see my character save the day. I am still ok with this.

As to your high damage trap, I am not trying to claim it is right, but when I ran my home game for a couple of years I would design almost every encounter to bring at least one character close to death without actually killing them. That may be the person's goal in beefing the trap.

Is this ok for the GM to do in either case? According to PFS no, and understandable so. I have a job that requires enforcing standards for a great number of people. Actually changing the rules to make corner cases work "better" would wreck the entire institution. Do I make exceptions "behind the screen" to try and make things better for corner cases? Yep.

I, like you, would like to see my DC attackers perform to their highest potential. But as long as the deviation doesn't get egregious, I accept that there are a lot of people at the table that the GM is trying to play to.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

My Internet dream:

I have a magic, superfast computer that archives every messageboard post anywhere. Five years from now I gather every internet user in one (gigantic) room and hand them each a printout with 100 posts from five years past. I ask each user to grade every message based on how rude, obnoxious, or egotistical the poster is being. I give them an hour or two to finish. Then I make my announcement:

"Everyone, your sheets have been individually personalized. Posts 3, 22, 57, and 72 were written by you. Have a nice day."

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I think that there is confusion about what you want Finlanderboy.

What exactly do you want to have happen as a result of posting on this board?

Answering this question may help you get what you want.

3/5

A few things. I believe GMs intentionally cheat. Before I started PFS I heard a GM brag about how he killed someothers character with a crit he cheated. Now that is heresay and he could be making it up. Either way it exsists. This is meant to be heavily rule oriented and fair. I want those types of DMs to know people notice.

I honestly believe the way to hell is paved with good intentions, and that if left unchecked it will get worse.

I want people to recognize that this is a problem and that pretending it does not happen and judging somones character for bringing it up is fair.

Honestly the one GM I will still play with that was targeting me is capable of being a great DM. I would love to have him know without me saying it to his face. I think it very well could make the situation much worse. Some people get very agresive when caught red handed. I even offered an out for any GM with me.

To me this is an abuse of power. I have been playing since last june and I have a star already so I DM my fair share. I think it is unjust and should be talked about. People should complain about it. To hide and pretend it did not happen makes it worse.

Dark Archive 4/5

'Cheating' is a very heavy term and I am completely adverse to using it at the table, as a coordinator and on these boards. It carries heavy connotations and I hope you have thought about this before posting to the forums.

GMs are the ultimate adjudicators at their table. That being said, if you feel a GM is picking on you or being a jerk, you need to work this out with the GM. If that doesn't work, talk to the coordinator. If that doesn't work, the VO. If that doesn't work, escalate to Mike Brock.

4/5

Finlanderboy wrote:
Honestly the one GM I will still play with that was targeting me is capable of being a great DM.

Just out of curiosity, how large was this list of GMs before it got whittled down to one?


redward wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:
Honestly the one GM I will still play with that was targeting me is capable of being a great DM.
Just out of curiosity, how large was this list of GMs before it got whittled down to one?

That sentence is ambiguous. I certainly hope he meant that out of all the GMs who had targeted him he is still playing with one of them, rather than that he now has only one GM he's willing to play with.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

There is absolutely nothing in this entire hobby that should evoke strong negativity.

At the end of the day, it is just a damn game.

If folks find themselves actually angry, really angry about something in a game (and I've seen it more than a few times), it is perhaps a good time to take a step back and ask if perhaps they are a little TOO emotionally invested in something that is supposed to be entertainment.

I've run into situations where I KNOW a GM or player is fudging the rules. If it's minor, I may just shrug and let it be. If it's more significant, I'll talk with them afterwards. If that doesn't help, I let the powers that be know, in this case the event staff, VCs, or Mike.

Then I move on. Whatever. It's done, and at most I'll try avoiding that person again. It's not worth wasting further time and energy on.

Obsessing over the incidents isn't healthy, and coming here to vent one's spleen and spew bile at a bunch of people that really don't deserve the tirade is just petty.

-j

The Exchange 2/5

I think CatBunnyGnome has some merit to the point that this is coming off like you are trying to form some sort of rally with pitchforks, torches, and banners saying "Death to Cheating GMS." And while I do not agree with cheating, simply solve the problem with all of the methods already stated on this post or just drop it. Ranting and raving really goes no where whether this supposed cheating GM reads it or not.

The Exchange 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

@Finlander - I want to preface my post with this. It's not clear what you want unless what you want is you guilt-trip your GM into being better or at least not targeting you.

I personally think you should confront him, not with a big stick in your hands, be polite and say something like "hey man, this happened and I felt like you were specifically targeting me, what's up"

Whether or not this is the appropriate place for this discussion (I personally don't think it is). Finlander does have fairly specific examples.

A couple people have mentioned that accusing GMs of cheating is heavy-handed/loaded. The examples given are outright cheating and should be labeled as such. Now this is the internet and there could be exaggerations, but I'm going to choose to believe that the situations Finlander described happened as described as he specifically didn't call out GMs by name so he's not out for blood.

cheating on a save negates spell as a GM to make a fight more interesting is certainly unfair, and it's not an appropriate way to handle the situation.

Posting on the forums to hope your GM reads that you're calling him out on the open internet to avoid a confrontation isn't a good way to handle the situation either.

If I were your GM and I was cheating/targeting you because I thought your character was taking too much of a spotlight, and then I read this thread despite your compliments I wouldn't want you to play at my tables anymore.

****THIS ASSUMES THAT FINLADER'S ACCUSATIONS ARE TRUE AND THE GM IN QUESTION BROKE THE RULES****
To be perfectly clear, this is not the place, you'll get a lot less resentment from a GM if you say "hey I noticed you rolled a 4 and then said you made a save against DC 21, can you either show me the monster's saves, or explain why he passed?"

This gives your GM the most fair option, either they man-up and tell you why they are targeting you, they apologize and explain that they looked at the wrong tier or whatever, Or they completely deny that it happened and are unwilling to be reasonable.

In the last of those options, don't play with them anymore and report them, obviously they feel this behavior is OK and they will continue to do it, which is simply not OK for the campaign as a whole.

At that point you have to bring down the hammer. It's no different than non-confrontational GMs that catch player's cheating. They have to be asked to stop and if they don't comply they have to be asked to stop playing in order to maintain a fair game.

3/5

the only cheating i've ever seen a gm do is when, after an obvious critical hit against a player, he will ask 'how many hp do you have left, and what is your con?' before telling you how much damage he does to you

of course i didn't see the dice in question, but when that x3 crit just happens to put you close to death but not dead... :)

5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Finlanderboy wrote:


Do some DMs purposely cheat? I think you would be a fool to say none do. Should we ignore it?

So you say that I'm a cheater as a GM?? That is a pretty bold accusations considering we have more than likely never met and you have more than likely never sat at my table. I think you need to stop making blanket accusations and deal with the situation as an adult and not use the forums as a soapbox.

I'm not trying to provoke you, that would be like kicking a puppy and I don't do that. However, I do feel that I'm being honest and trying to call you on the attitude and tone that you are presenting.

We have given you the best possible options for correcting the situation, but you state that you don't want justice and aren't going to email the people that can correct the issue, and you apparently aren't going to confront the GM yourself.

Here is my last suggestion .. either man up and confront the GM, email the people that need to be emailed to deal with this, or let it go.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Do some GMs cheat? With the number of GMs in the PFS world it would be silly to make a claim that at least one doesnt. The odds are some do. The reality is that its a tiny problem. The odds are also that the GM your suggesting isnt cheating.

Have you considered that your mistaken? Its easy to misread dice from across a table or even right in front of it. Happens to me every time I play. I have misread my own dice and had to recant an optimal situation. It happens.

Have you considered that the GM isn't targeting anyone? I know many power gamers (closeted and outspoken). Each of them express this problem each time something doesnt go in their favor. It is easy to spotlight a single occasion and ignore the rest, its human nature. Its hard to evenly review the complete situation and still come up with the same conclusion.

Just like the GM makes the choice to cheat as you claim, you also make choices every time you sit at a table to play. You have the choice to not sit at all, enjoy the game for any aspect you chose, or not enjoy it at all. In this case, you seem to have chosen to not enjoy it at all yet sit and play.

What is your modivation to play? Is it to do the most damage, participate in a group activity, enjoy a plot, maybe break a scenerio. Im not saying any of these are wrong or right. But, you may find your answer is not meeting up with those around you. This in itself will cause tension and may be spotlighting nothing into something as compensation.

You have mentioned that your comfortable speaking with players. Speak to the GM. Hopefully in a civil and non-accusitory way. You may find that all those questions I posed are not without merit.

If your going to be as hostile as you have been in this thread, you may want to reconsider talking to anyone. Evaluate your modivations and consider the posiblities your ignoring. Based on pure odds alone, your probably mistaken about many things and the thread posts you have made may point to them.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm a GM. I lie, I cheat, and I steal.

Spoiler:
In character! ;)

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Finlanderboy, I notice one of the things you keep repeating in this thread is that we (the PFS community) shouldn't ignore the issue of cheating GMs or pretend it doesn't happen, etc.

Who's suggesting we should? Multiple people have suggested very specific courses of action for dealing with cheating GMs. That doesn't sound like "ignoring" the issue to me.

Everything that I can tell you're wanting from this thread, you're getting. But you still seem unsatisfied, like you're still after something. So what's still missing? What are you looking for?

5/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Jiggy wrote:

Finlanderboy, I notice one of the things you keep repeating in this thread is that we (the PFS community) shouldn't ignore the issue of cheating GMs or pretend it doesn't happen, etc.

Who's suggesting we should? Multiple people have suggested very specific courses of action for dealing with cheating GMs. That doesn't sound like "ignoring" the issue to me.

Everything that I can tell you're wanting from this thread, you're getting. But you still seem unsatisfied, like you're still after something. So what's still missing? What are you looking for?

ya know Jiggy .. I'm of the opinion that he doesn't want to resolve it, insteads wants to keep this thread going to feed into some sort of narcissistic need for attention and as long as we are still posting in this sham of a thread and responding to him he is going to get that.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:


Do some DMs purposely cheat? I think you would be a fool to say none do. Should we ignore it?

So you say that I'm a cheater as a GM??

In the spirit of fairness, he did say some GMs cheat - not you cheat. I will offer you the advice you gave him, which was if those words upset you in a personal way then that is on you.

To echo the sentiment of others though, I would suggest you simply approach your GMs and ask them what is up. I can understand your frustration though.

There are a few folks in hobbies such as this who are just bitter and want to rain on your parade. To that end, I can understand why Finlanderboy might feel a bit dismayed. My personal PFS experience here in Columbus has been of good folks who just sometimes make mistakes, though. I personally have accidentally read the entirely wrong tier of a scenario for an encounter more than once. They are all bunched together you know. ;)

"What do you mean his will save is +16!?"

"Oh, woops! My bad there, that was for tier 10-11. Let me flip back quick, sorry fellas!"

Sczarni 5/5 *

Jiggy wrote:

Finlanderboy, I notice one of the things you keep repeating in this thread is that we (the PFS community) shouldn't ignore the issue of cheating GMs or pretend it doesn't happen, etc.

Who's suggesting we should? Multiple people have suggested very specific courses of action for dealing with cheating GMs. That doesn't sound like "ignoring" the issue to me.

Everything that I can tell you're wanting from this thread, you're getting. But you still seem unsatisfied, like you're still after something. So what's still missing? What are you looking for?

^^This.

Talk to the guy in a calm manner and see if you guys can work it out.

5/5

Lormyr wrote:
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:


Do some DMs purposely cheat? I think you would be a fool to say none do. Should we ignore it?

So you say that I'm a cheater as a GM??

In the spirit of fairness, he did say some GMs cheat - not you cheat. I will offer you the advice you gave him, which was if those words upset you in a personal way then that is on you.

Lol .. you've mistaken me for someone that can be offended. Nope .. his words haven't bothered me in the slightest.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
Lol .. you've mistaken me for someone that can be offended. Nope .. his words haven't bothered me in the slightest.

Hah! No sweat there, I just call em like I see em. ;) We seem to share that trait!

I'm sure by your post you used that for simple example purposes, but one of my major pet peeves is true word-twisting. I can sympathize with Finlander though, so I thought I'd just toss a little out there in his defense. Poor guy is a bit beset on all sides at this point. ;)

I've had only good experiences with PFS so far, but to be fair me and the lads (and Leslie!) just started back in November. I distinctly remember the utter dickishness of some DMs from 3.5 living Greyhawk, though. I got myself kicked out of Origins once about 7 years ago when the DM at our table was being an extremely aggressive assbag to a younger player at our table. Killed the poor kid off under highly suspect circumstances, then threatened him when he started to tear up a little, so I stood up and slapped the taste out of his mouth. I was told it left a welt on him cheek the size of a shoe. Totally worth the price of admission.

5/5

Lormyr wrote:
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
Lol .. you've mistaken me for someone that can be offended. Nope .. his words haven't bothered me in the slightest.

Hah! No sweat there, I just call em like I see em. ;) We seem to share that trait!

I'm sure by your post you used that for simple example purposes, but one of my major pet peeves is true word-twisting. I can sympathize with Finlander though, so I thought I'd just toss a little out there in his defense. Poor guy is a bit beset on all sides at this point. ;)

I've had only good experiences with PFS so far, but to be fair me and the lads (and Leslie!) just started back in November. I distinctly remember the utter dickishness of some DMs from 3.5 living Greyhawk, though. I got myself kicked out of Origins once about 7 years ago when the DM at our table was being an extremely aggressive assbag to a younger player at our table. Killed the poor kid off under highly suspect circumstances, then threatened him when he started to tear up a little, so I stood up and slapped the taste out of his mouth. I was told it left a welt on him cheek the size of a shoe. Totally worth the price of admission.

hehe ... I also dislike blanket statments and that seems to be the all encompassing theme of the posts .. all GMs cheat. We don't.

and I would have done the same thing to that DM.. good for you. Hopfully your PFS adventures are easier.


Finlanderboy, is English your second language? I ask cause its mine too and it seems like its the case.


I roll out in front of people - luck goes in runs but if people see the dice they know its not 'influenced' as well.

The variable for me is with the implementation of the tactics, say the spells of a wizard or the targetting of a wounded/vulnerable player. I don't like killing characters off (just hurting them a bit) unless it is at the climax of a story or a dramatic conclusion.

Is that cheating? Well it certainly is a variability in my behaviour as a DM in that the big bad guys will more blatantly go for the kill (and I would like to think I do not have favourites so it applies to all players) but as I see it by and large my players benefit from my choices more than they might be penalised.

1/5

6 people marked this as a favorite.

One more time, with feeling:

Guys something happened in my game
but I am going to be very general and vague about it
and then tell you that it happens in your games too

so why do almost all of you let this happen in your games?

Specific individual experiences are specific and individual.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

strayshift wrote:
but as I see it by and large my players benefit from my choices more than they might be penalised.

Every GM believes this of themselves. Including the GM with decades of experience who needed Mike Brock to fix his train wreck. That's why we're not supposed to change things (like which spells a wizard has prepared). We all think we know how to change things for the better, but we can't all be right. You will never meet a GM who thinks "Lots of other GMs can do a good job of changing things to improve their players' experience, but not me, so I'd better just stick to what the scenario says." There are plenty of GMs for whom the statement would be true, but none who honestly believes it of themselves.


Jiggy wrote:
strayshift wrote:
but as I see it by and large my players benefit from my choices more than they might be penalised.
Every GM believes this of themselves. Including the GM with decades of experience who needed Mike Brock to fix his train wreck. That's why we're not supposed to change things (like which spells a wizard has prepared). We all think we know how to change things for the better, but we can't all be right. You will never meet a GM who thinks "Lots of other GMs can do a good job of changing things to improve their players' experience, but not me, so I'd better just stick to what the scenario says." There are plenty of GMs for whom the statement would be true, but none who honestly believes it of themselves.

Except what Strayshift and you are talking about are two different things. He's not talking about the example you listed in your post. Nor is he talking removing mooks as the "multi-decade-nal" GM you are calling out.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Chalk Microbe wrote:
He's not talking about the example you listed in your post.
The example I listed in my post wrote:
like which spells a wizard has prepared
What he's apparently not talking about...? wrote:
The variable for me is with ... the spells of a wizard

Did I miss something?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I interpreted strayshift to mean that he implemented better or worse tactics with the spells the wizard chose to cast, and in the order they were cast - not which spells were prepared.

I guess only strayshift knows...

4/5

Jiggy wrote:
Chalk Microbe wrote:
He's not talking about the example you listed in your post.
The example I listed in my post wrote:
like which spells a wizard has prepared
What he's apparently not talking about...? wrote:
The variable for me is with ... the spells of a wizard
Did I miss something?

He could mean which spells the wizard uses, rather than what spells he has memorized. The tactics usually only specify the first one or two.

1 to 50 of 144 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Cheating GMs All Messageboards