Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see GW offering Kickstater perks once OE begins. As Dario noted, it may be offered to those who didn't have an opportunity to back the KS campaign, and will be offered to those who did but didn't choose it once the fulfillment system is ready at the end of this month (since they will be allowed to add on more add-ons), but perks for early backing are just that - perks for those who backed this project early to thank them for that early backing. It is how every KS campaign works, and I have backed many KS projects.
Since nothing is finalized until the reward/fulfillment system is in place, GW could always open it up, as Ryan has said he might, to new people looking to donate. However this will occur, if at all, long before even EE occurs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That one is a maybe, since GW caved in and changed the Capstone system, they don't seem keen to lock people out of content. Since twice-marked description mentions content and mechanical benefits, I'm guessing you will be able to purchase it.
I'm guessing the addons like 'hellknights most wanted' and 'memorial of honor' will not be available post-KS-fulfillment, things that mark the world permanently. But all the stuff like player packs, and regional traits will be available for purchase once the RMT store is opened.
A note to clarify below, the fulfillment tool is for people who pledged for the 2nd kickstarter. If you pledged, you can increase your contribution, and gain additional rewards. The general message: don't wait too long.
You MAY be able to buy an account with Destiny's Twin when we open the Fulfillment Tool. This is envisioned as a way to allow people who missed the Kickstarter to get some (but not all) of the benefits we offered to Kickstarters directly. It is a virtual certainty that at some point we will start removing options from the Fulfillment tool, and by the time we get to Early Enrollment, many benefits, almost certainly including Destiny's Twin, will be unavailable.
So, if you pledged $1 or more to kickstarter 2, you can upgrade. Otherwise you will probably have to wait until the cash shop opens.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The first part of his quote
This is envisioned as a way to allow people who missed the Kickstarter to get some (but not all) of the benefits we offered to Kickstarters directly.implies it will let new people pledge.
By "not all" they probably mean the latecomers will not get printed books and miniatures.
If PFO is following the Eve model no one will have any longterm advantages. In Eve everyone starts equal and eventually after a few years everyone has maxed all useful skills so everyone ends equal. Any "bonus stuff" seems limited to things like get a different colored ship.
Yea, one cool thing, to me, was Ryan's insistence that PFO wouldn't have any "pay to win" items in the cash shop. I know many games say that then change their mind and start slipping stuff in, but I don't think GW is that sort of company.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We helped GW raise over a million dollars. I'd be very very disappointed in them if they opened up any of the perks that make characters stand out for yet more cash even past the halfway point of development.
Regional trait packs, new adventurer kits, .pdfs etc. aren't special so give them away all you want. Shieldbearer Mark depends on others having it so use it until EE. But things like the fountain, the title, or twice marked are supposed to make your character stand out and not be available to just anyone after the KS.
(Don't baste me about people people who just missed the KS, the mark I used for early support was at latest halfway through development which is Q3 2013 on the current timetable)
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Goblin Squad Member
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RSI (Chris Robert's Star Citizen) quadrupled their donation-base from their kickstarter by offering various perks and in-game items once they got their own website up.
What portion of the game's regular income comes from selling 'xp accrual time' is what will define whether it will make sense for GW to offer destiny's twin after launch. If it is a large portion then it seems unlikely that they would commit half that share of income before they even launch.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan has mentioned many times there will be a "Fulfillment Period", but the details have not been announced. It sounded like there would be some features available that were provided to KS supporters, but at a higher cost, or not as good. The KS supporters need to be rewarded for their risk in putting up the cash first. But GW isn't stupid...they can still make money providing lesser perks for more cash. It makes perfect business sense to do so.
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Goblin Squad Member
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RSI isnt an mmo though.
Hm. Might want to think about that.
"There will be public servers that we host for the main universe/game. The universe is going to be a persistent living entity, where your actions, (discovering a jump point and successfully navigating its jump for the first time, designing a ship for sale in the online shops, winning a key in-game battle etc.), will be woven into the history and lore of the game. We really want the universe to be shaped, both by your actions and created user content… to really embrace the passion and creativity of the core fans. A central server system for the persistent universe will be required to assure security, prevent cheating and other bad behavior. We also plan to provide a version that allows private servers similar to Freelancer to be maintained and run by the pilot communities. These would support single and multiplayer space combat battles where teams could hone their skills without having to use the public servers."From the RSI FAQ: Q: Will your servers be public or private?
Further, for the space combat alpha phase they intend 200,000 pilots testing it (FAQ Q: What is your online revenue model).
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CEO, Goblinworks
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When we are ready to let folks back the project on our own site outside of Kickstarter we'll carefully consider what aspects of the Kickstarter rewards we make available. And over time we'll likely make changes, usually removing things (this will be especially linked to the physical rewards because at some point we have to make a production decision about how much to manufacturer and we won't want to re-make things).
There should also be some stuff that you got as Kickstarters that later folks won't get. There's a certain level of "thank you" implied in that that I am comfortable with.
The Twice-Marked thing is really ethereal. Until we decide exactly what it will do, it's hard to comment on if, for how long, and at what price we might make it available on a continuing basis.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Twice-Marked thing is really ethereal. Until we decide exactly what it will do, it's hard to comment on if, for how long, and at what price we might make it available on a continuing basis.
Thanks Ryan. This was exactly what I was wondering. Until I know what it does I am not comfortable dropping money on it. But I am risk averse so maybe I don't deserve to be twice marked. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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When we are ready to let folks back the project on our own site outside of Kickstarter we'll carefully consider what aspects of the Kickstarter rewards we make available. And over time we'll likely make changes, usually removing things (this will be especially linked to the physical rewards because at some point we have to make a production decision about how much to manufacturer and we won't want to re-make things).
There should also be some stuff that you got as Kickstarters that later folks won't get. There's a certain level of "thank you" implied in that that I am comfortable with.
The Twice-Marked thing is really ethereal. Until we decide exactly what it will do, it's hard to comment on if, for how long, and at what price we might make it available on a continuing basis.
Ill be honest, take the physical rewards out and offer the virtual (game only) rewards. Id only do the kickstarter equivalent for the first month or so, then tone them down step by step.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here's what I would set up:
1. EE Pre-Order Digital Collectors Edition($100)
-Digital copy of the game
-3 months of game time
-Entry to Early Enrollment(first come first serve)
-Player pack
-Alliance Pack
-Soundtrack download
-Behind the Scenes PDF
-Goblin Squad Membership
2. EE Pre-Order Standard ($50)
-Digital copy of the game
-1 month of game time
-Player Pack
-Goblin Squad membership
3. OE Pre-Order Digital Collectors Edition($80)
-Digital copy of the game
-2 months of game time
-Player pack
-Alliance Pack
-Soundtrack download
-Behind the Scenes PDF
-Goblin Squad Membership
Addons:
1. Class Pack ($10)
2. Honorable Title ($10)
3. Player Pack ($15)
4. Regional Trait Pack ($15)
5. Alliance Pack ($20)
6. Twice-Marked of Pharasma ($20)
7. Three Months of Game Time ($35)
8. 1 Year of Game Time ($120)
I left off the misfeatures re-paints, because those should only be available to kickstarters, along with the limited runs of the Print pack. People can get the regular miniatures that already exist, and the books when they are released to the general public. And the Memorial and Hellknights aren't there because they involve permanent in-game recognition, which should be exclusive to kickstarters.
All other kickstarter rewards I didn't mention, should be only available to people who pledged, and obtained by increasing their donation with the fulfillment tool.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I know they plan to have an Alpha purchase available to start the further crowdfunding.
I know they plan to have the dual training available, which will only be a free thing in the very beginning and for kickstarters. After that it will cost.
I don't know how you can 'know' either of these things.
To my knowledge neither has been stated by GW.
We 'know' that GW MAY sell destiny's twin accounts for a limited time. But I think that would be unwise. GW does not need to create extra incentives like they did in the kickstarter. Each destiny's twin account can be seen as a lifetime sub that GW lost. They stand to make more money if they just sell pre-purchases.
IMO they should pick the remaining alpha slots from the community, they need more than just people who can dish out cash to test their game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I know these things becouse I asked. They arent going to post everything on the forums. Email the right people and they tell you things.
Why would it be unwise to sell destinys twin? Of course they need to make extra incentives like the kickstarter. They are still in the building phase of the game.
For me, I will have two accounts, with or without destinys twin.
Honestly though, and Im not trying to make you mad, but will with this statement...
The kickstarter guys, are trying to be the "HAHA we found the kickstarter first, we get stuff and you dont." But thats a typical gamer elitist attitude.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sorry Guys
Your right, it was a lame blanket judgement.
I just hear it so much, it gets on my nerves. I hear it with every game Ive played. Even the PnP people do that all the time... "I have this and my character is this level and blah blah."
Be proud of what you have, but strive to build up others as well.
I just feel that the company deserves to gain more crowdfunding from everyone to make us a great game. I know they will do awesome with it. I also think we all should have the opportunity to get in on some of the early benefits.
I know they cannot do it forever. I personally dont want the extras from the kickstarter, but some of the PFO stuff would be cool.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For the record, I have no objection whatsoever to anyone else getting any of the benefits I've already gotten, although I would be disappointed if they got them at a lower price.
I agree. As long as the "price" remains the same, even though they aren't getting the .pdf's and other physical items, I have no problem with others getting the same in-game perks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For the record, I have no objection whatsoever to anyone else getting any of the benefits I've already gotten, although I would be disappointed if they got them at a lower price.
/concur. The benefits others will enjoy will enhance my world, not lessen me.
The objective here is to obtain the very best gaming environment GW can produce for us. What we can manage to do with it will then be on the community's shoulders. On your and my shoulders.
I have never believed it increased my stature to see others fall, and I have never believed it reduced me to see them grow greater.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For the record, I have no objection whatsoever to anyone else getting any of the benefits I've already gotten, although I would be disappointed if they got them at a lower price./concur. The benefits others will enjoy will enhance my world, not lessen me.
The objective here is to obtain the very best gaming environment GW can produce for us. What we can manage to do with it will then be on the community's shoulders. On your and my shoulders.
I have never believed it increased my stature to see others fall, and I have never believed it reduced me to see them grow greater.
I am in complete agreement.
With that said, I can see those who took more of a risk receiving a "thank you" above and beyond the norm. Moreover, there is the "collector's element" to a number of the offerings that many find valuable and that is main reason why they took the risk.
When all is said and done I believe everyone can and should be respected based on what was done, with what information, and when.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I have no objection to any of the Kickstarter features being sold at any price; I think that it is a bad business decision to sell Destiny's Twin at any price that there are buyers.
For that matter, I think that offering Destiny's Twin for the Kickstarter might have been a bad business decision as compared to a high risk of not funding at all. About 9000 accounts have DT. If we assume that 3% of players would pay for the second character training and $10/month revenue for training one more character, then the lost revenue is about $3000 a month or $30,000 a year. Discounting future revenue at a rate of 10% per year and putting the release date three years out, the value of that revenue is about $200,000 today, or roughly 20% of the total Kickstarter revenue.
My assumptions are of course pulled out of my thin air.
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Goblin Squad Member
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lol, my thin air
The destinys twin is a cool concept.
The thing about it is, you cant have both characters from the same account logged in. That isnt a complete drawback as, if it was a second account it would be hard to dual box a dungeon anyway. But you could dual box crafting and the like, or protect your own caravan.
The destinys twin characters will be more under developed then you may think. You have a main character to advance.
my thin air anyway.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have (had) four EVE accounts. I normally would have all four logged in at the same time, and depending on what I was doing all four could be involved. Mining was especially easy. Or, I have a PvP/PvE guy (mostly PvE) guarding the site while the other three mined. Or, my explorer would scan a system for spatial anomolies and depending on what he found, I had two miners and a PvE guy hiding in a safe spot waiting for a bookmark to exploit.
Say my explorer found a cool site using his scanning ablility (Crumbling Serpentis Mining Installation, which has 3-4 pirate ships and a few space cans to open, but the surrounding "landscape" is a huge asteroid belt). My explorer finds it, my PvE guys zaps the bad guys, my explorer is also my salvage guy so he salvages the enemy ships, and after the baddies are cleared out my two miners would start mining the site. My explorer and PvE guy would trade out ships and come back as miners....those sites take about 5 hours for four high level mining ships to clear (so 20 man hours). Millions of units of ore later, all done. Worth a pile of ISK, all four accounts were busy and lots of skills used.
Fun, but one player who wanted to attack me would have brought that op to an end. Hey, these sites are hard to find and most piraty types players are looking for the easy kill, not wanting to obtain the skills needed to scan my little operation down. There are some, but they are looking for loot just like me, not looking for a player-kill. Those guys want easy.
So, in closing, you can have multiple accounts, but using them all will likely depend entirely on what you want to do. Having one chillin' back at the inn would at least give the inn more flavor. Kick up your boots by the fire and rest up. I think your gonna need it!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, yeah Ive dont plenty of multi boxing in eve. I usually had 3 accounts active. Its alot easier to do in that game then Im expecting in PFO. Even in PVP I used 2 characters, you just orbit activate guns and monitor your progress. I think PFO will require more activity. Constant clicking then was required in Eve.
Hey though, who knows, maybe they will let us just click attack and our fighter char will engage a guy swinging away while we cast spells on the other character. I doubt we will want to do that though. There will probably be alot more change up of actions per "round" that we will need to control.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've no problem at all with selling any or all "rewards" from the Kickstarter, at whatever price the market will bear; that seems an easy decision for the revenue folk. The marketing folks (all Ryan, from what he's told us) should do what they can to assess the feelings of other Kickstarter participants, in case I'm in an indefensible minority.
GW should make the best decisions that balance the interests of us, their current audience, any other future customers, and the various aspects of their company. I've little doubt that's exactly what they're going to do.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, in closing, you can have multiple accounts, but using them all will likely depend entirely on what you want to do.
I was pushing for it a year ago, and was extremely pleased to hear Ryan announce that we would indeed be able to log in multiple characters from the same account at the same time. So, you won't need to have multiple accounts, and you won't need to worry about transferring a character from one account to another in order to do what you've described.
I wonder whether it will be made possible to run more than one character from the same account simultaneously. Would that be a good idea?
Yes, on both counts :)
From Kickstarter Community Thread: Subscriptions & Microtransactions:
You will be able to log in more than one character on the same account. So you can run the client twice, or run the client on two computers logged into the same account. (This is commonly called "multiboxing").
@Xeen, Ryan's statement above is very recent, and pretty firm. He left some wiggle room, but that was for the Destiny's Twin:
You MAY NOT be able to log in your Destiny's Twin character at the same time you are logged in to another character on that account.
So, I'm holding out hope that we will end up being able to multibox our Destiny's Twin as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really hope they don’t allow Destiny’s Twin to be purchasable on a continual basis. Even as KS contributor I was leery of having two characters able to raise their skills at the same time.
I saw a lot of people mentioning they would choose their main ‘x’ class (Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, etc) and a crafter as their twin. But many were assuring it wouldn’t be a factor in the long run as it only applied to those who contributed to the Kickstarter and the amount of players would far encompass those with Destiny’s Twin. And I saw the logic on that and agreed.
However, if it is made available to all, then that argument is pretty much moot. I feel part of the strength of the crafters is others to be reliant on them to make them the items they need, but if a lot have a ‘twin’ crafter, they will craft some of their own equipment and their will not be as much reliance.
There are of course the merit badges, but that is hard to say how much of deterrent that will be for those who want to work on a crafter ‘twin’. But I am guessing if they go through the trouble of paying for their twin, they will take the time to get the merit badges for them, as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really hope they don’t allow Destiny’s Twin to be purchasable on a continual basis. Even as KS contributor I was leery of having two characters able to raise their skills at the same time.
I saw a lot of people mentioning they would choose their main ‘x’ class (Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, etc) and a crafter as their twin. But many were assuring it wouldn’t be a factor in the long run as it only applied to those who contributed to the Kickstarter and the amount of players would far encompass those with Destiny’s Twin. And I saw the logic on that and agreed.
However, if it is made available to all, then that argument is pretty much moot. I feel part of the strength of the crafters is others to be reliant on them to make them the items they need, but if a lot have a ‘twin’ crafter, they will craft some of their own equipment and their will not be as much reliance.
You definitelly has a point.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Although I just thought of something, I am not sure if you will be able to transfer money/items between characters on your account.
If you are not able to, then my concern would not be really an issue.
Edit: However, Ryan did say you will be able to ‘two-box’, so I guess you could technically log in both your main and twin, go to a safe location, drop the item from your crafter twin and have your main pick it up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Although I just thought of something, I am not sure if you will be able to transfer money/items between characters on your account.
If you are not able to, then my concern would not be really an issue.
I read somewhere that we can create bank account and determine who can handle it, so you could in theory let your twin to access it. In that way coin certainly will be shareable. And I bet itens too. Even if not, you could ask someone you trust to carry it and give your twin after you log it on.
Actually, if we will be able to log both twin and main char, as is said it may be, so you can trade anything from one to the other.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is not possible to force players to be reliant on other players. All you can do is make it really irritating and frustrating for the "normal" players to be self-sufficient, which a surprising number of players seem to want.
Most of the players who are "casually" self-sufficient won't be making a negative impact on the "professional" crafters anyway. They're going to be players who dabble in that part of the game because they find it fun. They're not going to be devoting lots of time and effort to being great at it.
Although I just thought of something, I am not sure if you will be able to transfer money/items between characters on your account.
If you are not able to, then my concern would not be really an issue.
Edit: However, Ryan did say you will be able to ‘two-box’, so I guess you could technically log in both your main and twin, go to a safe location, drop the item from your crafter twin and have your main pick it up.
The way they are handling coin in PFO is pretty odd. I still don't fully understand how it will work, but I do know that coin will be available at all times, not stored in a bank or vault. I'm guessing that coin will be account wide, meaning you have access to all your coin with all your characters, but we need some confirmation on that. My feeling comes from hearing some methods like stealth, darkness/light, combat and other things described by Ryan.