When did making sense become wrongbadfun?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

It is 100%. The fact that you taught people to GM the way you wanted to play means you taught people to GM the way you wanted to play.

Meaning you had a choice.

Obviously, as we've established over the last few years, each of us will never be at the others table.

And we don't have to be.

Which is the point.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Owly wrote:

To...get on a forum anywhere, and use words like "badwrongfun" is akin to calling someone a "racist" or a "heretic" in the middle-ages. It puts people on the defensive by saying effectively "look how this guy is wrong from us normal people". It shuts down debate. It's pointless and tribalistic. I would discourage you from doing it.

IIRC, the term "badwrongfun" actually originated to point that out. Not to accuse people of having "badwrongfun", but to point out the absurdity of saying the way someone else was having fun was bad.

And it's still almost always used that way. Even here.


ciretose wrote:
It is 100%. The fact that you taught people to GM the way you wanted to play means you taught people to GM the way you wanted to play.

This sounds like a sort of golden rule for gaming doesn't it? GM the way you want to be GMed or somesuch?

I know when I'm GMing I really think very hard on what it would be like being on the other side of the proverbial screen. I think that's why I probably come across as being very pro-player while my GM to PC ratio is probably more like 90/10 if not 95/5 or worse.

Quote:

Obviously, as we've established over the last few years, each of us will never be at the others table.

And we don't have to be.

Which is the point.

Well I have to admit I turned to online play for my own needs for a long time. First PbP games and then OpenRPG (I'm so looking forward to Pious Paladin's release). I enjoy some good ol' sit down, roll dice, gameplay as well though. I need to do more of it (a few of my offline friends are seriously chomping at the bit for more games).

Thinking on it very hard though, I'd like to try playing with you at least once in a face to face setting. Most of our issues have probably been my fault (I am a sarcastic bastard after all) or lost in translation. At least that's what I'd like to think. Truly it probably won't happen (I tend to stick to my own little neck of the woods and traveling and meeting up with people isn't something that would happen lightly), but I wouldn't dismiss it if we happened across each other at a FLGS or something. :P

I'd also like to play with (in no specific order) Adamantine Dragon, TriOmegaZero, Lumiere, Taticslion, Aratrok, Tels, Grimmy, Ravingdork, Lemmy, Treantmonk, WPharolin, and more. I...would even, just once, like to play alongside or GM for Shallowsoul (out of a perverse curiosity if nothing else :P).

Liberty's Edge

The Golden Rule of Gaming should be "You adapt to the table, you don't demand the table to adapt to you."

Liberty's Edge

As to the game, I don't see it working unless Toz was the GM.


ciretose wrote:
The Golden Rule of Gaming should be "You adapt to the table, you don't demand the table to adapt to you."

I think you left out "unless you're the GM, then adapt that table all to hell".


Lobolusk wrote:
Arssanguinus wrote:

There is always the supposition that not everything is possible. Every game, the moment its played, is to some extent house ruled. The moment you make an interpretation of a rule, you are house ruling, its just a matter of extent and where those rules fall.

And requiring something to make sense within the milieu of the campaign word is not some unreasonable and onerous task.

I disagree I would say the Campaign has to make sense in the confines of the pathinder rules set. unless there is a alignment restriction or something like that it is not cool for a dm to crush dream because his/her world doesnt like the existence of a Bard/wizard/alchemist.....gunslinger

So is it cool for the player to mess in the carefully constructed sandbox of the gm just because he insist on that one thing that the gm doesn't want out of all the options available? There is REALLY nothing else they could play and have fun?


thejeff wrote:
Arssanguinus wrote:

There is always the supposition that not everything is possible. Every game, the moment its played, is to some extent house ruled. The moment you make an interpretation of a rule, you are house ruling, its just a matter of extent and where those rules fall.

And requiring something to make sense within the milieu of the campaign word is not some unreasonable and onerous task.

It all depends on what "make sense" means and whether everyone's on the same page about it.

If, to use the context of this thread, the GM thinks multiclassing is impossible and makes a house rule against it, that's fine.
If he thinks multiclassing to some classes is impossible and makes a house rule against it, that's fine.
If he's ok with multiclassing as long as you make some token effort to justify it, then that's ok too. Especially if he'll help you work it into the game.
If he thinks multiclassing is impossible, but might let you talk him into allowing it, I've got a problem with that. Requiring a really good explanation is essentially "Talking the GM into it". I'm not fond of anything that requires talking the GM into things. It's inherently open to bias and rewards people who are good at that kind of persuasion. Not possible to eliminate, but there's no need to encourage it.

My stance is generally more like the aforementioned. "My answer is no, but I'm willing to listen to your argument - if you have a way to use the class that overcomes the reasons I don't want it, whether through backstory, risk inning it as something that works, or whatever, my goal,is for us BOTH to have fun. So I'd love to find a way for your desires to be realized at the same time as mine.

Liberty's Edge

Adamantine Dragon wrote:
ciretose wrote:
The Golden Rule of Gaming should be "You adapt to the table, you don't demand the table to adapt to you."
I think you left out "unless you're the GM, then adapt that table all to hell".

The GM is the person who most has to follow the rule I outlined.


thejeff wrote:
Owly wrote:

To...get on a forum anywhere, and use words like "badwrongfun" is akin to calling someone a "racist" or a "heretic" in the middle-ages. It puts people on the defensive by saying effectively "look how this guy is wrong from us normal people". It shuts down debate. It's pointless and tribalistic. I would discourage you from doing it.

IIRC, the term "badwrongfun" actually originated to point that out. Not to accuse people of having "badwrongfun", but to point out the absurdity of saying the way someone else was having fun was bad.

And it's still almost always used that way. Even here.

It may astonish and dismay you to realize that to criticize others is perfectly legitimate. It's how people learn. It's how the foolish and ignorant are brought to task when they are found to have fanciful and destructive notions in their heads.

To accuse someone of being "a wrong person" is fascist in nature. It implies your point-of-view is beyond reproach. Learn the difference.


ciretose wrote:
As to the game, I don't see it working unless Toz was the GM.

Well, that's kinda my point. Maybe we don't see because we're blinded by our narrow experiences looking through the lens of the messageboards! Honestly - I admit - the prospect of sitting at the same table with you would have made my skin crawl not long ago. After some really serious thinking though, that impulse is probably derived from many misunderstandings over time. You're likely not even half as bad as I thought, and I'm hopefully only half as bad as you think. :P

It'd be cool playing under TOZ too. ^-^

Liberty's Edge

I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ciretose wrote:
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
ciretose wrote:
The Golden Rule of Gaming should be "You adapt to the table, you don't demand the table to adapt to you."
I think you left out "unless you're the GM, then adapt that table all to hell".
The GM is the person who most has to follow the rule I outlined.

This adapting thing kinda reminds me of why I haven't ran the D&D-superheroes game I've wanted for a while. Nobody I've pitched the idea to seems to understand it, so I've been running something else. :P

D&D Superheroes:
The idea came about from a combination of comments about adventurers being murderous hobos who would be unwanted in society, combined with the idea that D&D characters acquire superhero-like power as they gain levels.

The idea basically plays out as a heavy urban adventure with all kinds of nonsense going on behind the scenes (like mind flayer cabals, slave traders, mafia, and so forth). Therein the PCs act as a banded group of vigilantes who hide their identities to avoid harm coming to their peers and to avoid repercussions for being vigilantes. Each PC would have a sort of code-name, such as "Keeper" or "The Red Blade", or somesuch. Part of the game could entail dealing with adventuring stuff, the other part avoiding discovery and downtime stuff.


ciretose wrote:

I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?

That sounds like some sort of opening to a joke, but I could be convinced. That'd be one of the weirdest groups ever purely from our individual reputations on the boards. The idea is sheer brilliance. XD

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
ciretose wrote:

I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?

See, I was gonna be all "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED" but then I saw the list and was like, man, I dunno.


Owly wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Owly wrote:

To...get on a forum anywhere, and use words like "badwrongfun" is akin to calling someone a "racist" or a "heretic" in the middle-ages. It puts people on the defensive by saying effectively "look how this guy is wrong from us normal people". It shuts down debate. It's pointless and tribalistic. I would discourage you from doing it.

IIRC, the term "badwrongfun" actually originated to point that out. Not to accuse people of having "badwrongfun", but to point out the absurdity of saying the way someone else was having fun was bad.

And it's still almost always used that way. Even here.

It may astonish and dismay you to realize that to criticize others is perfectly legitimate. It's how people learn. It's how the foolish and ignorant are brought to task when they are found to have fanciful and destructive notions in their heads.

To accuse someone of being "a wrong person" is fascist in nature. It implies your point-of-view is beyond reproach. Learn the difference.

Is that in anyway related to my post?


TriOmegaZero wrote:
ciretose wrote:

I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?

See, I was gonna be all "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED" but then I saw the list and was like, man, I dunno.

*falls over laughing*


thejeff wrote:
Owly wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Owly wrote:

To...get on a forum anywhere, and use words like "badwrongfun" is akin to calling someone a "racist" or a "heretic" in the middle-ages. It puts people on the defensive by saying effectively "look how this guy is wrong from us normal people". It shuts down debate. It's pointless and tribalistic. I would discourage you from doing it.

IIRC, the term "badwrongfun" actually originated to point that out. Not to accuse people of having "badwrongfun", but to point out the absurdity of saying the way someone else was having fun was bad.

And it's still almost always used that way. Even here.

It may astonish and dismay you to realize that to criticize others is perfectly legitimate. It's how people learn. It's how the foolish and ignorant are brought to task when they are found to have fanciful and destructive notions in their heads.

To accuse someone of being "a wrong person" is fascist in nature. It implies your point-of-view is beyond reproach. Learn the difference.

Is that in anyway related to my post?

It is directly related to your post, yes. Specifically, the assertion that to point out how (other people are enjoying themselves is wrong), is absurd.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
ciretose wrote:

I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?

See, I was gonna be all "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED" but then I saw the list and was like, man, I dunno.

It would at least be memorable I'm sure. :P


TriOmegaZero wrote:
ciretose wrote:

I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?

See, I was gonna be all "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED" but then I saw the list and was like, man, I dunno.

Make it a high level game. I want to see the builds!

Actually, the ideal way to do it would be to trick all of you into joining the same game under aliases so none of you knew it. :)


thejeff wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
ciretose wrote:

I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?

See, I was gonna be all "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED" but then I saw the list and was like, man, I dunno.

Make it a high level game. I want to see the builds!

Actually, the ideal way to do it would be to trick all of you into joining the same game under aliases so none of you knew it. :)

I think I'd prefer beginning at low levels (just feels more classic to me and I can get into the character a little more I think). Then again, PBP games are notorious for being slower than molasses in January, so maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to skip some of the smaller levels. Who knows?

I remember back on Nexuscity.net (the old PbP site which I believe is now defunct) there were people who had been playing there for over a year without reaching 2nd level. :P

Liberty's Edge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
ciretose wrote:

I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?

See, I was gonna be all "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED" but then I saw the list and was like, man, I dunno.

Feel free to change the other two, just a thought but that may be a bridge to far.

Liberty's Edge

I would prefer to start at low levels as well (first if possible)

And while PbP are slow, it isn't like we are picking people who don't post on here fairly obsessively :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I don't know if you saw this, but I may be starting a PBP here a few months down the road...


Owly wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Owly wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Owly wrote:

To...get on a forum anywhere, and use words like "badwrongfun" is akin to calling someone a "racist" or a "heretic" in the middle-ages. It puts people on the defensive by saying effectively "look how this guy is wrong from us normal people". It shuts down debate. It's pointless and tribalistic. I would discourage you from doing it.

IIRC, the term "badwrongfun" actually originated to point that out. Not to accuse people of having "badwrongfun", but to point out the absurdity of saying the way someone else was having fun was bad.

And it's still almost always used that way. Even here.

It may astonish and dismay you to realize that to criticize others is perfectly legitimate. It's how people learn. It's how the foolish and ignorant are brought to task when they are found to have fanciful and destructive notions in their heads.

To accuse someone of being "a wrong person" is fascist in nature. It implies your point-of-view is beyond reproach. Learn the difference.

Is that in anyway related to my post?
It is directly related to your post, yes. Specifically, the assertion that to point out how (other people are enjoying themselves is wrong), is absurd.

I'm having trouble parsing that.

Are you saying that it does make sense to say that the way someone else was having fun is bad.

Or that telling someone their game is badwrongfun is itself bad? Which is what I'm saying.

Obviously in the first case, we're confining ourselves to different styles of gaming. Kicking puppies is in fact badwrongfun.


TriOmegaZero wrote:


ciretose wrote:


I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?

See, I was gonna be all "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED" but then I saw the list and was like, man, I dunno.

But think man! You could set up web cams and sell tickets! People would pay to see that! :D


TriOmegaZero wrote:
I don't know if you saw this, but I may be starting a PBP here a few months down the road...

Wow TOZ, that's awesome man! :D


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R_Chance wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:


ciretose wrote:


I say we talk TOZ into running a Play-by-post with me, you, RD and Shallowsoul.

You up for it Toz?

See, I was gonna be all "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED" but then I saw the list and was like, man, I dunno.

But think man! You could set up a web cam and sell tickets! People would pay to see that! :D

Yeah, I was talking with a friend of mine on skype (another poster here) and he said that it sounded less like a gaming group and more like an add for a cage match! If we did this, we should definitely make like some sort of reality-webcast out of it. XD

Liberty's Edge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I don't know if you saw this, but I may be starting a PBP here a few months down the road...

But I want it now! :)

Besides, this would be more interesting, wouldn't it?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
R_Chance wrote:
But think man! You could set up a web cam and sell tickets! People would pay to see that! :D

...hmm...


TriOmegaZero wrote:
R_Chance wrote:
But think man! You could set up a web cam and sell tickets! People would pay to see that! :D
...hmm...

Just think. Merchandizing! We could sell T-Shirts on the Paizo store. You could have t-shirts like "Team Anarchy!" with your favorite gamer out of the group on them. Just for poops and giggles (since it seemed to spark so much back and forth back in the day) I'd want to have a T-Shirt with a knight and a wizard riding on a tarrasque. :P

We could get our own legion of fanbois and fangurls. Everybody would cast aside such petty things like team Jacob and team Edward and don the garbs of Team Ravingdork, Ciretose, Ashiel, and Shallowsoul (I'd wear a team SS just for the lulz). :P


I'm glad you all arrived at the conclusion to this airfest I had all along.


ciretose wrote:
You are missing out. I run great games.

As do I. But as I said La la la...human steps.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Ashiel wrote:
Everybody would cast aside such petty things like team Jacob and team Edward and don the garbs of Team Ravingdork, Ciretose, Ashiel, and Shallowsoul (I'd wear a team SS just for the lulz). :P

Pretty sure there are already Team Ravingdork shirts out there.

Liberty's Edge

While I think it is ridiculous anyone would consider paying any money for such a premise...kickstarter :)


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Everybody would cast aside such petty things like team Jacob and team Edward and don the garbs of Team Ravingdork, Ciretose, Ashiel, and Shallowsoul (I'd wear a team SS just for the lulz). :P
Pretty sure there are already Team Ravingdork shirts out there.

I have a cult but I haven't got T-Shirts yet. I'm such a bad cult leader. I should really have some "Cult of Ashiel" T-Shirts (maybe with a cultist # on each T-shirt) made to send to my followers. If only it wouldn't be so damn expensive! It's hard to run cult propaganda without money! :P


R_Chance wrote:


But think man! You could set up web cams and sell tickets! People would pay to see that! :D

HUSH YOU!!! I wanna watch this thing for free!!


ciretose wrote:
While I think it is ridiculous anyone would consider paying any money for suck a premise...kickstarter :)

You're a mad genius Ciretose! :D

*wanders off to ponder this in the shadows*


"suck a premise?" Freudian much?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
ciretose wrote:
Feel free to change the other two, just a thought but that may be a bridge to far.

Get LazarX in there and see if I can actually get to like him.


Mass hysteria.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Feel free to change the other two, just a thought but that may be a bridge to far.
Get LazarX in there and see if I can actually get to like him.

It could be a moment for us all to bond as Paizonians! :P


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hippies.


In the meantime, I need to get back to prepping tonight's adventure starring Scurvy the Pigmy Pugwampi Pirate and his band of Gnolls known as Scurvy's Dogs. High seas shenanigans await my brother when he gets home!


Kryzbyn wrote:
Hippies.

*shoots his crossbow at Kryzbyn*


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ashiel wrote:


TriOmegaZero wrote:


ciretose wrote:

Feel free to change the other two, just a thought but that may be a bridge to far.

Get LazarX in there and see if I can actually get to like him.

It could be a moment for us all to bond as Paizonians! :P

Or it could be the start of a trial that would make OJ, Casey Anthony and Jody Arias pale in comparison :) HLN! National audience! Of course there would have to be a victim...


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Great. Bolt to the knee. You know what this means.


R_Chance wrote:
Ashiel wrote:


TriOmegaZero wrote:


ciretose wrote:

Feel free to change the other two, just a thought but that may be a bridge to far.

Get LazarX in there and see if I can actually get to like him.

It could be a moment for us all to bond as Paizonians! :P

Or it could be the start of a trial that would make OJ, Casey Anthony and Jody Arias pale in comparison :) HLN! National audience! Of course there would have to be a victim...

Every member of the boards is the victim! It's a mass nerdicide!

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kryzbyn wrote:
Great. Bolt to the knee. You know what this means.

I do.


ciretose wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
Great. Bolt to the knee. You know what this means.

I do.

I nearly choking laughing. XD

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