Vital Strike +


Rules Questions

51 to 100 of 241 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>

blackbloodtroll wrote:
What class are you?

EK/Transmutation in 2 levels...

mplindustries wrote:

It works because Arcane Strike is a Swift Action.

However, you should never take Vital Strike unless you are some kind of really big monster with a nasty natural attack, like a T-Rex, preferably with Strong Jaw, because Vital Strike is a terrible trap feat.

So this would be beneficial for Beast Shapes or Dragon Forms?...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

What is this nonsense about pounce being uncommon? If you want pounce, nearly any build or class can get it.

Ways to get the pounce ability specifically:

- Druid: Via wildshape
- Any caster: Via Beast Shape 2+. Be a Samsaran if it's not on your list, or pick the right domain/patron/mystery/etc...
- Barbarian: Greater Beast Totem, level 10
- Alchemist: Beastmorph archetype, level 10
- Summoner: Eidolon gets it at level 1; you do instead if a Synthesist
- Monk of the 4 Winds: At a high level and 1/hour, though. Poor monks.
- Oracle: Battle mystery has a revelation to move and full attack a few times/day

Options that aren't literally pounce, but are effectively the same:

- Magus: Bladed Dash w/ Spell Combat is "like pounce, plus an extra attack, oh and you can use it to hit and withdraw as well"
- Any mounted PC: With Mounted Skirmisher feat (available to Ranger 10, Sohei Monk 1, or anyone else 14) can move and full attack.

So no, pounce is actually pretty damn available. I guess less so to those unfortunate pathetic mundane classes than to spellcasters, because spellcasters are clearly supposed to be the kings of melee combat (sarcasm), but it is most definitely not hard to get pounce. There may be more to list, that's just the ones I could think of.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

That is only around 10% of any possible Build.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

No one has yet proven that Vital Strike is a worthless feat

1)For Furious Focus it is giving no straight damage increase (I'm asking for only that since that is what this game is all about to some people)

2)Precise Strike is assuming someone else wants to also take it and its only +1d6 per attack...we are talking about situations where you will be moving to hit so only get one attack...how is 1d6 better than an extra 2d6?

3)Deadly stroke is farther away than 6th level and that's the only level I'm dealing with in this situation, and you are also assuming that this fighter is spending 1 of his 2 skill points on Intimidate(I'm assuming that this PC was made by a min/maxer and so Int is useless for a fighter). I personally like that feat chain if it fits the character but again that doesn't add straight damage for this level 6 fighter

4)1/2 my point on this thread is people seem to only care about a feat thats going to make you ALL POWERFUL instead of someone taking a feat that works depending on the situation or that doesn't fit the character

I like Vital Strike, its something to take so when you are forced to move to hit you do some more damage without losing anything...again I'm not saying its godly and that EVERYONE should take it...but for a basic fighter character (especially 2 handers) its NOT a worthless feat either

My other point is when you break down a character for nothing but DPR and such you are Min/Maxing, which is pointless if you are trying to play this game for what it is suppose to be


Drakkiel wrote:

No one has yet proven that Vital Strike is a worthless feat

1)For Furious Focus it is giving no straight damage increase (I'm asking for only that since that is what this game is all about to some people)

Umm.. if you really need proof.. play with it. And if you like it then great.. perhaps you'll like the benefits of the endurance feat as well (not for qualifications, but as a feat itself).

As to your number 1.. perhaps you always hit.. awesome.. do you always crit as well? Then a x4 pick is SO much better than a falchion...

Vital strike is a trap. It's a bad trap. It needs to include all of its iterates at the very least to be worth a feat.

-James


Drakkiel wrote:
1)For Furious Focus it is giving no straight damage increase (I'm asking for only that since that is what this game is all about to some people)

Furious Focus absolutely gives a DPR increase. DPR is calculated by multiplying your average hit's damage by your hit rate, so raising your hit chance raises your DPR.

And I showed the math that Furious Focus increases your DPR by more than Vital Strike does.

Drakkiel wrote:
2)Precise Strike is assuming someone else wants to also take it and its only +1d6 per attack...we are talking about situations where you will be moving to hit so only get one attack...how is 1d6 better than an extra 2d6?

Because the extra 1d6 applies to all of your attacks when you flank. The assumption would be that you are attacking while flanking at least twice as often as you are vital striking.

Drakkiel wrote:
3)Deadly stroke is farther away than 6th level and that's the only level I'm dealing with in this situation, and you are also assuming that this fighter is spending 1 of his 2 skill points on Intimidate(I'm assuming that this PC was made by a min/maxer and so Int is useless for a fighter). I personally like that feat chain if it fits the character but again that doesn't add straight damage for this level 6 fighter

You can't ignore feat chains--there's a pretty good chance a fighter is going to be spending a majority of their feats on feat chains, after all.

Drakkiel wrote:
4)1/2 my point on this thread is people seem to only care about a feat thats going to make you ALL POWERFUL instead of someone taking a feat that works depending on the situation or that doesn't fit the character

No, I'm simply pointing out one specific feat that looks awesome but actually isn't. It's a trick feat, because you think it's better than it is. Seriously, it's weak and there are almost always better feat choices. It doesn't have to make you all-powerful for it to be better than Vital Strike--it just has to be, well, most feats.

I'd consider Iron Will better than Vital Strike, for example, though I realize that's more subjective. I did, however show how Furious Focus was objectively better for your example character.

Drakkiel wrote:
I like Vital Strike, its something to take so when you are forced to move to hit you do some more damage without losing anything...again I'm not saying its godly and that EVERYONE should take it...but for a basic fighter character (especially 2 handers) its NOT a worthless feat either

It's worthless when you consider opportunity cost, though. Obviously, having Vital Strike is better than having nothing, but it's not better than most other things with the same opportunity cost (i.e. a feat).

I'm not saying you can't take Vital Strike if you like it. I'm warning you that it's a trick and that it's not actually valuable for the thing you think it does, that's all. If you want to take a weak feat, that's your choice.

Drakkiel wrote:
My other point is when you break down a character for nothing but DPR and such you are Min/Maxing, which is pointless if you are trying to play this game for what it is suppose to be

You are absolutely not going to convince me that someone would take Vital Strike for roleplaying purposes--that's absurd. It's a purely mechanical ability, and your reasons for defending it are damage related! How can you say you like it because it deals good damage, but then criticize me for pointing out that it actually adds less damage than other options?


I have played with it...and in the situations where I have to walk 15 ft and hit a guy it does great...should you use it later on down the round at level 20? NO...but thats not my argument...my issue is telling someone that a feat is worthless when its not...and as someone even mentioned as a fighter you can replace it if you want so why not use it while its good then dump it?

My options given on here were not meant for me personally or anyone...I keep mentioning DPR and "only damage increase" because every time someone asks for advice on a character or anything else people basically just say "play a different class, that one sucks" and that is not what role-playing is about

@James: get back over to the stealth thread lol


No I'm not saying that taking Vital Strike would be for roleplaying purposes...I'm saying telling someone to literally change their class because they can get "X" ability with that class instead of playing the class they wanted and using Vital Strike to squeeze out a bit more damage in a certain situation is min/maxing, the other examples people have been given in other threads are exactly like that and its not right

But this isn't the place for that and I apologize...frustration gets to me while I'm at work when I read these so don't hold it against me


Why shouldn't you choose a different class if a different class fills the role you're trying to fill better than the obvious choice? Your character doesn't have {class name} tattooed on his forehead (unless he's a summoner). The fluff difference between an urban ranger, an urban barbarian, a cavalier, and a fighter is not insurmountable and if some other class does what you want to do better you should use it.

You want to use a two handed martial weapon and have some selection of skills that fits within a fighter's skill allotment. Great. A barbarian will do the job better and have 2 more skill points per level than the fighter would have. Unless your build is absolutely relying on those bonus feats you shouldn't be building a fighter.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I can see using Vital Strike with a gunslinger... and perhaps a fighter that needs some extra effect when having to move (not all fighters are going to be able to qualify for Spring Attack), or the like.

I've used it to good effect in a home game with a 2H Fighter... I also had Furious Focus (this feat isn't part of the discussion to me). Cleave isn't really a substitute for this, and also has limited use, and of course doesn't work with Vital Strike either.

Now, for the case of the Gunslinger, I know that Rapid Shot is a typical way to go, especially if going as a Musket Man (so that you can reload, with paper cartridges, as a free action, eventually). Not sure that the increased risk from always using paper cartridges is what I want to do... plus if you are shooting 3-5 shots per turn, this gets expensive, fast.


A Gunslinger Deed is good if you are needing to save ammo. But Vital Strike is excellent if you need to stay mobile. Heck, I have a Rogue(Scout, Sniper) who uses Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike. She has killed more encounters than the Gunslinger.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I love how people who argue against vital strike seem to forget that even if you have the VS feats, nothing prevents you from making a full attack should the opportunity arise. And since Fighters are NOT on the list provided by StreamOfTheSky of classes able to get pounce, AND they have a large number of bonus feats, AND the only feat really needed for 2-handed weapon wielding is power attack... then I really don't see a problem picking up Vital Strike and Furious Focus and any of these so-called "terrible" feats. Yes, you don't get to use them 100% of the time, but the times where you can only get a standard action attack instead of a full-attack I'd rather have them instead of immediately telling people "It's not as good as a full attack, don't ever get it."


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
That is only around 10% of any possible Build.

There are countless possible builds.

I wasn't seeking to prove "everyone gets pounce no matter what choices they make, yay!"

I was trying to show that if you *want* pounce, getting it isn't terribly hard and options for it abound.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
I love how people who argue against vital strike seem to forget that even if you have the VS feats, nothing prevents you from making a full attack should the opportunity arise. And since Fighters are NOT on the list provided by StreamOfTheSky of classes able to get pounce, AND they have a large number of bonus feats, AND the only feat really needed for 2-handed weapon wielding is power attack... then I really don't see a problem picking up Vital Strike and Furious Focus and any of these so-called "terrible" feats. Yes, you don't get to use them 100% of the time, but the times where you can only get a standard action attack instead of a full-attack I'd rather have them instead of immediately telling people "It's not as good as a full attack, don't ever get it."

It's not just a full attack that's better than Vital Strike, it's most feats that are, too. If you ever hit a point in time that you can't find a better feat than Vital Strike, ok, then go for it--but I really doubt that you'll ever hit that point, even as a Fighter. There are an awful lot of feats, after all.


Drakkiel wrote:


I like Vital Strike, its something to take so when you are forced to move to hit you do some more damage without losing anything...again I'm not saying its godly and that EVERYONE should take it...but for a basic fighter character (especially 2 handers) its NOT a worthless feat either

My other point is when you break down a character for nothing but DPR and such you are Min/Maxing, which is pointless if you are trying to play this game for what it is suppose to be

You sir, get an extra +250 internets!

It's not a must-have feat, but I definitely find uses for it.
My fighter's player gets a grin when he finds something within his 30 feet range, and get his extra vital strike dice ready to hurt it.

It's like saying "I don't care you moved, I'll still hit you in the face with this huge piece of metal....HARD!!"


Oh, and it of course depends on the number of (splat)books you want to use.
My players have CRB and APG. They are less inclined to minmax their second character, because they will get yet another power-attacking barbarian with a greatsword.

It's nice to play something COOL that doesn't involve "I have the most DPR of all of you!"

Oh, and vital strike works on bows too.. So if you fighter switched to a bow, and is firing while coming closer... Pain x2 ;)


Vital strike or "How to Play aReal Sniper"

This has been this feats one real use for me. To let me use the snipe mechanic without having to stay 30-90 feet away. My crossbow fighter loves being able to add the extra dice when shooting from hella far away and then vanish so the bad guys don't see him.

It may not be the most damaging option buts its the best in this tiny situation.


I thought-crafted a Standard Action Fighter that used vital strike. Although it hasn't saw play yet it turned out pretty well. I think next time I play a fighter I will use it (or a close variation of it at least).


Drakkiel wrote:
How would a fighter get the pounce ability?

Reroll a synthesist summoner.

And vital strike isn't a bad feat, people on these boards use too much simulation and too few real combats.


Drakkiel wrote:

No one has yet proven that Vital Strike is a worthless feat

1)For Furious Focus it is giving no straight damage increase (I'm asking for only that since that is what this game is all about to some people)

I like Vital Strike, its something to take so when you are forced to move to hit you do some more damage without losing anything...again I'm not saying its godly and that EVERYONE should take it...but for a basic fighter character (especially 2 handers) its NOT a worthless feat either

My other point is when you break down a character for nothing but DPR and such you are Min/Maxing, which is pointless if you are trying to play this game for what it is suppose to be

At 7th level Vital Strike might be a better option, but at 6th level Furious Focus beats it at the DPR game like a red headed step child with a kick me sign on it.

At 7th level, I'm not sure what you could take next so Vital strike would be fine.


The utility of Vital Strike is, like a LOT of things in Pf, dependent a great deal on play style.

How often can you make a full attack? With some groups GMs like to have a lot of swinging from ropes, scabbing out of quicksand, or dodging battlefield conditions that makes full attacks much less common. for example i play under a GM who who *often* has things like the fire jets from princess Bride's fire swamp in battlefields. an area gives some kind of warning, and if you are still in it after your next round you take damage. Sometimes a lot of damage. These battlefields are often not steed-friendly. Mobility is important.

She's an extreme case, but there are lots of factors that can make mobility more important.

How common is DR/-? One of the things Vital Strike does well is increase your maximum damage output, and that's good for punching more damage through a foe who has DR you can't bypass.

What are the common play levels? Games that hover near 6-8 level for a long time stay closer to the hp totals that make vital strike useful, while not reaching the levels with many of the pounce options.

How often do you fight in tight, twisting spaces? Pounce works on charge, and charge must be in a straight line. Lots of dungeons make that fairly rare as an option.

I see a lot of people run charge wrong. You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. If you don't have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can't charge that opponent.

No charge, no pounce.

How often do fights have 4-8 foes? There are some very effective Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Furious Focus, Great Cleave, Power Attack, Vital Strike builds that do an awesome job of hammering one foe so you can drop him and Cleaving finish into another foe (who often ISN'T adjacent to the first foe, and thus not a legit target for normal Cleave).

One of our powerhouse characters in a current game is a human fighter with all those plus Weapon Focus and Weapon Finesse, and a few I'm not thinking of. (Devastating Strike, maybe?)


As an alternative to Vital Strike, here is a possible feat progression for a fighter using a Greatsword and a Longbow. The idea is that the fighter would use his bow unless an enemy moves adjacent.

1 Power Attack
1 Point Blank Shot
1 Rapid Shot

Initial weapons are Greatsword and Short Bow. Upgrade to Composite Longbow when you can afford it.

2 Weapon Focus Greatsword
3 Weapon Focus Longbow
4 Weapon Specialization Greatsword
5 Weapon Specialization Longbow
6 Quick Draw

At the point where you gain an additional attack, Quick Draw allows you to drop your bow as a free action, draw your sword as a free action, then full attack.

7 Deadly Aim
8 Improved Critical Greatsword
9 Improved Critical Longbow
10 Critical Focus
11 Bleeding Critical
12 Greater Weapon Specialization Greatsword
13 Greater Weapon Specialization Longbow
14 Greater Weapon Focus Greatsword
15 Greater Weapon Focus Longbow
16 Toughness

Priorities for point buy: 1) Strength 2) Dexterity 3) Constitution

Though I haven't played this build, I think it would be effective in most combat situations. Possibly some of the Greater feats could be replaced with Iron Will / Improved Iron Will or whatever else is needed over strict damage-dealing.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

What is this nonsense about pounce being uncommon? If you want pounce, nearly any build or class can get it.

Ways to get the pounce ability specifically:

- Druid: Via wildshape
- Any caster: Via Beast Shape 2+. Be a Samsaran if it's not on your list, or pick the right domain/patron/mystery/etc...
- Barbarian: Greater Beast Totem, level 10
- Alchemist: Beastmorph archetype, level 10
- Summoner: Eidolon gets it at level 1; you do instead if a Synthesist
- Monk of the 4 Winds: At a high level and 1/hour, though. Poor monks.
- Oracle: Battle mystery has a revelation to move and full attack a few times/day

Options that aren't literally pounce, but are effectively the same:

- Magus: Bladed Dash w/ Spell Combat is "like pounce, plus an extra attack, oh and you can use it to hit and withdraw as well"
- Any mounted PC: With Mounted Skirmisher feat (available to Ranger 10, Sohei Monk 1, or anyone else 14) can move and full attack.

So no, pounce is actually pretty damn available. I guess less so to those unfortunate pathetic mundane classes than to spellcasters, because spellcasters are clearly supposed to be the kings of melee combat (sarcasm), but it is most definitely not hard to get pounce. There may be more to list, that's just the ones I could think of.

That's a lot of fun stuff that isn't in the core rulebook.


Personally I think unless the game was a high point buy or the character had high stat rolls a ranger does better in the switch hitter role.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Quote:
...because Vital Strike is a terrible trap feat.

This thread is a trap.


firefly the great wrote:
And vital strike isn't a bad feat, people on these boards use too much simulation and too few real combats.

This is why it is a trap feat: it gives the illusion of being useful and worth a feat.

First by the time you can get the rest of the feats for it we can agree that it is not worth it at all, right? Why they decided to make this multiple feats is beyond me. Perhaps they were trapped or wanted more feats out there... No idea.

You will want to trade the feat out at 8th or 10th level so at best it will have a limited use. You will take it at 6th to have for like 2 levels.

But let's make up a two handed fighter.. and to give him more feats he can be human.

At 6th level he will have 8 feats:

Power attack, weapon focus, spec are musts.

Furious focus does better that vital we add that.

Combat reflexes is worth more in mobile combats and helps dissuade enemies from moving past.

Big fighters draw will saves and by 6th you should have iron will to shore it up.

This leaves the human fighter with two feats left.

I would take cleave early and rather than train it out take cleaving finish.

Cleave gives some use though situational but finish will give you more attacks

James


Thac20 wrote:
At the point where you gain an additional attack, Quick Draw allows you to drop your bow as a free action, draw your sword as a free action, then full attack.

Not really the same.

Let's take this situation:

Round 1: Enemy is far away > Longbow
Round 2: Brawr with greatsword (drop longbow on ground)
Round 3: Enemy in front is dead, next at 20 feet so have to switch to longbow. But since it's on the ground > move action to pick up?

Alternative for round 3: Move 30 feet, and use vital strike.

>> 1 feat (vital strike) opposed weapon focus/spec (bow) + quickdraw +...


Rickmeister wrote:
Thac20 wrote:
At the point where you gain an additional attack, Quick Draw allows you to drop your bow as a free action, draw your sword as a free action, then full attack.

Not really the same.

Let's take this situation:

Round 1: Enemy is far away > Longbow
Round 2: Brawr with greatsword (drop longbow on ground)
Round 3: Enemy in front is dead, next at 20 feet so have to switch to longbow. But since it's on the ground > move action to pick up?

Alternative for round 3: Move 30 feet, and use vital strike.

>> 1 feat (vital strike) opposed weapon focus/spec (bow) + quickdraw +...

Counterpoint: it may be more common to encounter fliers than to encounter enemies that maintain spacing. Though your point is taken.


Ganymede425 wrote:
That's a lot of fun stuff that isn't in the core rulebook.

So you're saying if one sticks to core only, my point isn't true?

No one ever said core only. Even then, pounce is still available. Just not to those losers who the writers claim are supposed to be good at fighting. Druid, Sorc, Wiz, and maybe Cleric (I'm not familiar with the domains) can all pounce, right in core.

You can be a Fighter and go into Eldritch Knight. Nothing is forcing you to stay in Fighter to 20.


Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
The utility of Vital Strike is, like a LOT of things in Pf, dependent a great deal on play style.

Sort of. The problem is that there's no equilibrium point between "Vital Strike is a bad feat" and "you're better off just rerolling" where "Vital Strike is pretty awesome" can thrive.

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:

How often can you make a full attack? With some groups GMs like to have a lot of swinging from ropes, scabbing out of quicksand, or dodging battlefield conditions that makes full attacks much less common.

for example i play under a GM who who *often* has things like the fire jets from princess Bride's fire swamp in battlefields. an area gives some kind of warning, and if you are still in it after your next round you take damage. Sometimes a lot of damage. These battlefields are often not steed-friendly. Mobility is important.

Yes, and those GMs are utterly screwing over melee characters--there's not really any two ways about it. If you have a GM like that, play a caster or an archer, or you're boned.

"Fighty" types rely on making multiple attacks at level 6+ to keep pace with spellcasting (not that they really do keep pace with it, but they sort of can try). If you are constantly denied the ability to use full attack actions, then the GM is basically saying, "I am not allowing melee characters to function adequately."

In such a scenario, taking Vital Strike is like putting a band-aid on gangrene. You're better off just doing something else entirely than trying to play melee at all.

Don't get me wrong--I don't like that this is the case--if it were up to me, you could just make all your attacks as a standard action--but that is the way of things in 3rd edition D&D.

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
How common is DR/-? One of the things Vital Strike does well is increase your maximum damage output, and that's good for punching more damage through a foe who has DR you can't bypass.

No, it is virtually impossible to have so much DR that it's not better to hit multiple times. We're talking DR in the 30s here, seriously.

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
How often do you fight in tight, twisting spaces? Pounce works on charge, and charge must be in a straight line. Lots of dungeons make that fairly rare as an option.

I will say the same thing as above.

If you can't make full attacks, you are screwed as melee, and are better off doing something else, rather than taking a consolation prize like Vital Strike.

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
How often do fights have 4-8 foes? There are some very effective Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Furious Focus, Great Cleave, Power Attack, Vital Strike builds that do an awesome job of hammering one foe so you can drop him and Cleaving finish into another foe (who often ISN'T adjacent to the first foe, and thus not a legit target for normal Cleave).

You can't Cleave and Vital Strike in the same turn. You can Vital Strike and then Cleaving Finish, but you won't get the increased damage on the bonus swing.

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
One of our powerhouse characters in a current game is a human fighter with all those plus Weapon Focus and Weapon Finesse, and a few I'm not thinking of. (Devastating Strike, maybe?)

I can guarantee you that he would be more of a powerhouse with a different build (or class).


While none of my PC's have ever taken it, I use Vital Strike with any monsters with Flyby attack. It is good fun.


My NPC mobs, human and otherwise use vital strike all the time. Works great there. Damage gets spikey, lets my NPCs be mobile and makes for dramatic moments at time.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Guy Kilmore wrote:
My NPC mobs, human and otherwise use vital strike all the time. Works great there. Damage gets spikey, lets my NPCs be mobile and makes for dramatic moments at time.

You send mobs of Humans after the PCs? Do you use a swarm template of sorts?

By "spikey" do you mean piercing? That sentence makes no sense.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Guy Kilmore wrote:
My NPC mobs, human and otherwise use vital strike all the time. Works great there. Damage gets spikey, lets my NPCs be mobile and makes for dramatic moments at time.

You send mobs of Humans after the PCs? Do you use a swarm template of sorts?

By "spikey" do you mean piercing? That sentence makes no sense.

No. By mobs, he meant an NPC criminal mafia.

And when he said spikey, he meant that the damage was covered with sharp protrusions, much like a popular gel-assisted hairstyle.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Guy Kilmore wrote:
My NPC mobs, human and otherwise use vital strike all the time. Works great there. Damage gets spikey, lets my NPCs be mobile and makes for dramatic moments at time.

You send mobs of Humans after the PCs? Do you use a swarm template of sorts?

By "spikey" do you mean piercing? That sentence makes no sense.

OK, just in case you are honestly confused.

Mob or mobs is generally parlance for enemies, usually used in MMO's.

Spiky damage means that he sees damage with vital strike performing as follows:

Round 1 (9) -> Round 2 (27) -> Round 3 (9)

In short having irregular "Spikes" in its appearance if you were to graph the damage over rounds.

I do not necessarily agree with his statement I am just clarifying terms.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Oh.

I have no experience with MMOs, and am not familiar with the terms.

I find it odd that is assumed that all Pathfinder players are MMO players.

I wish it was not so.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm not.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Oh.

I have no experience with MMOs, and am not familiar with the terms.

I find it odd that is assumed that all Pathfinder players are MMO players.

I wish it was not so.

Ah no problem.

Personally I try to use as few colloquialisms as possible due to the fact that I am used to dealing with EASL speakers while in Japan, however I do agree that sometimes the terms thrown around without explanation can get confusing.

I do apologize if I seemed rude or condescending in my last post.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Oh.

I have no experience with MMOs, and am not familiar with the terms.

I find it odd that is assumed that all Pathfinder players are MMO players.

I wish it was not so.

I have no experience with MMOs as well. Mobs is just something I picked up to describe a mass group of monsters. When something Spikes it means you get extremes, I don't believe that has anything to do with MMOs either. I find that Vital Strike can add drama, especially when I have lots of dudes attacking.

I have used Swarms though for Humanoids. I have 19 level NPCs staving off multiple gigantic armies, so the grunt soldiers in an area are a swarm. Lets me put some risk and they have fun killing hundreds of dudes. Good times.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

No harm. No foul.


Spiking in reference to damage is used in MMOs. It references classes who's average damage is comprised of a low base damage augmented by spikes of higher damage. Rogues typically fall into this group in MMOs.


Just an interesting side note. "Mob" as used in mmo's is not a group of monsters but in fact one monster. It is short for mobile or mobile npcs as in early MUDs/MMOs players and things the players are meant to kill are the only things that moved.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I see.


BuzzardB wrote:
While none of my PC's have ever taken it, I use Vital Strike with any monsters with Flyby attack. It is good fun.

Monsters are different. They don't usually have iteratives so they may not lose anything by not full attacking. Flyby Attack is just adding insult to injury. You need a permanent fly speed to qualify so monsters can move both before and after a proper standard action that works with vital strike or cleave, but PC cannot because spring attack is pointlessly sucky.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Salt on the wound. Salt. on. the. wound.


I'm fine with most MMO terms ... except toon. I hate hearing toon.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I only get bothered when I get a defensive response to my lack of understanding of the terms.


Troubleshooter wrote:
I'm fine with most MMO terms ... except toon. I hate hearing toon.

Yeah, toon is a terrible term. It's an insult to the dignity of writers and programmers and artists and level designers even in an MMO context.

I don't like DPS either. DPS has no place in a turn based game. Unless each turn is one second, of course.


What no one else divides their DPR by 6??

No one ?????

;)


I can't wait to take my hellfire-spec wizlock through emerald spire. I've got 32 non-resist dps and I figure I'll just party up and grind until I get a thassilonian wrathful ring to souldrop.

This is what happens when you say toon too much.

51 to 100 of 241 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Vital Strike + All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.