Flying cavalier mount?


Pathfinder Society

Lantern Lodge 2/5

PFS Additional Resources allows dire bat and roc as an animal companion:
"Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary
Animal Companions: ankylosaurus, aurochs, brachiosaurus, dire bat, dire rat, dolphin, elasmosaurus, electric eel, elephant/mastodon, frog, goblin dog, hyena, monitor lizard, moray eel, octopus, orca, pteranodon, rhinoceros, roc, squid, stegosaurus, triceratops, and tyrannosaurus;"

"Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts."

Both start as size M then can advance to L at 7th level.

3/5

you quoted it there yourself.
"A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level."

that is your list as a cavalier. anytime in PFS where you might need the GM's permission according to a class feature, the answer is always no.

Grand Lodge 4/5

No other mounts than camel and horse are approved by the GM (PFSOP staff) for a Medium-size standard cavalier in the PFS campaign.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Now, a druid that happens to ride a flying mount, takes boon companion, and 3 levels of cavalier....

Shadow Lodge 2/5

There is currently no way to get a flying mount as a cavalier in PFS, this is not a hint that there may be a way to get a flying mount some time in the near or far future. A druid with boon companion and 4 levels in fighter will net you a flying mounted nightmare of death (which is what i assume you want) that will make GMs and other players sigh as one shot enemies in a scenario which may lead to people not playing with you due to sucking out all the fun.

Just as a note, if you can one shot enemies of a appropriate CR with minimum damage from a not crit, it's probably time to retire that character.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Conventions—Gen Con

Ryan Koetsveld wrote:

There is currently no way to get a flying mount as a cavalier in PFS, this is not a hint that there may be a way to get a flying mount some time in the near or far future. A druid with boon companion and 4 levels in fighter will net you a flying mounted nightmare of death (which is what i assume you want) that will make GMs and other players sigh as one shot enemies in a scenario which may lead to people not playing with you due to sucking out all the fun.

Just as a note, if you can one shot enemies of a appropriate CR with minimum damage from a not crit, it's probably time to retire that character.

That's... uh... assuming a lot from what the original poster said. Maybe he's just looking for a way to fly with a character he already has so when he fights harpies and other flying creatures, he's not reduced to a backup weapon...

That being said, I recommend training your animal companion to use air walk and buy a couple scrolls of it. You may not be able to use it, but someone in the party might.

Dark Archive 4/5 * Venture-Agent, Ireland—Dublin

Ryan Koetsveld wrote:

There is currently no way to get a flying mount as a cavalier in PFS, this is not a hint that there may be a way to get a flying mount some time in the near or far future. A druid with boon companion and 4 levels in fighter will net you a flying mounted nightmare of death (which is what i assume you want) that will make GMs and other players sigh as one shot enemies in a scenario which may lead to people not playing with you due to sucking out all the fun.

Just as a note, if you can one shot enemies of a appropriate CR with minimum damage from a not crit, it's probably time to retire that character.

I think the damage output from a flying medium-sized cavalier is a valid concern, but it would hardly be the only build blowing up encounters. More to the point, the issue I have with this position is its effect on a build involving a small druid--a halfling say--taking a dip in cavalier to become a small, winged lancer. I hit upon this thread because I've been thinking about making one, and I don't think it's OP at all.

With a small character, your strength is likely not going to exceed 14 and your lance will be doing d6 damage. Assuming you get to spirited charge at fifth level, you'd be doing 4d6+8 damage on a charge, 7d6+14 if you crit. And that's having sunk all of your feats into being a charger, probably sinking all your skill ranks into Ride and Handle Animal, eating an AoO on every rideby, being fairly useless when not mounted, and running the risk of instant death if you get fireballed out of the sky. Hardly OP. By contrast, a fifth level magus routinely does 6d6 plus his strength, plus his enchantments, going to 12d6 on a crit.

I think the rules as written account for this reality by making medium-sized flying mounts available to small druids at level one. I'd like to multiclass into cavalier because I like the concept of buffing your friends against the boss encounter as you swoop down into melee and/or swooping in with a cure spell as needed. Taking a dip in fighter lacks the je n'est sais quois of a cavalier.

The bigger issues with taking levels in fighter, as you suggest, is that the animal companion won't level with your druid, and, if anything, it exacerbates the risk of an OP lancer (by making more feats available early).

My two cents.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Just a note on experience with a flying mount in organized play:

I used a sure bat for an archer for a few adventures in LG. I discontinued because it has the unintended effect of concentrating attacks on the rest of the party. Not every party in organized play is prepared to deal with that. In LG, animal companions could be selected for each adventure, so one could be selective about what to bring; in PF, not so much.

Lest this be taken the wrong way, I'm just pointing out a consideration that is reasonable to add to the discussion, but isn't obvious.

Shadow Lodge

Howie23 wrote:
In LG, animal companions could be selected for each adventure, so one could be selective about what to bring; in PF, not so much.

Unless I'm missing something, an animal companion can be dismissed and a new one can be obtained by spending 24 hours in the proper environment praying. Now, since an undefined amount of time passes between sessions, there is plenty of time to change animal companions between adventures.

If a druid releases her companion from service, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer in the environment where the new companion typically lives.

3/5

but youre only allowed to attempt to train it once per scenario, so it would only have its bonus tricks if you switched it every time.

Dark Archive 4/5

Your actually allowed to attempt to train a companion a number of times equal to your Ranks in the handle animal skill which if you keep it maxed means you can add a number of tricks equal to your character level between each scenario

3/5

Caderyn wrote:
Your actually allowed to attempt to train a companion a number of times equal to your Ranks in the handle animal skill which if you keep it maxed means you can add a number of tricks equal to your character level between each scenario

i have never seen that rule, and it isn't in the pfs guide to organized play. can you quote your source? is it in a forum post somewhere?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Texas—Houston

asthyril wrote:
Caderyn wrote:
Your actually allowed to attempt to train a companion a number of times equal to your Ranks in the handle animal skill which if you keep it maxed means you can add a number of tricks equal to your character level between each scenario
i have never seen that rule, and it isn't in the pfs guide to organized play. can you quote your source? is it in a forum post somewhere?

It is from The Pathfinder Society FAQ

The Exchange 5/5

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Ryan Koetsveld wrote:
There is currently no way to get a flying mount as a cavalier in PFS

Uh, Potion of Fly is only 750 gp. Grayson feeds one to Ozzy whenever it looks like it might be good idea.

Kumakawa wrote:


With a small character, your strength is likely not going to exceed 14 and your lance will be doing d6 damage. Assuming you get to spirited charge at fifth level, you'd be doing 4d6+8 damage on a charge, 7d6+14 if you crit.

This is not quite correct. Spirited Charge with a lance is 3 dice, and a critical takes it to 5 dice. Crit multipliers are additive, not multiplicative, when they stack. So doubling with the lance, then doubling again with Spirited Charge, makes it 3x. Then tripling with the critical takes it to 5x damage.

Why is your strength only 14? My halfling cavlier, Grayson, runs with 18 Str, 12 Dex, 10 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, and 16 Cha at 8th level (started at 16 STR, put both level bumps in there).

Also, you are missing the most important part of all this. Damage for a small cavalier has nothing to do with the dice and everything to do with all of the things you add AFTER the dice.

Don't forget the ways to increase damage - Power Attack, Mounted Mastery, etc. These all multiply along with the damage dice on a spirited charge with lance. At level 12, Grayson's charge string is something like this:
Non-challenge, non-large target - +2 ghost touch, heartseeker, adamantium lance at +21 for 3d6+75 - that is on a ride-by attack wheeling charge, so no provoking, and if I hit, I get a free sunder/trip/disarm/bull rush attempt that also does not provoke.

If the target is large or larger, I invoke Risky Strike, taking a -1 penalty to AC to make the damage roll 3d6+90.

If I challenge the target, it gets ridiculous.
+23 for 3d6+111 on a medium or smaller opponent
+23 for 3d6+126 on a large or larger opponent

On a crit (19-20 with Mighty Charge), it is 5d6+185 on a challenge against a medium or smaller target and 5d6+210 on a challenge against a large or larger target.

That may sound like a lot of maybes, and I grant that crits only happen 10% of the time, but +21 for 3d6+75 against the vast majority of bad guys, added to the fact that I am 40 feet away from them after the attack, means that this cavalier is EXTREMELY effective in combat.

Add to that a +18 Diplomacy check and a +14 Intimidate, and he turns out to be pretty danged effective in the social world as well.

Frankly, this little halfling cavalier has turned out to be one of my favorite characters of all time to play.

[edit: sooo many typos!]

Grand Lodge 5/5

Caderyn wrote:
Your actually allowed to attempt to train a companion a number of times equal to your Ranks in the handle animal skill which if you keep it maxed means you can add a number of tricks equal to your character level between each scenario

Which is part of the reason why level 6+ Druid is even more ridiculously powerful. You could switch to an animal more appropriate for each mission, assuming you have the time to bond with the new one before the mission really gets underway (easier said than done in some scenarios).

For anyone who thinks this is a great idea, keep in mind any magical equipment you get for one kind of animal (horseshoes, for example) may not work for other kinds of animals you may want to swap out for.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Conventions—Gen Con

Zandari wrote:
Ryan Koetsveld wrote:
There is currently no way to get a flying mount as a cavalier in PFS
Uh, Potion of Fly is only 750 gp. Grayson feeds one to Ozzy whenever it looks like it might be good idea.

While I would agree that this would work, there is a legit argument that the mount may not be trained to move under magical flight, so some GMs might force you to push your companion to get it to move under a fly spell. That's why I trained my mount to move via air walk (which has a special provision which allows it).

Zandari wrote:
If the target is large or larger, I invoke Risky Strike, taking a -1 penalty to AC to make the damage roll 3d6+90.

So, I don't think that actually works. Risky Striker specifies that it can only be used on an attack action or a full-attack action, of which a charge is neither. (I wish it was though. I have pretty much the same build at 9th level, but with a different order since Order of the Dragon feels better as a defender of the Pathfinder Society.)

Silver Crusade 2/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

I'm pretty sure charge is a full action....

Sovereign Court 4/5

Charge is not a full-attack action, but a full action attack.

1/5

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I am going to leave this tidbit of info here.

SKR post that completely changes how you think mounted charging works

Don't want to click/TLDR: Your mount is charging, you are not. Thus you can do almost anything at the end of a mounted charge. Say...Greater Vital Strike.

The Exchange 5/5

Lab_Rat wrote:

I am going to leave this tidbit of info here.

SKR post that completely changes how you think mounted charging works

Don't want to click/TLDR: Your mount is charging, you are not. Thus you can do almost anything at the end of a mounted charge. Say...Greater Vital Strike.

Correctamundo! this includes Risky Strike.

I do tend to clear flying pig with new GMs before I wave it on, and I don't tend to try to get Ozzy to do anything particularly crazy with it.

Dark Archive 4/5 * Venture-Agent, Ireland—Dublin

Zandari wrote:
Ryan Koetsveld wrote:
There is currently no way to get a flying mount as a cavalier in PFS

Uh, Potion of Fly is only 750 gp. Grayson feeds one to Ozzy whenever it looks like it might be good idea.

Kumakawa wrote:


With a small character, your strength is likely not going to exceed 14 and your lance will be doing d6 damage. Assuming you get to spirited charge at fifth level, you'd be doing 4d6+8 damage on a charge, 7d6+14 if you crit.

This is not quite correct. Spirited Charge with a lance is 3 dice, and a critical takes it to 5 dice. Crit multipliers are additive, not multiplicative, when they stack. So doubling with the lance, then doubling again with Spirited Charge, makes it 3x. Then tripling with the critical takes it to 5x damage.

Why is your strength only 14? My halfling cavlier, Grayson, runs with 18 Str, 12 Dex, 10 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, and 16 Cha at 8th level (started at 16 STR, put both level bumps in there).

Also, you are missing the most important part of all this. Damage for a small cavalier has nothing to do with the dice and everything to do with all of the things you add AFTER the dice.

Don't forget the ways to increase damage - Power Attack, Mounted Mastery, etc. These all multiply along with the damage dice on a spirited charge with lance. At level 12, Grayson's charge string is something like this:
Non-challenge, non-large target - +2 ghost touch, heartseeker, adamantium lance at +21 for 3d6+75 - that is on a ride-by attack wheeling charge, so no provoking, and if I hit, I get a free sunder/trip/disarm/bull rush attempt that also does not provoke.

If the target is large or larger, I invoke Risky Strike, taking a -1 penalty to AC to make the damage roll 3d6+90.

If I challenge the target, it gets ridiculous.
+23 for 3d6+111 on a medium or smaller opponent
+23 for 3d6+126 on a large or larger opponent

On a crit (19-20 with Mighty Charge), it is 5d6+185 on a challenge against a medium or smaller target and 5d6+210 on a challenge against a...

Thanks for the clarification. I figured I was missing something (working off of the core rulebook and the APG I often am).

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Lab_Rat wrote:

I am going to leave this tidbit of info here.

SKR post that completely changes how you think mounted charging works

Don't want to click/TLDR: Your mount is charging, you are not. Thus you can do almost anything at the end of a mounted charge. Say...Greater Vital Strike.

I don't think you're reading that quite right. Here's the relevant quote from Sean's post:
Quote:
The mounted combat rules specifically say that you only get ONE attack if your mount charges.
Here's the exact text referenced from the mounted combat section of the CRB:
Quote:
...If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack...
and here's the FAQ about Vital Strike (bolding mine):
Quote:

Vital Strike: Can I use this with Spring Attack, or on a charge?

No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike.

Mounted combat allows you to make a single attack, NOT to take a standard action. So you can't Vital Strike. Neither can you use Risky Striker (which requires an attack action or full-attack action).

Grand Lodge 3/5 5/55/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've had my Taldan Samurai (he's a xenophobic jerk who is SO MUCH FUN to play) just borrow a caster's Summon Monster. Make your handle animal check, some ride checks.... Granted, YMMV, but Quimby DuCharn will always remember flying that dire bat to the ruined orbiting tower.

The Exchange 5/5

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Belafon wrote:


No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike.

Mounted combat allows you to make a single attack, NOT to take a standard action. So you can't Vital Strike. Neither can you use Risky Striker (which requires an attack action or full-attack action).

It has been publicly stated by campaign staff (specifically, Mike Brock), that although you cannot Vital Strike if YOU are charging, you CAN Vital Strike from the back of a charging mount. It was MegaCon 2013, at the table where he then proceeded to mercilessly slaughter my PC in Bonekeep level 1. I won't try to parse the reasoning, since SKR did a great job of it already. The exact same reasoning applies to Risky Striker.

Of course, in all my use cases, Vital Strike at the end of a mounted charge is virtually useless, adding 1d6+0 to my attack that already does 3d6+75. I am much more interested in making charges more frequent.

2/5

Beast Master Caveliers can get other mounts besides the Horse/Camel and Dog/Wolf if I read the additional resources correctly.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Conventions—Gen Con

Zandari wrote:

It has been publicly stated by campaign staff (specifically, Mike Brock), that although you cannot Vital Strike if YOU are charging, you CAN Vital Strike from the back of a charging mount. It was MegaCon 2013, at the table where he then proceeded to mercilessly slaughter my PC in Bonekeep level 1. I won't try to parse the reasoning, since SKR did a great job of it already. The exact same reasoning applies to Risky Striker.

Of course, in all my use cases, Vital Strike at the end of a mounted charge is virtually useless, adding 1d6+0 to my attack that already does 3d6+75. I am much more interested in making charges more frequent.

Is there a link somewhere to someone clarifying that you get an attack action and not a melee attack at the end of a mounted charge? If that exists, that would change a lot of how I work mounted charges.

Dark Archive 4/5 * Venture-Agent, Ireland—Dublin

Does a saddle for a small creature weigh half as much as a standard saddle? RAW looks like no, but it would make sense, wouldn't it?

Sczarni 3/5

We have a player at our tables who has his character feed his camel potions of flying. The local nickname for this character's camel has become "the camelcopter."

1/5 Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover

Has said player character some kind of time measuring device? One should know when the potions wears off.

The Exchange 5/5

Hayato Ken wrote:
Has said player character some kind of time measuring device? One should know when the potions wears off.

with the way the fly spell ends, there is only a small chance of him becomeing a "Camelbomb" - and if the rider is careful about how high he flys that would become no problem at all.

.
I do wonder if the Camel is named "Sopwith"....

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas

nosig wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:
Has said player character some kind of time measuring device? One should know when the potions wears off.

with the way the fly spell ends, there is only a small chance of him becomeing a "Camelbomb" - and if the rider is careful about how high he flys that would become no problem at all.

.
I do wonder if the Camel is named "Sopwith"....

In which case the Cavalier would need the nickname of either Snoopy or the Red Baron....

Spoiler:
Sorry, too much GMing recently, and running Pugwampies or whatever they (gremlins with the Unluck aura) are called leads to evil laughland waaaay too easily.

Well, that, and running it only a week or two after the bullrushing goblin...

Gremlin, with a -1 CMB, managed to take over a grapple. Not to mention the other gremlin whose opponent rolled a 1 on the die for maintaining the grapple, which, with a CMD of only 5, plus the +5 maintain grapple bonus, is the only way to fail to maintain a grapple on a pugwampy...

And the goblin, with a +0 CMB, managed to successfully bullrush two different PCs off the balcony, needing an 18 or better on each one. And both PCs managed to miss on their AoOs provoked by the bullrush.

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