Morgan Coldsoul |
I believe this is the right forum to post this. ^_^ As the subject line says, I'm looking for some insight from others who get creative with their magic items. In this situation, I have a pair of characters in one of my games who have become romantically involved; one of them is a healing specialist, the other a combat expert. As they began to RP throughout the campaign the process of courting and eventually entering into a relationship, the question of rings naturally came up.
Rings of friend shield were suggested, because they would enable the pair to help one another stay alive while simultaneously fulfilling the real-world symbolism the players are looking for for their relationship. However, the healer then stumbled across this spell, which everyone agreed was both thematic and useful, given the circumstances. The focus component, however (as you'll note), is a pair of matched 100gp gold bracelets.
Obviously, as GM, I could fudge things and just say that a pair of really expensive gold rings are definitely good enough for our purposes here. However, the players like the idea of "love bracelets" and decided to roll with it, so I began delving into what it would cost to get the same effect as the rings using bracelets, instead.
Here's where it gets sticky... Quite aside from the fact that Ultimate Equipment seems to have altered the description of rings of friend shield almost to indicate they are 50k apiece, rather than for a pair (that's not really part of this discussion, as we're using the original description), the wondrous item version (taking up the wrist slot instead of a ring slot on the body) just comes out cheaper, at a glance. Waaay cheaper.
There are a lot of twists and turns in creating magic items (can't wait for that new sourcebook!), and unfortunately, we all know rings and wondrous items can be among the stickiest in terms of figuring prices and costs. So, how would others handle or estimate the cost of a pair of bracelets of friend shield?
Relevant links:
Shield other
Magic item cost estimation
Morgan Coldsoul |
That is definitely one way to consider it, yes, but there are other factors at play here for which various cases could be argued. Some might debate the benefits and penalties of swapping the slot (i.e., if a bracelet is cheaper, considering what items are available to wear in both wrist and ring slot, is it actually worth the lower price to give up your wrist slot, does that depend on character build, etc.), but that is not my specific issue. In this case, I am more interested in the fact that Craft Wondrous Item is available at 3rd level, the same caster level at which the shield other spell becomes available, whereas the Forge Ring feat requires a minimum level of 7th to acquire.
Taking that into consideration, it's important to know if the same item could legitimately be recreated as wrist gear at a lower price than a ring, because a lower-level character with less available funds could then conceivably still manage it. This is why I'd like to see some different perspectives on the actual formulae people would use to enable such an item, and their thoughts on doing so.
Jeraa |
The level required to take an item crafting feat has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of an item. Making Rings of Friend Shield into Bracelets of Friend Shield will not change the cost. The cost is set by the effect of the item, and the items caster level, not the caster level required to take the item creation feat.
And I don't think Ultimate Equipment changed the price of the rings. The description still states "These curious rings always come in pairs." They just left out a note on the price, but the description still says they come in pairs, so you still get both rings for 50,000gp.
Also, the formulas are the last place to look for an items price. You always compare a new item to existing items first. Since A Bracelet of Friend Shield is exactly the same a a Ring of Friend Shield, you base the bracelets cost on that instead of what the formula says. A Bracelet of Friend Shield, which as the exact same effects as a Ring of Friend Shield, will have the exact same cost.
Morgan Coldsoul |
Perhaps I phrased it the wrong way; I did not mean to imply that the requisite level of the feat has anything to do with the creation cost of an item. Rather, because you can acquire Craft Wondrous Item at a lower level than Forge Ring, I am wondering if there is a legitimate way that the item can be created at a different price as a wondrous item than as a ring, so that a lower-level creator can more conceivably afford it, as opposed to the high price of the rings. Just because they have similar function doesn't automatically necessitate that they must also cost exactly the same price--that's merely a guideline, and I'm looking for a flexible mechanical discussion in that direction, not a hard-line ruling based on what another magic item already costs. If it comes out the same price in the end, then hopefully we'll still have had a useful discussion about why. ^_^
I know it's customary to compare item prices before dissecting a formula; however, because I am interested in the crunchy bits in this instance, I am also specifically interested in the formula. In reverse-engineering it, it seems there may have been some ad hoc adjustments made for the caveat that the effect of the rings has no range--this is one of the reasons why I'd like to see how other people would break it down for examination and assessment. In knowing the bits and pieces that go into the creation cost, one can learn why it costs that much and decide whether that price or a watered-down/alternate version, etc., is legitimate for the given circumstance.
Regarding the single/pair of rings issue, I was going by the remark on this page rather than looking at the physical book. As I stated before, not really part of this discussion, whether right or wrong, since for this game it doesn't matter.
Morgan Coldsoul |
Definitely an idea. I'd also like to try and figure out, if possible, what the "no range limit" element to the cost is, because it would still make sense (to me) if maybe a cheaper version functioned at closer range than "unlimited," provided no formula can be found to simulate the same item for less.