ArmouredMonk13 |
Sorry, I haven't had the chance to read through all the posts from the beginning. Could someone summarize for me - what have you guys figured out over the last 2500 posts?
We have determined that Caster>Martial>Fighter>Commoner as far as ranking classes. we have said that fighters should be able to get 4+INT skills (except for markthus who says differently) and are debating wheter INT based classes should get 2+INT or 4+INT skills, and some solutions have been posted on page 50 and seem like they might work. (Look for alternate fighter option for those I've posted, dementius's spoilered posts for his and markthus's leap attack for the recent ones) And have determined that there should be good, average and poor saves.
That the main problem with Fighters is people who don't think there is a problem with Fighters, as well as the people who know there's a problem and don't give a damn because magic is teh baist.
Also this and skipping pre-reqs pretty much sum up the last 50 pages
Kain Darkwind |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sorry, I haven't had the chance to read through all the posts from the beginning. Could someone summarize for me - what have you guys figured out over the last 2500 posts?
We've found out that some people ignore others.
We've found that people have a wide breadth of different concepts that they find integral to 'fighter'. For some, those are the feats. For others, that's the combat prowess. For still others, its the legacy of literary heroes who would be fighters.
We've found that some people have only played 3e.
We've found that some people really miss two skill points per level.
I personally have found that both 'fighter sux' and 'fighter rox' types rarely offer a new way of looking at things, in preference to ramming their diametrically opposed views' metaphorical skulls together. Kirth on the other hand has gotten me to at least think. This narrative power thing might be the key.
Arguecat |
Sorry, I haven't had the chance to read through all the posts from the beginning. Could someone summarize for me - what have you guys figured out over the last 2500 posts?
There's this post by Kirth that sumarizes much of what went before, at least for one "side" of the discussion (I'll let those who advocate for the other "side" summarize their take. To do it myself would probably come off snide).
Also this one by Kirth as well.
+5 Toaster |
Narrative power for martials in general (with fighters getting a touch more) is a good idea. to repost some of the things I threw out that got swept up in the mix. warning some aren't narrative power as much as just neat things to make a fighter look badass. replace bravery with picking immunities to conditions chosen from the mercies list(with a caveat that conditions granted by class features the fighter possesses, so no barb dips), and a an alternate choice to the army thing with giving the fighter spell sunder and on a successful attempt can have the treated as a permanent anti magic field centered on the fighter (call it disbelief or spellscar or something along those lines). I would add to this ability an automatic frightful presence effect for enemies who witnessed it. kirth, kain, sin, everybody else who I am too lazy to type the names out for, how does that look?
Caligastia |
One of the big problems with fighters is that they have no stat synergy anything used out of combat. Paladins have CHA and Rangers have WIS, and their class skills and features play to that. (Barbarians have CON, which probably wasn't the best design decision.)
Give fighters something to do with INT, like adding INT to AC or Attack or Damage, or give them an ability they can use 3+ INT times a day, like the ability to distupt a spell caster within reach regardless of concentration. Then give them more INT based skills as class skills and 4+int skill points. (I'd also like to see bluff and sense motive become class skills with bonus = 1/2 fighter level for feinting. Why should a first level sorcerer be able to feint the pants off of a 20th level fighter? If he's supposed to be so good at fighting that they named the class for it, at least make it so that he doesn't have a humongous gap in his fighting technique.)
Fighters plus high Int doesn't feel .. . Fighterish. I like the idea of letting a Fighter add his class level to Swim, Climb and Craft skills, to retrieve objects and repair broken equipment.
Nicos |
I think that comparing the fighter against caster is not suited for this thread. Specially narrative disparity. That disparity is about full casters and non-casters, if you want a fix in that regard you need to fix all non casters (and 1/3 casters).
if you give the fighter an army then the paladin, barbarian, and rangers are underpowered by alot so you need to give nice things to them too, So i think hat a discussion about fixing narrative disparity should have its own thread. I invite Kirth to make such thread.
============
I think this discussion should be about how the fighter compare against paladins, barbarians, rangers, magi and maybe cavaliers.
A discussion like this is more akin to the Op and to the initial pages.
Nicos |
Rynjin said somethin that I think is Important like 500 post ago. All proposed changes to the fighter should be reasonable so the devs can take them seriously.
An army is somting that will never happens in this eition of Pf so is a waste of time to talk about that here (the houserule forums is for that).
==================
Having said that my changes to the fighter would be
- 4+int skills per level
- Bravery is a +2 bonus to fear, an every four level it adds another +2. Besides, every 4 levels the fighter choose another condition (maybe from the palain list) an add his bravery bonus to saves agaisnt that condition.
I think those are the most critical, but I have other changes
- Armor mastery now stacks with adamantine
- Armor training 3 gives DR 2/-. Armor training 4 adds a +1 doge bonus to AC (yeah I know it is small but it is something)
Caligastia |
Here's another idea then, inspired by "Bardic Knowledge"
Fighter ability: Physical Prowess - Fighter adds half his level (minimum 1) to all skill checks for skills tied to physical attributes, and makes all such checks as if he were trained.
IMO that would solve the skill thing without requiring more skill points. Fighters would still have their piddling amount of skill points available to distribute into other things or to enhance their physical skills.
That still leaves some of the other areas, such as the world-affecting ability Kirth's ideas have been addressing, and which is arguably more important anyhow.
But at least this is an elegant solution, it doesn't alter skill points, and it emulates without replicating an ability another class has.
This is good. Still, though, there should be an option for a trait to up skill points to 4+Int.
Marthkus |
Powerful Leap Attack gives the fighter the ability to jump normally because the feat gives the fighter the ability to Leap attack. It wouldn't make since for an ability to give a fighter the ability to leap long distances and attack, and yet have the fighter unable to jump.
The feat doesn't require being a fighter because all martials should be able to grab it, but few would want to spend a precious feat on the ability to jump.
Oh and to those asking why make a bunch of neat feats as opposed to just giving the fighter more skill points, I don't think the problem with the fighter is an easy one to fix and I find the easy fix solutions to be bad and lazy.
Feat example2:
Intense Presence
Prerequisite Fighter lvl 6 or BAB 9
"Your combat skill and prowess is enough to trigger weaker creatures survival instincts.
When you ready your weapon, every creature that you consider an enemy within 30ft of you is affected by your presence based on their HD relative to your BAB.
Foes with HD lower than your BAB - 3 are shaken
Foes with HD lower than your BAB - 4 are frighten if they fail a will save equal to 10 + your BAB/2 + str mod
Foes with HD lower than your BAB - 6 are panicked if they fail a will save equal to 10 + your BAB/2 + str mod
Foes with HD lower than your BAB - 10 are panicked if they fail a will ave equal to 10 + your BAB + str mod
These effects are considered mind-affecting.
Additionally you may roll intimidation checks with a bonus equal to your BAB + str mod in place of the normal modifiers."
ArmouredMonk13 |
How does this seem?
For some, combat is learned due to mountainous foes, for others it is a rite of passage, and still there are those that learn purely for their own nefarious plots. Regardless of the reason, those who learn combat become near invincible on the combat field. These elite combatants are known as fighters for their ability to destroy anything in combat. They are truly the most versatile combatants
BAB: full
Saves:good fort, then one average and one poor (Player's choice)
Skills: 4+INT. Normal fighter class skills plus perception, sense motive, and heal.
Hit Die:d10
Alignment:any
Class features
Weapon and Armour Proficiencies(Ex.): A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with all armours and shields (including tower shields.) also, a fighter may wield any exotic one handed exotic weapon that could normally be wielded in two hands as a martial weapon (bastard sword, Dwarven Waraxe, katana, etc.) as if he were proficient.
Physical Prowess(Ex):All skills dependent on any physical ability score, perception, and craft, checks gain a bonus equal to half your fighter level (minimum one). At first level, a fighter may make a craft check to repair broken items (DC=damage item has taken).
Bonus Feats(Ex): at first level, second level and every even numbered level after that a fighter obtains a bonus feat that can be selected from the list of combat feats. At each level, he may switch out any feat for a new bonus feat, as well as he may spend a 24 hour ritual to exchange feats. These feats may be prerequisite feats as long as he is able to skip that feat as a prerequisite feat through his experienced feats ability.
Experienced Feats(Ex): At first level, a fighter may skip one prerequisite for any of his bonus feats. This prerequisite can be choosing a non-combat feat instead of a combat feat as a bonus feat, but counts towards the limit he may skip. He may skip one prerequisite at first level per feat and one additional prerequisite for every 2 fighter levels he has obtained. This ability may only apply to a fighter bonus feat.
Improved Bonus Feats(Ex):At first level, a fighter is able to use his feats full potential faster than any other class. His feats advance as if he were 1/2 level higher then his actual fighter level. Other class levels are unchanged by this ability. At 5th level, he is counted as being 1 level higher then his actual fighter levels. At 10th level he is counted as one and one half levels higher than his actual level. At 15th two levels higher and at twentieth level he is considered 3 levels higher than his actual fighter levels. These apply per level and should be applied retroactively whenever increased..
Bravery(Ex):As fighter ability but applies to all saves vs. Magical effects and increase by +1 per two levels of fighter. Also a fighter may choose a mercy from the paladin 6th level mercy list for every 5 fighter levels he has obtained. He is immune to this effect.
Weapon Training(Ex): same as normal ability but when gained at new level, applies bonus to new group as well as previous groups.
Armour Training(Ex): same as normal but gains DR 1/- each time armour training is gained instead of all at once at 19th level. This stacks with all other types of DR.
Armour Mastery(Ex):see Armour training.
Weapon Mastery(Ex): Applies to all weapons in selected weapon training groups.
New Feats
Healing Strike: you have learned your attacks can heal as much as they can harm.
Prerequisites:fighter level 1
Benefit: as a full round action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunities, you may make a heal check DC 15 to heal 1d10 HP. If you fail by 5 or more, you make an attack roll against yourself and take 1d10 on a hit or half on a miss. At 5thh level, and every 5 levels after you heal yourself an extra 1d10, but the DC Heal check increases by five. You take the amount you'd have healed on a hit or roll half the dice (rounded up) on a miss. At 5th level, you may attempt a healing strike on any creature within reach. The ally heals 1d10 less then you would've on a success, but gets hurt 1d10 less then you would on a miss. Instead of making an attack roll, your ally gets a reflex save, DC=your heal check, to take less.
Anti-Magic Glare: Your gaze can stop even the most potent magic. Woe to all who oppose.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 1
Benefit: You may make intimidate checks to put treat any creature you can see and know can use magic in an Anti-magic field (as per spell) To do this, you must make an intimidate check vs. Opposed Concentration check. If you succeed, They caster cannot use magic until combat ends, or you are at negative your Con. Score. You may use this ability once per day as well as any time you score a critical threat(whether or not you hit) or knock an opponent to zero or less HP. If you are a fighter (and not counted as one for the purposes for qualifying for feats) you may use this ability an additional time per day per level of fighter.
Awe-Invoker:Others are drawn to your physical prowess.
Prerequisites:Fighter level 7, Anti-magic glare.
Benefit:At any time you hit a foe, you may make an intimidate check against one non-ally of your choice within 60 ft that has line of sight to you, forgoing you second attack if full attacking, or as immediate action if charging/moving and attacking. The foe must make a will save DC= your intimidate check. If the non-ally fails, he is an ally towards you for being impressed by your mighty combat skill. He is your ally for one day, after which he is friendly towards you forever. If you do something to make him unfriendly towards you, he is forever panicked when he is capable of seeing you. If, controlled by magic, he may choose to use your intimidate modifier in place of his will save if higher. He gains a new save every time he is capable of seeing you. This ability only works on creatures that aren't friendly towards you and anything that makes its save is immune to your ability for 24 hours. At 9th level, and every 2 levels after that, you gain a cumulative +1 bonus on this check.
Marthkus |
Feat example3:
Impaling Strike
Prerequisites: Fighter 8 or BAB 11
"You may now use Blades as a piercing weapon.
As a standard action you can make an attack with any melee piercing weapon using half your BAB bonus. If the strike hits you threaten a critical hit and roll to confirm using your normal BAB bonus.
Additionally your ability to strike deeply allows you to climb any surface that you can damage with a melee piercing weapon at 1/4 your normal movement speed. This does not count as having a climb speed."
ArmouredMonk13 |
Powerful Leap Attack gives the fighter the ability to jump normally because the feat gives the fighter the ability to Leap attack. It wouldn't make since for an ability to give a fighter the ability to leap long distances and attack, and yet have the fighter unable to jump.
The feat doesn't require being a fighter because all martials should be able to grab it, but few would want to spend a precious feat on the ability to jump.
Oh and to those asking why make a bunch of neat feats as opposed to just giving the fighter more skill points, I don't think the problem with the fighter is an easy one to fix and I find the easy fix solutions to be bad and lazy.
Feat example2:
Intense Presence
Prerequisite Fighter lvl 6 or BAB 9
"Your combat skill and prowess is enough to trigger weaker creatures survival instincts.
When you ready your weapon, every creature that you consider an enemy within 30ft of you is affected by your presence based on their HD relative to your BAB.
Foes with HD lower than your BAB - 3 are shaken
Foes with HD lower than your BAB - 4 are frighten if they fail a will save equal to 10 + your BAB/2 + str mod
Foes with HD lower than your BAB - 6 are panicked if they fail a will save equal to 10 + your BAB/2 + str mod
Foes with HD lower than your BAB - 10 are panicked if they fail a will ave equal to 10 + your BAB + str mod
These effects are considered mind-affecting.Additionally you may roll intimidation checks with a bonus equal to your BAB + str mod in place of the normal modifiers."...
Feat example3:
Impaling Strike
Prerequisites: Fighter 8 or BAB 11
"You may now use Blades as a piercing weapon.
As a standard action you can make an attack with any melee piercing weapon using half your BAB bonus. If the strike hits you threaten a critical hit and roll to confirm using your normal BAB bonus.
Additionally your ability to strike deeply allows you to climb any surface that you can damage with a melee piercing weapon at 1/4 your normal movement speed. This does not count as having a climb speed."
Good idea Markthus, though, you suggest fighters don't need to use skills until 6th or 7th level.
ArmouredMonk13 |
The vanilla fighter class could use some tweaks, but the real problem is that feats suck. Until feats are less sucky there is no real way to fix the fighter and still have it be a fighter.
This is true, and your feats are also great contributions to non-sucky feats. I say that we (the population of those who contribute to this thread) should design, playtest, or at least give feedback on new feats.
Caligastia |
Fairly good, but Healing Strike doesn't hold any logic for how a non-magical character could use it. Combine with the feats and additions Dementrius introduced in pages 49 and 50 and you're working with something *serious*! I also like the idea of a Fighter being able to add half his class level to physical ability score skill checks that Porph made.
ArmouredMonk13 |
Fairly good, but Healing Strike doesn't hold any logic for how a non-magical character could use it. Combine with the feats and additions Dementrius introduced in pages 49 and 50 and you're working with something *serious*! I also like the idea of a Fighter being able to add half his class level to physical ability score skill checks that Porph made.
The point behind Healing Strike is that you are able to gain more battle stamina, like slapping yourself in the face to wake up. What if they went away after x amount of time like temporary HP?
Marthkus |
Good idea Markthus, though, you suggest fighters don't need to use skills until 6th or 7th level.
Intimidate would have to wait until 6. Jump can come whenever. The climb replacement is basically spiderwalk and shouldn't come before 8 anyways.
I haven't found much use for Intimidate before level 6 anyways with non-cha focused characters. With skill points a fighter would have his ranks, a +3, and his Cha mod. I think waiting until 6 and using your str mod instead or 3+cha is a better deal.
ArmouredMonk13 |
Intimidate would have to wait until 6. Jump can come whenever. The climb replacement is basically spiderwalk and shouldn't come before 8 anyways.
I haven't found much use for Intimidate before level 6 anyways with non-cha focused characters. With skill points a fighter would have his ranks, a +3, and his Cha mod. I think waiting until 6 and using your str mod instead or 3+cha is a better deal.
3+CHA, works for me. It both enhances your intimidate and skills overall.
Caligastia |
Caligastia wrote:Fairly good, but Healing Strike doesn't hold any logic for how a non-magical character could use it. Combine with the feats and additions Dementrius introduced in pages 49 and 50 and you're working with something *serious*! I also like the idea of a Fighter being able to add half his class level to physical ability score skill checks that Porph made.The point behind Healing Strike is that you are able to gain more battle stamina, like slapping yourself in the face to wake up. What if they went away after x amount of time like temporary HP?
Well, a person named RJ Grady had an idea for a Feat that let you gain a Vitality Reserve where, if you had a Constitution, you could heal damage to yourself. The problem? It was a general feat, and the Fighter needs a few unique things to help him out. . .
Would if the Fighter got a Second Wind when his hps went below half, that gave him more temporary HPs? That would last until the combat ends or after 2 minutes, whichever is first? Fighters are so geared around . .well, fighting, they should get this and it more directly applies to the Fighter class than Weapon Specialization. . . .
Marthkus |
So if a fighter want to be good a climbing he have to wait until level 8 and be forced to take a combat feat he might not want?
If by good you mean better than what the climb skill normally gets you then yes. Or he could spend one of his 2+int skills per level on climb instead of investing a feat.
Nicos |
So can we agree that the problem we have with fighters is more with pathfinder as a whole? We are inventing new rules and mechanics just to justify the fighter fixes itt, if that doesn't prove that it's the system and not the class, idk what will.
I would not agree. The fighter problems (compared to other martials, not to full casters) are not that big, in fact they are pretty straitghforward IMHO.
Marthkus |
Feat example (nothing to do with skills):
Second Wind
Prerequisites: Endurance, Diehard, Toughness
"As a move action you gain temporary hit points equal to your max hit point - your current hit points. These hit points last for 1 minute for every constitution point you have.
You may do this a number of time per day equal to your constitution modifier."
Marthkus |
master_marshmallow wrote:So can we agree that the problem we have with fighters is more with pathfinder as a whole? We are inventing new rules and mechanics just to justify the fighter fixes itt, if that doesn't prove that it's the system and not the class, idk what will.I would not agree. The fighter problems (compared to other martials, not to full casters) are not that big, in fact they are pretty straitghforward IMHO.
Why the hell are we not comparing to full casters?
Who cares if the fighter wins the special Olympics?
He's already better than every other class without guns or spells.
Arguecat |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So if a fighter want to be good a climbing he have to wait until level 8 and be forced to take a combat feat he might not want?
They've transitioned to trying to shove too much into Feat-form.
Fighter has a decent amount of Feats, but not enough to do that and continue to keep up with other Martial classes in combat. Siphoning off the Feats instead of giving a class ability is useless. Probably it is just generating a new multiplicity of Feats that won't be taken because there's something more necessary.
Or create a new Fighter Template, "Schrodinger's Fighter," the Fighter who has just the right feat at every specific moment he needs to have it (and swaps them out the way Schrodinger's Wizard swaps out spells, so he always has the right spell selection for any given encounter, no more and no less).
Or give Fighters a bonus feat every level, instead of every other level, but with the new 10 being ones that can only be spent on these type of Feats.
Marthkus |
I'm going to try and rewrite some feats now:
Power Attack (Combat)
You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
Your penalty to attack rolls from this feat cannot exceed your BAB
You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Nicos |
Feat example (nothing to do with skills):
Well, I have a couple of fighter feats
Improved Reach (Combat)
Prerequisites: Lunge, 12th- level fighter
Benefits: As lunge but its effects last until the beggining of your next turn.
Disruptive Expertise(Combat)
Prerequisites: Disruptive,12th- level fighter
Benefits: Choose one enemy within your threatened area. That enemy automatically fails their check to cast defensively.
Greater Combat Expertise (Combat)
Prerequisites: Combat expertise, 6th-level fighter,
Benefits: Whenever you use combat expertise you can add a bonus to your reflex save or your will save (player choise). The bonus is equal to the bonus to the Ac that combat expertise grant.
Evasive Shield
Prerequisites: Shield Focus, 6th-level fighter.
Benefits: Whenever you use a type of shield in which you have the shield focus feat You can add you shield bonus to your reflex saving throw against burst effects.
Blocking Shield
Prerequisite: Shield Specialization, 10th- Level Fighter:
Benefits: Once per round, you can transform an enemy melee attack against you into a Sunder attempt against your shield. This sunder attempt do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
You lose the benefit of this feat if you are flat footed, stunned, unconscious or paralyzed.
=====================
I still think that making good feats is not enough for the fighter (The non-combat utility of fighters worry me more than his combat prowess)
Marthkus |
Combat Expertise (Combat)
You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy.
Prerequisite: Int 10
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on melee attack rolls to gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class. Your penalty to attack rolls from this feat cannot exceed your BAB. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or a full-attack action with a melee weapon. The effects of this feat last until your next turn.
Also remove all feats that reduce or eliminate the penalties from power attack or combat expertise.
Nicos |
Nicos wrote:master_marshmallow wrote:So can we agree that the problem we have with fighters is more with pathfinder as a whole? We are inventing new rules and mechanics just to justify the fighter fixes itt, if that doesn't prove that it's the system and not the class, idk what will.I would not agree. The fighter problems (compared to other martials, not to full casters) are not that big, in fact they are pretty straitghforward IMHO.
Why the hell are we not comparing to full casters?
Who cares if the fighter wins the special Olympics?
He's already better than every other class without guns or spells.
Because that is a martial Issue. This is a fighter thread, if you want to close the gap between full casters vs martials that should be in other thread.
Marthkus |
Marthkus wrote:Because that is a martial Issue. This is a fighter thread, if you ant to clse the gap between full casters vs martials that should be in other thread.Nicos wrote:master_marshmallow wrote:So can we agree that the problem we have with fighters is more with pathfinder as a whole? We are inventing new rules and mechanics just to justify the fighter fixes itt, if that doesn't prove that it's the system and not the class, idk what will.I would not agree. The fighter problems (compared to other martials, not to full casters) are not that big, in fact they are pretty straitghforward IMHO.
Why the hell are we not comparing to full casters?
Who cares if the fighter wins the special Olympics?
He's already better than every other class without guns or spells.
Dumbest thing I've heard all day.
Nicos |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.Benefit: You can choose to take a penalty on all melee attack rolls (up to your BAB) to gain a +2 bonus (per point substracte from the attack roll) on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Marthkus |
Great Fortitude
You are resistant to poisons, diseases, and other maladies.
Benefit: You get a +1 bonus on all Fortitude saving throws and an additional + 1 for every 4 level you have
Repeat for Iron Will and Lightening Reflexes.
Magic Defense Training
Prerequisites: Fighter level 1
Benefit You get a +1 bonus to all saves against magical, spell-like, or supernatural effects and an additional +1 for every 4 fighter levels you have.
This feat does not stack with Great Fortitude, Iron Will, or Lightening Reflexes.
Caligastia |
Feat example (nothing to do with skills):
Second Wind
Prerequisites: Endurance, Diehard, Toughness
"As a move action you gain temporary hit points equal to your max hit point - your current hit points. These hit points last for 1 minute for every constitution point you have.
You may do this a number of time per day equal to your constitution modifier."
Somewhat better, but it should be as a class feature, not a feat; Fighters need something to set them apart from other martial classes. . .
Marthkus |
Marthkus wrote:Somewhat better, but it should be as a class feature, not a feat; Fighters need something to set them apart from other martial classes. . .Feat example (nothing to do with skills):
Second Wind
Prerequisites: Endurance, Diehard, Toughness
"As a move action you gain temporary hit points equal to your max hit point - your current hit points. These hit points last for 1 minute for every constitution point you have.
You may do this a number of time per day equal to your constitution modifier."
I am of the firm belief that the large quantity of feats they have is what should set them apart.
Caligastia |
They do, and it's a big plus to the Fighter, but Barbarians get Rage, Rangers get spells . .. . being able to recover HPs without being dependant on casters helps this. The thing about Fighters is that,they're so varied, it's hard to find something that fits them besides the things already there. I think Dementrius's suggestions give the Fighter the boost he needs, as well as all the skill stuff which has been gone over before. Second Wind is a *MUST* for Fighters in case they're seperated from the rest of their group, and the ogres are closing in. . . .there's simply no reason to *not* have it!!
ArmouredMonk13 |
What if in addition to normal bonus feats, fighters chose offensive or defensive combat at first level? If they chose offensive combat they gain power attack as a bonus feat and are always treated as having weapon focus with any weapon they wield (other than unarmed strike and sheild bash attacks) and at a certain level got better offensive abilities like being able to x/day add fighter level to damage rolls. For defensive combat gains power attack as bonus feat and is always treated as fighting defensively with no penalty but a reduced bonus. and later on could gain abilities like defending strike where they can sacrifice attacks from full BAB to gain dodge bonus to AC for x rounds.
ArmouredMonk13 |
Second Wind should be a class feature for fighters, or maybe something that lets them actually heal HP or make a non-magical cure potion equivalent. Maybe make them gain the ability to once per day be able to brew a "protean shake" of sorts that works like cure light wounds or infernal healing or better versions of these as the class progresses.
Caligastia |
Second Wind should be a class feature for fighters, or maybe something that lets them actually heal HP or make a non-magical cure potion equivalent. Maybe make them gain the ability to once per day be able to brew a "protean shake" of sorts that works like cure light wounds or infernal healing or better versions of these as the class progresses.
Second Wind + Dementrius's Feats = Better Fighter. If one of the third party Feats was in the game, Vitality Reserve is good, too, but alas. . . can't show that here.
Fighters have the best armor, with the exception of the Paladin, without the alignment restrictions of the latter. Would if a Fighter also got - as part of a Training trait - proficiency in 3 + Int modifier Exotic weapons? This would help. . .
ArmouredMonk13 |
Fighters have the best armor, with the exception of the Paladin, without the alignment restrictions of the latter. Would if a Fighter also got - as part of a Training trait - proficiency in 3 + Int modifier Exotic weapons? This would help. . .
One, fighters get better AC then paladins with tower shields, and being built to where -2 is nothing usually. Also, exotic weapon proficiencies would be nice, and I did incorperate that into my re-design posted earlier with the spoiler, but this might be just as good. Also, it should be 3+Str to represent that their physical might is so great they can eschew the -4 penalty with weapons.