Firearms


Pathfinder Society

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Grand Lodge

I was glancing at gunslinger and looking over the prices.

Do I have the math right in that a gunslinger, under PFS rules, pays 1 gold and 1 silver for every shot they fire?

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

Yes. And if they have a rank in Craft (Alchemy) an Alchemical Cartridge costs them 6 gold.


Firearms are big money sinks.

At least until you can get Abundant Ammunition regularly.

-j

Grand Lodge

Crafts(firearms) for basic bullets/powder, or is that also alchemy?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Don't forget 'Artisan Shop' gives a 5% discount to mundane gear of a type. Get Craft(Firearms ) as your day job and use that 5% off to help yourself.

5 PP.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

It's not so bad if you have a dedicated Day Job to help pay for ammunition.

Shadow Lodge

Nefreet wrote:
It's not so bad if you have a dedicated Day Job to help pay for ammunition.

True enough; I'm giving my gnomish alchemist a level of gunslinger at fifth level (particularly so I can use a pistol with Explosive Missile and Alchemical Weapon); at third level I was able to hit a 32 Craft (alchemy) on a take 10, meaning I get 75gp to replace the alchemical consumables I use in an adventure.

It'll also help cover those 6gp paper cartridges, which I plan on using (along with Rapid Reload) to get free action reloads...

5/5 *

Nuku wrote:
Crafts(firearms) for basic bullets/powder, or is that also alchemy?

Just having Gunsmithing gives you the 90% discount on regular bullets and powder

4/5

CRobledo wrote:
Nuku wrote:
Crafts(firearms) for basic bullets/powder, or is that also alchemy?
Just having Gunsmithing gives you the 90% discount on regular bullets and powder

Related text from the Additional Resources page:

Quote:
Gunsmithing does not grant the ability to craft firearms, ammunition, or black powder. Rather, it allows the purchase of bullets, pellets, black powder, and alchemical cartridges (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) at the listed reduced price, but does not grant a discount on the purchase of any firearm. Resold items gained through this feat are worth half the actual cost paid, not half the regular market value for the item. No PC can purchase a gun without this feat, even if they possess the Amateur Gunslinger or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feats.
Gunsmithing feat wrote:

Gunsmithing

You know the secrets of repairing and restoring firearms.
Benefit: If you have access to a gunsmith's kit, you can create and restore firearms, craft bullets, and mix black powder for all types of firearms. You do not need to make a Craft check to create firearms and ammunition or to restore firearms.
Crafting Firearms: You can craft any early firearm for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. At your GM's discretion, you can craft advanced firearms for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. Crafting a firearm in this way takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of the firearm's price (minimum 1 day).
Crafting Ammunition: You can craft bullets, pellets, and black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge. At your GM's discretion, you can craft metal cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the cost of the cartridge. Crafting bullets, black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).
Restoring a Broken Firearm: Each day, with an hour's worth of work, you can use this feat to repair a single firearm with the broken condition. You can take time during a rest period to restore a broken firearm with this feat.
Special: If you are a gunslinger, this feat grants the following additional benefit. You can use this feat to repair and restore your initial, battered weapon. It costs 300 gp and 1 day of work to upgrade it to a masterwork firearm of its type.

Thus, it costs 1s and 1c for every shot. MUCH more affordable. Paper Cartridges are, indeed, 6gp each.

Grand Lodge

Powder's base price is 10g. How did you get a 99% discount?

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Yeah been paying 11gp for my paper shots.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Nuku wrote:
Powder's base price is 10g. How did you get a 99% discount?
Steel Forged Games wrote:
Yeah been paying 11gp for my paper shots.

The answer is right above you:

Serisan wrote:
If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge.

Grand Lodge

Alchemical cartridges have their own base price, which starts at 12gp.

1/2 of 12gp is 6 gp.

I don't see how this reduces powder in standard bullets from 10gp to 1sp. Please explain, really, I'd love to pay less!

4/5

Nuku wrote:
Powder's base price is 10g. How did you get a 99% discount?

By failing to read the chart correctly. My mistake.

Grand Lodge

Happens to the best of us!

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

My problem with guns in PFS is how NPC's react to them. Guns and gunslingers are supposed to be extremely rare, yet every monster and NPC (or PC) you encounter seems to know exactly what you are and what the strange tube you're pointing at them will do. If they're so rare, the critters should be going "Huh? What's that?" not going "She's got a round crossbow pointed at me."

More telling is in social situations. Guns should get a bonus to conceal or something for trying to get them in to places weapons aren't allowed - because people don't recognize them as weapons! If they've never seen one before, they're not going to automatically assume the tube you've got is a weapon. (They might think its a wand?)

I don't know. It just seems we get the downsides of guns being "rare" without any of the benifits of it.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas

And most places, if they are disallowing weapons being brought in, will count wands as weapon-like items, and, therefore, disallow wands, and wand-like items.

And, to be honest, it would be; "She's got a crossbow handle pointed at me. Wouldn't do that unless they thought it could have some sort of nasty effect on me." And treat you as though you had some sort of weapon or weapon-like item pointing at them.

If you are acting as though item X were a weapon, it is likely that those interacting with you will start out by acting as though it were some sort of weapon, even if unknown to them.

Now, if you want to use the Bluff skill to make someone believe it isn't a weapon, that would be an opposed roll. The same or similar roll to making someone believe that the comb in your pocket is really a gun you have aimed at them.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

thistledown wrote:
More telling is in social situations. Guns should get a bonus to conceal or something for trying to get them in to places weapons aren't allowed - because people don't recognize them as weapons! If they've never seen one before, they're not going to automatically assume the tube you've got is a weapon. (They might think its a wand?)

I disagree. Guns, even if you have no idea what they do or how they work, are very obviously weapons. As you mentioned, they tend to look like crossbows that are missing a few pieces, and since crossbows are simple weapons most bad guys are going to be familiar with them.

Also, if I'm the type to make you check your weapons at the door, do you think I'm going to let someone walk in with a wand or spell staff? Hardly. :P

1/5 Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mystic Lemur wrote:
Also, if I'm the type to make you check your weapons at the door, do you think I'm going to let someone walk in with a wand or spell staff? Hardly. :P

The courtesy of your hall is somewhat lessened of late Théoden, King.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Conventions—Gen Con

Mystic Lemur wrote:
Also, if I'm the type to make you check your weapons at the door, do you think I'm going to let someone walk in with a wand or spell staff? Hardly. :P

That's why I like the guards of the Blakros Matrimony.

Spoiler:
You can bring in wands, but you have to spend a charge to prove that their harmless wands first. So you can bring in wands of cure light wounds, but no wands of enervation.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Ok, so my examples were crap. I still think random people show far too much familiarity with gunslingers. I'm not looking for a mechanical benifit as much as something in the RP fluff to demonstrate the "Hey, this is something I have't seen before"

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Id like to think our FAME plays a part in the world. The better well known a Gunslinger is, the more likely others will learn of his pistol of death or her boomstick. Then of course when the Gunslinger manages to hit the large and powerful bad monster thing quite easily with a small ball of lead/steel/other, the monster will take notice.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Don't forget.. if you look at the timeline of the setting. Guns have been around for around 100 or so years.. they are rare as hen's teeth due to the fact that the biggest source of the tech PURPOSELY maintains hat scarcity.

IF Mike/Mark wanted they could justify an advanced firearm as being something from around Arkenstar/their Dwarven Allies.. Not that I expect it to EVER happen.

I actually LIKE the idea that firearms are purposely curtailed by the artisans creating them.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

SCPRedMage wrote:
at third level I was able to hit a 32 Craft (alchemy) on a take 10, meaning I get 75gp to replace the alchemical consumables I use in an adventure.

How????

I am baffled by the possibility of getting a +22 Craft: Alchemy check by level 3... would you please mind statting that out for we novices?

5/5 *

I'll give it a shot:

Gunslinger 2/Alchemist 1
3 3 ranks in Craft (Alchemy)
3 class skill bonus
3 Int 16
1 alchemist bonus (competence, some GMs will not allow for day job since it's only to craft items)
5 Crafter's fortune spell (luck)
1 trait (trait)
3 skill focus? (untyped)
2 masterwork tools (circumstance)
1 ioun stone (insight)
2 Gnome Obsessive) (racial)

I can get to +23-24 there.

Having only gunslinger levels, I don't think you can get that high unless you are getting wands of crafter's fortune or some other more obscure shenanigans.

Shadow Lodge

Jack R Brown wrote:

How????

I am baffled by the possibility of getting a +22 Craft: Alchemy check by level 3... would you please mind statting that out for we novices?

Three levels of Alchemist, not including the Alchemy class feature bonus (as it specifically states the bonus only applies to creating alchemical items, so it doesn't apply to Day Job checks).

3 ranks
+3 trained class skill
+3 Int mod (16)
+2 racial - gnome Obsessive trait
+2 circumstance - Alchemist's Lab
+2 circumstance - Obsession Log (Advanced Race Guide)
+1 circumstance - Artisan's Shop vanity
+1 trait - Meticulous Artisan
+5 luck - Crafter's Fortune

The circumstance bonuses all stack because they all come from different causes (better tools, better knowledge, and better environment, respectively).

Total resources spent: 200gp for lab, 25gp for log, 15gp for adding formula from an NPC formula book.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 *** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

All sounds good to me... I have heard it can be done. Especially since many others have talked about being able to do that to take advantage of the Prosperous Convention boon.


Nuku wrote:
Do I have the math right in that a gunslinger, under PFS rules, pays 1 gold and 1 silver for every shot they fire?

No.

Shadow Lodge

Off in the Shower wrote:
Nuku wrote:
Do I have the math right in that a gunslinger, under PFS rules, pays 1 gold and 1 silver for every shot they fire?
No.

Actually... yes.

To fire one shot from a firearm, you need a dose of black powder, which costs 10gp, and a bullet, which costs 1gp. Under PFS rules, the Gunsmithing feat allows characters to buy those for 10% of the price, which comes to 1.1gp, or 1gp and 1sp, per shot.

The alternative is to use alchemical cartridges (which includes both powder and bullet), which you can purchase at 50% price, assuming you have at least one rank in Craft (alchemy). The cheapest alchemical cartridge is the flare, which has a price of 10gp, meaning it costs 5gp per shot. Of course, the flare does half damage (although it DOES have a chance to blind the target, and a chance to dazzle everyone else within 20ft), so you're more likely to use the "paper" cartridge, which has a price of 12gp, meaning a cost of 6gp per shot.

So yeah, it costs at least 1gp and 1sp per shot to fire a gun in PFS.


thistledown wrote:
Ok, so my examples were crap. I still think random people show far too much familiarity with gunslingers. I'm not looking for a mechanical benifit as much as something in the RP fluff to demonstrate the "Hey, this is something I have't seen before"

Just because something is rare doesn't mean people haven't heard of them.

Dragons are rare too. Most folks in the setting will know one when they see one, though.

-k

Shadow Lodge 3/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
SCPRedMage wrote:
Jack R Brown wrote:

How????

I am baffled by the possibility of getting a +22 Craft: Alchemy check by level 3... would you please mind statting that out for we novices?

Three levels of Alchemist, not including the Alchemy class feature bonus (as it specifically states the bonus only applies to creating alchemical items, so it doesn't apply to Day Job checks).

3 ranks
+3 trained class skill
+3 Int mod (16)
+2 racial - gnome Obsessive trait
+2 circumstance - Alchemist's Lab
+2 circumstance - Obsession Log (Advanced Race Guide)
+1 circumstance - Artisan's Shop vanity
+1 trait - Meticulous Artisan
+5 luck - Crafter's Fortune

The circumstance bonuses all stack because they all come from different causes (better tools, better knowledge, and better environment, respectively).

Total resources spent: 200gp for lab, 25gp for log, 15gp for adding formula from an NPC formula book.

I don't think you can use Crafter's Fortune (or any spell, even one that lasts all day) on a day job check; synthesists weren't able to use the Skilled evolution to give a +8 bonus for their day jobs and that was a class ability.

The rest of it is impressive though.


SCPRedMage wrote:
Off in the Shower wrote:
Nuku wrote:
Do I have the math right in that a gunslinger, under PFS rules, pays 1 gold and 1 silver for every shot they fire?
No.
Actually... yes.

No. Read what he asked. It does not cost 1gp and 1sp "for every shot they fire".

Scarab Sages

I think it was FAQ for crafter's fortune. A more knowledgeable person can tell you for certain.

5/5 *

Avatar-1 wrote:


I don't think you can use Crafter's Fortune (or any spell, even one that lasts all day) on a day job check; synthesists weren't able to use the Skilled evolution to give a +8 bonus for their day jobs and that was a class ability.

The rest of it is impressive though.

It was clarified by Mr. Brock in a different thread that Crafter's fortune is indeed legal for dayjob checks due to its 1 day duration. I'm sure someone can linkify it, but I'm on my tablet now.

Shadow Lodge

Off in the Shower wrote:
No. Read what he asked. It does not cost 1gp and 1sp "for every shot they fire".

Yes, it costs at LEAST 1.1gp for every shot they fire. One gold to purchase the black powder dose, one silver to purchase the bullet. All other options are more expensive.

If you're trying to say that "well, some shots can cost MORE than that, so technically the answer is 'no'", then the one-word answer serves only to sow confusion, and actively hinders the answering of the question.

EDIT:

CRobledo wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:


I don't think you can use Crafter's Fortune (or any spell, even one that lasts all day) on a day job check; synthesists weren't able to use the Skilled evolution to give a +8 bonus for their day jobs and that was a class ability.

The rest of it is impressive though.

It was clarified by Mr. Brock in a different thread that Crafter's fortune is indeed legal for dayjob checks due to its 1 day duration. I'm sure someone can linkify it, but I'm on my tablet now.

I believe this is the link you're looking for.

I had the formula before seeing that particular post, but I held off on using it for Day Jobs until seeing it; in fact, I even expressed my undying love of that ruling two posts down...


SCPRedMage wrote:
Off in the Shower wrote:
No. Read what he asked. It does not cost 1gp and 1sp "for every shot they fire".

Yes, it costs at LEAST 1.1gp for every shot they fire. One gold to purchase the black powder dose, one silver to purchase the bullet. All other options are more expensive.

If you're trying to say that "well, some shots can cost MORE than that, so technically the answer is 'no'", then the one-word answer serves only to sow confusion, and actively hinders the answering of the question.

Too many people don't read the rules, they just ask questions on messageboards and/or search for answers on messageboards. Blindly following the first post that they read. Heck some people don't even search for the answers to common questions before asking them.

Firing a gun in PFSociety with the Gunsmithing feat and at least one rank in Alchemy can result in the cost for one shot from a gun to be 1.1gp. It is possible but its not always the case.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas

Off in the Shower wrote:
SCPRedMage wrote:
Off in the Shower wrote:
No. Read what he asked. It does not cost 1gp and 1sp "for every shot they fire".

Yes, it costs at LEAST 1.1gp for every shot they fire. One gold to purchase the black powder dose, one silver to purchase the bullet. All other options are more expensive.

If you're trying to say that "well, some shots can cost MORE than that, so technically the answer is 'no'", then the one-word answer serves only to sow confusion, and actively hinders the answering of the question.

Too many people don't read the rules, they just ask questions on messageboards and/or search for answers on messageboards. Blindly following the first post that they read. Heck some people don't even search for the answers to common questions before asking them.

Firing a gun in PFSociety with the Gunsmithing feat and at least one rank in Alchemy can result in the cost for one shot from a gun to be 1.1gp. It is possible but its not always the case.

So, can you cast Abundant Ammunition on a waterproof bag? If so, and you keep firearm bullets and black powder in it, does that reduce the cost to just the material component of casting the spell on the bag?

Shadow Lodge

Off in the Shower wrote:

Too many people don't read the rules, they just ask questions on messageboards and/or search for answers on messageboards. Blindly following the first post that they read. Heck some people don't even search for the answers to common questions before asking them.

Firing a gun in PFSociety with the Gunsmithing feat and at least one rank in Alchemy can result in the cost for one shot from a gun to be 1.1gp. It is possible but its not always the case.

First of all, while I, too, find that particularly annoying, being a d**k to them doesn't help anyone; in fact, it can only result in a flamewar. So, yeah... please don't be a d**k.

Second, read again. You only need the rank in Craft (alchemy) to get the discount on alchemical cartridges; a gunslinger with zero ranks in ANY craft skill still purchases black powder and bullets at the discounted price.

EDIT:

kinevon wrote:
So, can you cast Abundant Ammunition on a waterproof bag? If so, and you keep firearm bullets and black powder in it, does that reduce the cost to just the material component of casting the spell on the bag?

Yes. Bullets are quite obviously ammunition, and black powder ALSO fits the definition of "ammunition", so the spell, as written, would cover both. Note that the container doesn't really need to be waterproof, and the piece of ammo used as the material component does NOT need to be the same as the ammo being replenished by the spell; you can use a bullet you paid 1sp for to cast the spell, then use the spell to refresh your paper cartridges.

Abundant Ammunition is a gunslinger's best friend. I'd say it'd be well worth it to pay the 2PP to get a wand of it, then ask a caster to use it on you at the start of every encounter. If you REALLY want to be nice to them, let them borrow a wrist sheathe to draw it from, too.

Also, if you have access to Ultimate Equipment, look into the Endless Bandolier; it'll hold alchemical cartridges, black powder horns, and bullets, as well as firearms, all at the same time, while weighing only 5lbs, regardless of what's in it, for 1500gp. It makes an excellent target for Abundant Ammunition.

Grand Lodge 1/5

Frak it, I'm making a Gunslinger and Firearms FAQ.


SCPRedMage wrote:
You only need the rank in Craft (alchemy) to get the discount on alchemical cartridges; a gunslinger with zero ranks in ANY craft skill still purchases black powder and bullets at the discounted price.

If I told you were wrong would you call me a dick again? Cause you are wrong. You have to have a rank in craft alchemy to get the discount on anything.

Quote:
Gunsmithing does not grant the ability to craft firearms, ammunition, or black powder. Rather, it allows the purchase of bullets, pellets, black powder, and alchemical cartridges (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) at the listed reduced price, but does not grant a discount on the purchase of any firearm.

I don't expect an apology but I'd appreciate one.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston

The parenthetical (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) clearly modifies "alchemical cartridges". You aren't really owed an apology.

Dark Archive 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Netopalis wrote:
The parenthetical (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) clearly modifies "alchemical cartridges". You aren't really owed an apology.

Actually, a parenthetical clarification written at the end of a comma-separated list can modify either the final item in the list or the entire list. Both are grammatically sound, so we have no way of knowing which one is meant.

If instead the parenthetical aside were placed somewhere within the list such that it was followed by another comma and at least one more list item, it would be completely clear that it modified only the immediately preceding list item. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We are instead left with two equally valid yet mutually exclusive readings of the text.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston

Grammar Nazi wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
The parenthetical (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) clearly modifies "alchemical cartridges". You aren't really owed an apology.

Actually, a parenthetical clarification written at the end of a comma-separated list can modify either the final item in the list or the entire list. Both are grammatically sound, so we have no way of knowing which one is meant.

If instead the parenthetical aside were placed somewhere within the list such that it was followed by another comma and at least one more list item, it would be completely clear that it modified only the immediately preceding list item. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We are instead left with two equally valid yet mutually exclusive readings of the text.

Not entirely. One of the most useful tools in linguistics is context. It would make no sense to split up the general requirements by putting one at the beginning and one at the end. Further, listing general requirements, then a specific exception fits in more with Paizo's general writing style. While I would agree if this passage were the only document we had from the author, that is not the case - we have voluminous documents which never use the second interpretation which you advocate.


Thanks GN.

Secondly it makes NO SENSE given the fact they explicitly state you do not craft anything just buy cheaper materials.

Dark Archive 2/5

Netopalis wrote:
It would make no sense to split up the general requirements by putting one at the beginning and one at the end.

No one is suggesting this, which makes me suspect you misread my post.

Quote:
Further, listing general requirements, then a specific exception fits in more with Paizo's general writing style.

Can you supply some examples?

Quote:
we have voluminous documents which never use the second interpretation which you advocate.

Is that so?

Core Rulebook wrote:
Common "take 20" skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).

The parenthetical clarification about the Disable Device skill is formatted exactly as I described, appearing with another comma and at least one more list item after it.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston

Ah, sorry, I misspoke. I meant your first interpretation. The perception segment of the rule that you cite is one example. Another is Blinding Critical:

Quote:
Whenever you score a critical hit, your opponent is permanently blinded. A successful Fortitude save reduces this to dazzled for 1d4 rounds. The DC of this Fortitude save is equal to 10 + your base attack bonus. This feat has no effect on creatures that do not rely on eyes for sight or creatures with more than two eyes (although multiple critical hits might cause blindness, at the GM's discretion). Blindness can be cured by heal, regeneration, remove blindness, or similar abilities.

It wouldn't make sense for the parenthetical to apply to those creatures who don't use sight, or to have it apply as a general rule.

As for nobody supporting what I am arguing against, Off in the Shower is insisting that Craft(Alchemy) is required for ANY discount from gunsmithing. While this is a largely academic point, as any gunslinger worth their salt shot would have a rank in craft(alchemy), I felt it was necessary to chime in.

Dark Archive 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Netopalis wrote:
The perception segment of the rule that you cite is one example. Another is Blinding Critical

I was speaking only of how to interpret parenthetical clauses within the context of comma-separated lists, not just any old parenthetical clause. The text you quoted from Blinding Critical is irrelevant to my points.

Quote:
As for nobody supporting what I am arguing against, Off in the Shower is insisting that Craft(Alchemy) is required for ANY discount from gunsmithing. While this is a largely academic point, as any gunslinger worth their salt shot would have a rank in craft(alchemy), I felt it was necessary to chime in.

I don't care. I'm the Grammar Nazi, not the Gunslinger Nazi.

Shadow Lodge

Grammar Nazi wrote:
Both are grammatically sound, so we have no way of knowing which one is meant.

Ah, but we DO in fact have a way of knowing which is meant: FURTHER CONTEXT.

Gunsmithing wrote:
Crafting Ammunition: You can craft bullets, pellets, and black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge. At your GM’s discretion, you can craft metal cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the cost of the cartridge. Crafting bullets, black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).

As you can see, the Gunsmithing feat itself, which the rule we are debating modifies, only requires the rank in Craft (alchemy) in order to make alchemical cartridges, and does not require ANYTHING in order to craft bullets, pellets, and black powder.

If the parenthetical can grammatically apply to either the whole list or only the final item, then logically it should apply to whatever is backed up by the context of the list. With the bit of context shown above, it should be quite clear that the parenthetical should only apply to the last item in the list.

In fact, the PFS rule clearly only exists to state that you are PURCHASING these items instead of CRAFTING them, in pursuance to the general "no crafting" rules of PFS, without modifying the economics the class is based upon.

Bottom line: anyone with the Gunsmithing feat can purchase bullets, pellets, and black powder for 10% of the price, with or without ranks of Craft (alchemy). Anyone with the Gunsmithing feat AND at least one rank in Craft (alchemy) can ALSO purchase alchemical cartridges for 50% of the price.

Dark Archive 2/5

SCPRedMage wrote:
Grammar Nazi wrote:
Both are grammatically sound, so we have no way of knowing which one is meant.

Ah, but we DO in fact have a way of knowing which is meant: FURTHER CONTEXT.

Gunsmithing wrote:
Crafting Ammunition: You can craft bullets, pellets, and black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge. At your GM’s discretion, you can craft metal cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the cost of the cartridge. Crafting bullets, black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).
As you can see, the Gunsmithing feat itself, which the rule we are debating modifies, only requires the rank in Craft (alchemy) in order to make alchemical cartridges, and does not require ANYTHING in order to craft bullets, pellets, and black powder.

I approve of this application of context.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
SCPRedMage wrote:
Bottom line: anyone with the Gunsmithing feat can purchase bullets, pellets, and black powder for 10% of the price, with or without ranks of Craft (alchemy). Anyone with the Gunsmithing feat AND at least one rank in Craft (alchemy) can ALSO purchase alchemical cartridges for 50% of the price.

Can someone from Paizo please double tap this interpretation? I know how much staff loves re-answering rules questions and for that I apologize.

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