Firearms are big money sinks.
At least until you can get Abundant Ammunition regularly.
-j
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Crafts(firearms) for basic bullets/powder, or is that also alchemy?Just having Gunsmithing gives you the 90% discount on regular bullets and powder
Related text from the Additional Resources page:
Gunsmithing does not grant the ability to craft firearms, ammunition, or black powder. Rather, it allows the purchase of bullets, pellets, black powder, and alchemical cartridges (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) at the listed reduced price, but does not grant a discount on the purchase of any firearm. Resold items gained through this feat are worth half the actual cost paid, not half the regular market value for the item. No PC can purchase a gun without this feat, even if they possess the Amateur Gunslinger or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feats.
Gunsmithing
You know the secrets of repairing and restoring firearms.
Benefit: If you have access to a gunsmith's kit, you can create and restore firearms, craft bullets, and mix black powder for all types of firearms. You do not need to make a Craft check to create firearms and ammunition or to restore firearms.
Crafting Firearms: You can craft any early firearm for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. At your GM's discretion, you can craft advanced firearms for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. Crafting a firearm in this way takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of the firearm's price (minimum 1 day).
Crafting Ammunition: You can craft bullets, pellets, and black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge. At your GM's discretion, you can craft metal cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the cost of the cartridge. Crafting bullets, black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).
Restoring a Broken Firearm: Each day, with an hour's worth of work, you can use this feat to repair a single firearm with the broken condition. You can take time during a rest period to restore a broken firearm with this feat.
Special: If you are a gunslinger, this feat grants the following additional benefit. You can use this feat to repair and restore your initial, battered weapon. It costs 300 gp and 1 day of work to upgrade it to a masterwork firearm of its type.
Thus, it costs 1s and 1c for every shot. MUCH more affordable. Paper Cartridges are, indeed, 6gp each.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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My problem with guns in PFS is how NPC's react to them. Guns and gunslingers are supposed to be extremely rare, yet every monster and NPC (or PC) you encounter seems to know exactly what you are and what the strange tube you're pointing at them will do. If they're so rare, the critters should be going "Huh? What's that?" not going "She's got a round crossbow pointed at me."
More telling is in social situations. Guns should get a bonus to conceal or something for trying to get them in to places weapons aren't allowed - because people don't recognize them as weapons! If they've never seen one before, they're not going to automatically assume the tube you've got is a weapon. (They might think its a wand?)
I don't know. It just seems we get the downsides of guns being "rare" without any of the benifits of it.
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And most places, if they are disallowing weapons being brought in, will count wands as weapon-like items, and, therefore, disallow wands, and wand-like items.
And, to be honest, it would be; "She's got a crossbow handle pointed at me. Wouldn't do that unless they thought it could have some sort of nasty effect on me." And treat you as though you had some sort of weapon or weapon-like item pointing at them.
If you are acting as though item X were a weapon, it is likely that those interacting with you will start out by acting as though it were some sort of weapon, even if unknown to them.
Now, if you want to use the Bluff skill to make someone believe it isn't a weapon, that would be an opposed roll. The same or similar roll to making someone believe that the comb in your pocket is really a gun you have aimed at them.
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More telling is in social situations. Guns should get a bonus to conceal or something for trying to get them in to places weapons aren't allowed - because people don't recognize them as weapons! If they've never seen one before, they're not going to automatically assume the tube you've got is a weapon. (They might think its a wand?)
I disagree. Guns, even if you have no idea what they do or how they work, are very obviously weapons. As you mentioned, they tend to look like crossbows that are missing a few pieces, and since crossbows are simple weapons most bad guys are going to be familiar with them.
Also, if I'm the type to make you check your weapons at the door, do you think I'm going to let someone walk in with a wand or spell staff? Hardly. :P
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Also, if I'm the type to make you check your weapons at the door, do you think I'm going to let someone walk in with a wand or spell staff? Hardly. :P
That's why I like the guards of the Blakros Matrimony.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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Ok, so my examples were crap. I still think random people show far too much familiarity with gunslingers. I'm not looking for a mechanical benifit as much as something in the RP fluff to demonstrate the "Hey, this is something I have't seen before"
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Id like to think our FAME plays a part in the world. The better well known a Gunslinger is, the more likely others will learn of his pistol of death or her boomstick. Then of course when the Gunslinger manages to hit the large and powerful bad monster thing quite easily with a small ball of lead/steel/other, the monster will take notice.
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Don't forget.. if you look at the timeline of the setting. Guns have been around for around 100 or so years.. they are rare as hen's teeth due to the fact that the biggest source of the tech PURPOSELY maintains hat scarcity.
IF Mike/Mark wanted they could justify an advanced firearm as being something from around Arkenstar/their Dwarven Allies.. Not that I expect it to EVER happen.
I actually LIKE the idea that firearms are purposely curtailed by the artisans creating them.
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I'll give it a shot:
Gunslinger 2/Alchemist 1
3 3 ranks in Craft (Alchemy)
3 class skill bonus
3 Int 16
1 alchemist bonus (competence, some GMs will not allow for day job since it's only to craft items)
5 Crafter's fortune spell (luck)
1 trait (trait)
3 skill focus? (untyped)
2 masterwork tools (circumstance)
1 ioun stone (insight)
2 Gnome Obsessive) (racial)
I can get to +23-24 there.
Having only gunslinger levels, I don't think you can get that high unless you are getting wands of crafter's fortune or some other more obscure shenanigans.
Ok, so my examples were crap. I still think random people show far too much familiarity with gunslingers. I'm not looking for a mechanical benifit as much as something in the RP fluff to demonstrate the "Hey, this is something I have't seen before"
Just because something is rare doesn't mean people haven't heard of them.
Dragons are rare too. Most folks in the setting will know one when they see one, though.
-k
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How????
I am baffled by the possibility of getting a +22 Craft: Alchemy check by level 3... would you please mind statting that out for we novices?
Three levels of Alchemist, not including the Alchemy class feature bonus (as it specifically states the bonus only applies to creating alchemical items, so it doesn't apply to Day Job checks).
3 ranks
+3 trained class skill
+3 Int mod (16)
+2 racial - gnome Obsessive trait
+2 circumstance - Alchemist's Lab
+2 circumstance - Obsession Log (Advanced Race Guide)
+1 circumstance - Artisan's Shop vanity
+1 trait - Meticulous Artisan
+5 luck - Crafter's FortuneThe circumstance bonuses all stack because they all come from different causes (better tools, better knowledge, and better environment, respectively).
Total resources spent: 200gp for lab, 25gp for log, 15gp for adding formula from an NPC formula book.
I don't think you can use Crafter's Fortune (or any spell, even one that lasts all day) on a day job check; synthesists weren't able to use the Skilled evolution to give a +8 bonus for their day jobs and that was a class ability.
The rest of it is impressive though.
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I don't think you can use Crafter's Fortune (or any spell, even one that lasts all day) on a day job check; synthesists weren't able to use the Skilled evolution to give a +8 bonus for their day jobs and that was a class ability.The rest of it is impressive though.
It was clarified by Mr. Brock in a different thread that Crafter's fortune is indeed legal for dayjob checks due to its 1 day duration. I'm sure someone can linkify it, but I'm on my tablet now.
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No. Read what he asked. It does not cost 1gp and 1sp "for every shot they fire".Yes, it costs at LEAST 1.1gp for every shot they fire. One gold to purchase the black powder dose, one silver to purchase the bullet. All other options are more expensive.
If you're trying to say that "well, some shots can cost MORE than that, so technically the answer is 'no'", then the one-word answer serves only to sow confusion, and actively hinders the answering of the question.
Too many people don't read the rules, they just ask questions on messageboards and/or search for answers on messageboards. Blindly following the first post that they read. Heck some people don't even search for the answers to common questions before asking them.
Firing a gun in PFSociety with the Gunsmithing feat and at least one rank in Alchemy can result in the cost for one shot from a gun to be 1.1gp. It is possible but its not always the case.
So, can you cast Abundant Ammunition on a waterproof bag? If so, and you keep firearm bullets and black powder in it, does that reduce the cost to just the material component of casting the spell on the bag?
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The parenthetical (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) clearly modifies "alchemical cartridges". You aren't really owed an apology.
Actually, a parenthetical clarification written at the end of a comma-separated list can modify either the final item in the list or the entire list. Both are grammatically sound, so we have no way of knowing which one is meant.
If instead the parenthetical aside were placed somewhere within the list such that it was followed by another comma and at least one more list item, it would be completely clear that it modified only the immediately preceding list item. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We are instead left with two equally valid yet mutually exclusive readings of the text.
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Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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The parenthetical (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) clearly modifies "alchemical cartridges". You aren't really owed an apology.Actually, a parenthetical clarification written at the end of a comma-separated list can modify either the final item in the list or the entire list. Both are grammatically sound, so we have no way of knowing which one is meant.
If instead the parenthetical aside were placed somewhere within the list such that it was followed by another comma and at least one more list item, it would be completely clear that it modified only the immediately preceding list item. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We are instead left with two equally valid yet mutually exclusive readings of the text.
Not entirely. One of the most useful tools in linguistics is context. It would make no sense to split up the general requirements by putting one at the beginning and one at the end. Further, listing general requirements, then a specific exception fits in more with Paizo's general writing style. While I would agree if this passage were the only document we had from the author, that is not the case - we have voluminous documents which never use the second interpretation which you advocate.
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It would make no sense to split up the general requirements by putting one at the beginning and one at the end.
No one is suggesting this, which makes me suspect you misread my post.
Further, listing general requirements, then a specific exception fits in more with Paizo's general writing style.
Can you supply some examples?
we have voluminous documents which never use the second interpretation which you advocate.
Is that so?
Common "take 20" skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).
The parenthetical clarification about the Disable Device skill is formatted exactly as I described, appearing with another comma and at least one more list item after it.
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Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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Ah, sorry, I misspoke. I meant your first interpretation. The perception segment of the rule that you cite is one example. Another is Blinding Critical:
Whenever you score a critical hit, your opponent is permanently blinded. A successful Fortitude save reduces this to dazzled for 1d4 rounds. The DC of this Fortitude save is equal to 10 + your base attack bonus. This feat has no effect on creatures that do not rely on eyes for sight or creatures with more than two eyes (although multiple critical hits might cause blindness, at the GM's discretion). Blindness can be cured by heal, regeneration, remove blindness, or similar abilities.
It wouldn't make sense for the parenthetical to apply to those creatures who don't use sight, or to have it apply as a general rule.
As for nobody supporting what I am arguing against, Off in the Shower is insisting that Craft(Alchemy) is required for ANY discount from gunsmithing. While this is a largely academic point, as any gunslinger worth their salt shot would have a rank in craft(alchemy), I felt it was necessary to chime in.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The perception segment of the rule that you cite is one example. Another is Blinding Critical
I was speaking only of how to interpret parenthetical clauses within the context of comma-separated lists, not just any old parenthetical clause. The text you quoted from Blinding Critical is irrelevant to my points.
As for nobody supporting what I am arguing against, Off in the Shower is insisting that Craft(Alchemy) is required for ANY discount from gunsmithing. While this is a largely academic point, as any gunslinger worth their salt shot would have a rank in craft(alchemy), I felt it was necessary to chime in.
I don't care. I'm the Grammar Nazi, not the Gunslinger Nazi.
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Both are grammatically sound, so we have no way of knowing which one is meant.Ah, but we DO in fact have a way of knowing which is meant: FURTHER CONTEXT.
Crafting Ammunition: You can craft bullets, pellets, and black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge. At your GM’s discretion, you can craft metal cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the cost of the cartridge. Crafting bullets, black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).As you can see, the Gunsmithing feat itself, which the rule we are debating modifies, only requires the rank in Craft (alchemy) in order to make alchemical cartridges, and does not require ANYTHING in order to craft bullets, pellets, and black powder.
I approve of this application of context.