Where are all the dwarves?


Pathfinder Society

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The Exchange 3/5

I've only been playing Pathfinder Society for five or six months and I've yet to encounter a single dwarf npc, villian, anything.

We play weekly so I've got an alright number of scenario's under my belt considering I've only played for this long.

Time and again though my dwarf paladin is stuck with feelings of loneliness as we travel the word and delve dungeons deep and not a single sign of dwarves exist.

At this point I've started making quips about being the last dwarf in the Inner Sea and stylizing myself as a Prince of dwarves since none left exist to challenge my claim!

Basically my question is, are their any scenarios that feature a mainly dwarven story, but at this point I'd settle for just seeing another dwarf in a scenario.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Codanous, check THIS out.


Also, other current season 4 scenarios with dwarves in them: 4-00 Race for the Runecarved Key, 4-2 In Wrath's Shadow, 4-10 Feast of Sigils, 4-12 Refuge of Time.

Dark Archive 4/5

I would see if you can get someone to run The Beggar's Pearl for you. Below the Silver Tarn and Feast of Sigils will also have a bit of dwarf in them.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Below the Silver Tarn and Feast of Sigils will also have a bit of dwarf in them.

Or to put it another way: "There's dwarf, egg, sausage, and dwarf, that doesn't have MUCH dwarf in it."

The Exchange 3/5

Thanks guys! I was getting a bit worried about my predicament here.

I knew coming to the forums though should yield an answer. I'll have to check some of these out!

Grand Lodge 3/5

The lack of dwarves in scenarios is rather blatant. There isn't really any good dwarven factions in PFS either. To sort of feel at home I made my Stonelord a Pahmet dwarf from Osirion.

Silver Crusade 4/5

More than just as NPC's, in our area, I can't think of a time I've met another Dwarf PC! I've met more Tengus than Dwarves round the table. And it can't be the speed impediment because I see a bunch of halflings and gnomes. Most intriguing. I will also have to look into playing the scenarios mentioned above.

Grand Lodge 3/5

There aren't many but off the top of my head:
Beggar's Pearl
Citadel of Flame
Murder on the Throaty Mermaid
Feasts of Sigials
all have interesting Dwarven NPCs.

We're out there we're normaly a little too level headed to get involved in the antics of the Pathfinder Society or we're just to clever to get caught ;)

- Gregor "Butters" Thangaul
Blind Dwarven Barbarian Rogue.

Silver Crusade

The Ouat dwarves of Osirion need a lot more love. It would help break up the monoculture at the very least.

Grand Lodge 4/5

There is a dwarf NPC in 'Cyphermage Dilemma'. Roleplaying her is typically my favorite part of the scenario, especially if certain factions are present.

The Exchange 3/5

Its true, we are still kind of small only have about 20 total players on average a week and in this whole time I'm the only one who has played a Dwarf.
My dwarf is a Stonelord of the Silver Crusade only because I couldn't think of another faction that'd fit, I'd completely forgotten about the dwarves in Osirion though so that would have made for a good faction as well.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Codanous wrote:

Its true, we are still kind of small only have about 20 total players on average a week and in this whole time I'm the only one who has played a Dwarf.

My dwarf is a Stonelord of the Silver Crusade only because I couldn't think of another faction that'd fit, I'd completely forgotten about the dwarves in Osirion though so that would have made for a good faction as well.

Two of my nine characters are dwarves. One is an 8th ranger (Grand Lodge). The other is a 3rd level cleric of Torag (Silver Crusade).

Nathan Meyers
NYC Player/GM

Sczarni 1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

In-character comment follows:

"I took on a Society mission* into the Tapestry with four dwarves. I've never seen a more stubborn group of people. They disregarded my advice to leave while we still had our hides, and got me killed in the process. Oh, they were contrite enough after they got me raised from the dead, but I have an allergic reaction to dwarves now. If I ever have one show up on my ship, I might well have to test out how well he serves as an extra anchor."

* - Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment

OOC: Those four dwarves were among the only dwarves I've encountered in PFS play.

The Exchange 3/5

Xan Stormblade wrote:

In-character comment follows:

"I took on a Society mission* into the Tapestry with four dwarves. I've never seen a more stubborn group of people. They disregarded my advice to leave while we still had our hides, and got me killed in the process. Oh, they were contrite enough after they got me raised from the dead, but I have an allergic reaction to dwarves now. If I ever have one show up on my ship, I might well have to test out how well he serves as an extra anchor."

* - Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment

OOC: Those four dwarves were among the only dwarves I've encountered in PFS play.

that Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment is a doozy of a society mission, it is one of the few scenario's I see Pathfinders run from pretty consistantly.

It is funny though because thats my favorite quality of Dwarves, that inhuman stubbornness.

We are the rocks that not wind or water can whether down.

5/5 5/55/55/5

1) A lot of pfs fights are very mobile, have difficult terrain, or start with the bad guy a fair distance away from you. The 20 feet of movement hurts.

2) Dwarves are defensive. Thats not nearly as sexy as being offensive.

3) Dwarves are good at a number of things but they're not really the best at anything except non channeling clerics. They don't have a +str. for martials, they can't ride medium mounts in pfs, no int bonus for wizards. I suppose they make great druids but there the role play disparity is a bit much for some

Paizo Employee Developer

There's a prominent dwarf in one of this month's scenarios as well, but I don't want to spoil which one it is. It'll be out a week from today, though, so you can check them both out then!

Grand Lodge 4/5

Mark Moreland wrote:
There's a prominent dwarf in one of this month's scenarios as well, but I don't want to spoil which one it is. It'll be out a week from today, though, so you can check them both out then!

Now Mark..that is downright mean to tease like that.. shame!

The Exchange 3/5

Mark Moreland wrote:
There's a prominent dwarf in one of this month's scenarios as well, but I don't want to spoil which one it is. It'll be out a week from today, though, so you can check them both out then!

No idea how happy that makes me, its good to hear. I'll definitely have to pick it up when its out.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Thomas Graham wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
There's a prominent dwarf in one of this month's scenarios as well, but I don't want to spoil which one it is. It'll be out a week from today, though, so you can check them both out then!
Now Mark..that is downright mean to tease like that.. shame!

If you think that is mean, wait until I tell you Season 5 is going to have some awesome dwarf stuff in it ;-)

And Codanous, I have an 11.1 dwarf fighter that would love to go adventure with you.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Thomas Graham wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
There's a prominent dwarf in one of this month's scenarios as well, but I don't want to spoil which one it is. It'll be out a week from today, though, so you can check them both out then!
Now Mark..that is downright mean to tease like that.. shame!

If you think that is mean, wait until I tell you Season 5 is going to have some awesome dwarf stuff in it ;-)

And Codanous, I have an 11.1 dwarf fighter that would love to go adventure with you.

No Mike..that's not mean.. that is outright cruel. Mark was mean you're being cruel.. :D

The Exchange 3/5

Thomas Graham wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Thomas Graham wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
There's a prominent dwarf in one of this month's scenarios as well, but I don't want to spoil which one it is. It'll be out a week from today, though, so you can check them both out then!
Now Mark..that is downright mean to tease like that.. shame!

If you think that is mean, wait until I tell you Season 5 is going to have some awesome dwarf stuff in it ;-)

And Codanous, I have an 11.1 dwarf fighter that would love to go adventure with you.

No Mike..that's not mean.. that is outright cruel. Mark was mean you're being cruel.. :D

I gotta say that is pretty cold! Awesome but frigidly cruel. I'll be chasing this carrot you so kindly dangled in front of me for many months now. Thanks for you jumping in here though!

I really appreciate all this feed back.

My dwarf paladin is revitalized with the knowledge of allies yet to come.

Grand Lodge 3/5

So where does everyone dwarfs hail from?

I have:

7.2 Dwarf Fighter (brawler) from 5Kings
2.2 Dwarf Inquisitor of Cayden from Andoren
2.0 Dwarf Paladin (stonelord) from Osirion (Pahmet)

And I am working on coming up with a bard/fighter from Linnorn Kings


my salads always have a bit o' dwarf in them.

IMHO I always thought the stat mods for Dwarves was Daffy.

I always thought they should have a -2 to dexterity.

They look blocky and clumsy to me.

Id' give them +2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Dex.

Although, if you wanted to play a Dwarf Druid, and the whole dwarf in nature thing is weirding you out, Cave Druid and Menhir Savant make awesome Archetypes for dwarves, there is barely anything "normal" about them when it comes to druids, totally different feel.

Take a domain instead of an animal companion and you have a good basis for a non flower kissing druid.

I always thought it was 'odd' that dwarves made a good monk... stat wise. In 3.5 you saw more half orc and dwarf monks than anything....very odd.

The Exchange 3/5

Rogar Stonehand comes from a long line of tavern keepers and brewers back in Highhelm, the capitol city of the Dwarven Empire. At a young age though Torag called to me most strongly to take up the mantle of defense and join the ranks of Paladins in Golarion. Not satisfied with what Highhelm held for him, Rogar joined the Silver Crusaders and pathfinders to seek high adventure and to gain fame and spread the name of famed Stonehand Gutpunch, a special Dwarven Stout whose recipe has long been held secret by the Stonehand family.

ooc: I use my prestige points to open taverns in different cities, right now there are 3, one in Absalom, Magnimar and Riddleport. He isn't the most righteous or pious Paladin, still held by family duty but he does the best he can to balance the two.

Sovereign Court 2/5 *

Why you want to see more ugly stunties? Stupid stunties.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Well, there are a few dwarves scattered here and there. It's a rare sight though.

It seems most other core races, humans excluded, are not represented very much. Elves? A few, and some, like Nigel Aldain, are assumed to be human. Halflings, bleh... and where are all the orcs? I mean, full-orcs, not half-orcs? Orcs are nearly iconic to play like this and yet I've never really encountered a single one.

And I know there's at least one scenario that sets in the Hold of Belkzen. That better have orcs in it!

3/5

Thread title struck a chord.

Very difficult to accomplish, given all the classes/archetypes, but it seems dwarves don't get played all that much because there are generally better options for your build concept.

I also have found far less than 5% of all PC's I've encountered to be Dwarves. Human > 50%, Elf, Tiefling, Half Orc each about or slightly > 10%, Aasimar, variant races like Nagaji and catfolk or whatever, and halfling each about 2%-5%, half elves and Dwarves last.

Thread title to me suggests rule changes to incentivize moar Dwarves in play, and as writers looking for effective NPC's, in scenarios as well.

So that begs the question, why don't Dwarves get more play? What's their weakness? What are their strengths that either nobody appreciates or which are out-shined by other races which may need to be nerfed? What could be added to them to restore the balance?

Silver Crusade 5/5 ****

There are dwarves out there

Jazz Strongblade - fighter, highest level character that my wife plays - I think 11 now
Morven - level 4 ranger played by my wife

Harsk - build according to the Paizo one - highest level played by my son

Hyjg Drogh - cleric and level 8 - played by me

I would say locally a little above 10% of characters are dwarves.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5

Kelly Youngblood wrote:
There is a dwarf NPC in 'Cyphermage Dilemma'. Roleplaying her is typically my favorite part of the scenario, especially if certain factions are present.

Oh gods, don't remind me...

Being 'seduced' by Mike Brock while the rest of the party looked the other way was hilariously uncomfortable...

Liberty's Edge 4/5

Aye, lad. We stout folk be out there. My charge and I hail from Irisen, a land so cold your beard will crack if you're not careful. Lyanna, my charge, is a Bear Shaman and I am her protector. I be a fierce berserker and have never been bested in battle... Now, I was forced to retreat once, but foul magic was involved. It cannae really be said to be my fault. ;)

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

My dwarven bard, Tassel is level 11, his brothers Thordigar and Thorfin are level 12 and 13 respectively.

I would make another dwarf, but they're my favorite race and I'm trying to broaden my horizons :P

Scarab Sages 5/5

in 9 PCs I run 2 Dwarves - (both clerics with the Travel Domain - so both more 30' or 40' with Longstrider, while in heavy armor).

I have recently played with a Dwarf Barbarian/Rogue, a Dwarf Druid, another Dwarf Cleric.

Perhaps you are just not getting a wide enough sample - though, you know, every game you've played in had a dwarf at the table (you), so you may be shifting the odds...

Silver Crusade 4/5

I've seen plenty of dwarf PCs in PFS play.

In fact, I onced GMed a scenario where an enemy ranger had dwarves as a favored enemy, and both of the party's front liners fighting her were dwarves. One of them hit -10 HP before it was over, if I remember correctly. I think that fight would have been a lot easier if that ranger didn't have that favored enemy.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

I have a female dwarf monk of the empty hand (boar style) and was raised by Orcs so have a nasty overbite.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

Last night, I was adventuring with a rather surly dwarf Gunslinger... and he did seem to be able to get those stumpy fingers through his trigger guard.

However, unlike most dwarves I have met, he threw caution to the wind, and barreled ahead of the rest of the party (stumpy legs or not).

Grand Lodge 4/5

Well my 2nd Gunslinger is a Dwarven Guntank, named 'Boom-stick' McCracken. He walks around smoking smelly cigars and drinking. Uses a Blunderbuss for now..

Some of his lines..

(to the Andoran faction leader): "Howdy Corporal'
"Does yer girl know you're running around wit her hat?"

(to Amara Li)
"NIce party.. dat Plum Wine gets a real kick when ya put some o' dat 'Sack-e' stuff in it."

(About the Paracountess)
"I'd sooner be sober than go back in there.."

Silver Crusade 3/5

Going a little wider I think a lot of it may have to do with the fact that nothing has been done with Dwarves in the wider Golarion lore.

James Jacobs has said that he's not a fan of Dwarves and that may be one reason why not much has been done with them. Human ethnicities are diverse and interesting, Halflings have the whole slave race thing going for them, Forlorn Elves are interesting as are the Snowcasters and Gnomes are just way more interesting than any previous iteration of D&D Gnomes.

But Dwarves? They are the same old gruff, bearded, mountain dwelling curmudgeons they have always been. You could take a standard Golarion Dwarf and put it into Toril or Krynn or even Warhammer's Old World without really changing anything.

However recent depictions of Dwarves have rejected the traditional Dwarven paradigm. The Hobbit gave us some variety whilst also keeping the distinctive basics of the race. The Dragon Age series has also had Dwarves who were distinct from "standard" Dwarves.

That said I think Dwarves will get a push when Paizo does an AP on them which will probably happen eventually. They deserve some love and I hope they get it.

3/5

FallofCamelot wrote:

Going a little wider I think a lot of it may have to do with the fact that nothing has been done with Dwarves in the wider Golarion lore.

James Jacobs has said that he's not a fan of Dwarves and that may be one reason why not much has been done with them. Human ethnicities are diverse and interesting, Halflings have the whole slave race thing going for them, Forlorn Elves are interesting as are the Snowcasters and Gnomes are just way more interesting than any previous iteration of D&D Gnomes.

But Dwarves? They are the same old gruff, bearded, mountain dwelling curmudgeons they have always been. You could take a standard Golarion Dwarf and put it into Toril or Krynn or even Warhammer's Old World without really changing anything.

However recent depictions of Dwarves have rejected the traditional Dwarven paradigm. The Hobbit gave us some variety whilst also keeping the distinctive basics of the race. The Dragon Age series has also had Dwarves who were distinct from "standard" Dwarves.

That said I think Dwarves will get a push when Paizo does an AP on them which will probably happen eventually. They deserve some love and I hope they get it.

this is the kind of good response I was hoping to see here, eventually. yes, anecdotal evidence from people who play dwarves is nice to hear, and a few people who've said in their PFS communities dwarves are quite common, but there's other anecdotal evidence which suggests the exact opposite, and it's impossible to know the truth unless somebody does a query of the PFS character database and can say for sure thet x% of players are dwarves. Or somehow sift through all the scenarios, AP's, and mods and say y% of NPC's are dwarves.

Knowing that Mr Jacobs doesn't like dwarves is a good substitute for the hard data, assuming that's an accurate quote.

Maybe we also need a scenario arc which delves deep underground, giving Dwarves an opportunity to shine as both players and NPC's. Or to incorporate more of the undergound into surface affairs in general.

2/5 *

I love to hate Dwarves. I really liked the Dwarf section of the video game "Dragon's Age".

PFS could definitely do with more Dwarves or a scenario based around the. They're very iconic. I'm not sure this is in the cards though, it will depend on which location is selected for PFS in seasons 5-6, and whether or not scenarios will be in those locations only.

I also don't think Dwarves will be featured in any APs anytime soon. It seems that fans want APs set in non-dwarf locations, and I've never seen a fan request the Five Kings Mountains.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Jason S wrote:
I also don't think Dwarves will be featured in any APs anytime soon. It seems that fans want APs set in non-dwarf locations, and I've never seen a fan request the Five Kings Mountains.

Which leads to the question are Dwarves unpopular because nothing has been done with them or has nothing been done with them because they are unpopular?

Chicken and egg maybe?

The Exchange 3/5

I've been super appreciative of all the responses this thread has seen. I've learned about the Society and dwarves and some of the background of it all.

I think the conundrum of the Dwarf is an interesting one, the higher ups have hinted at some dwarven love-sounds like a bad song-in the coming scenario's and season. I would like to see more with the Sky fortresses. The dwarves do a have a rich history in Golarion but for the most part they haven't been expanded upon in anyway. Like FallofCamelot pointed out, Dwarves will be Dwarves in any campaign. That could be because Dwarves are like the mountains and stone, unwavering and unchanging, yielding only to time.

I don't mind giving the guys more time to bring out something earth shattering for us.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Agreed I would love to see some Dwarf centered stuff.

Liberty's Edge

Our local has a couple dwarf clerics, a monk, an inquisitor, and one wierd dude trying to make a go of a deep earth sorcerer. We've alot more humans and tieflings than anything else.

Silver Crusade 4/5

My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine wrote:
Our local has a couple dwarf clerics, a monk, an inquisitor, and one wierd dude trying to make a go of a deep earth sorcerer. We've alot more humans and tieflings than anything else.

You mean I'm not the only one in the world with a deep earth sorcerer PC? Mine is a gnome, though. He's just more comfortable underground than most gnomes.

Shadow Lodge 1/5

Down here in San Antonio, we have lots of dwarves.

Grand Lodge 1/5

I'm a dwarf bard. I lobbied for a Nine Kingdoms faction but no one really thought much of it.

I love dwarf adventures. Who else makes the best of the best archaeological dungeon crawls?

The Exchange 3/5

Elaric wrote:

I'm a dwarf bard. I lobbied for a Nine Kingdoms faction but no one really thought much of it.

I love dwarf adventures. Who else makes the best of the best archaeological dungeon crawls?

That'd be a joy, I think I would settle for one of the venture captains or a leader of a faction just being a Dwarf.

Grand Lodge 4/5

My 9.2 level Dwarf Ranger is from Galt(but not originally, let's just say from parts beyond...)

My 3.0 Dwarf cleric of Torag is from Jandefhoff.

Nathan Meyers
NYC PFS GM/Player

The Exchange 4/5

Mining, Duh.

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