Why Are You Not A Millionaire?


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I'm not old enough to drive yet, so that's problem 1...


Orfamay Quest wrote:
KestrelZ wrote:
You have to bet big to win big. This means that working for a wage will mean that a worker will be sure of a paycheck, yet will only net a million after a lifetime of work.

I'm fairly certain that this isn't true.

Here are some numbers:
* According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average computer and information system manager earns $125,660 per year.
* The average lawyer makes $130,490 per year.
* Orthodontists take home $204,670.
* Pediatricians [make] $156,000 a year, the lowest among physicians.
* Critical care physicians average $240,000 a year.

It's fairly easy to net a million in less than fifteen years with that kind of income. Of course, you need to be willing to actually save money -- but when the average household income in the US is about $40,000/year, you can live the same lifestyle as the vast majority of people in your city and still bank at least $50,000 per year.

Sure, quite possible, if you're in the top 5% of incomes.

I suspect the percentage in those income brackets who don't become millionaires, assuming they maintain those incomes for most of their career, is fairly small.
But that's still an elite minority. The other 95% of us have a slightly harder time.
Access to the income is a much larger factor than the willingness to save.


thejeff wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
KestrelZ wrote:
You have to bet big to win big. This means that working for a wage will mean that a worker will be sure of a paycheck, yet will only net a million after a lifetime of work.

I'm fairly certain that this isn't true.

Here are some numbers:
* According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average computer and information system manager earns $125,660 per year.
* The average lawyer makes $130,490 per year.
* Orthodontists take home $204,670.
* Pediatricians [make] $156,000 a year, the lowest among physicians.
* Critical care physicians average $240,000 a year.

It's fairly easy to net a million in less than fifteen years with that kind of income. Of course, you need to be willing to actually save money -- but when the average household income in the US is about $40,000/year, you can live the same lifestyle as the vast majority of people in your city and still bank at least $50,000 per year.

Sure, quite possible, if you're in the top 5% of incomes.

I suspect the percentage in those income brackets who don't become millionaires, assuming they maintain those incomes for most of their career, is fairly small.
But that's still an elite minority.

Minority, yes. I'm not sure how "elite" they are, however, The primary barrier to getting one of those jobs is simply education. It's not like professional sports such as basketball, where you need to have superhuman physical abilities even to get a chance. It's not even like there's a tremendous amount of competition for most of those jobs -- there's a physician shortage in the States, and of course CIS manager is one of the fastest growing jobs in the United States.

Becoming a millionaire in the modern, Western, world is largely a function of planning and a willingness to defer gratification. For example, something like 2/3 of American 18 year olds attend college, but only half of those (one in three) actually graduate with a degree. If you want to become a millionaire, choose your major carefully (note that almost all of the career paths above require a STEM degree).

The average starting salary for petroleum engineers (2013 figures) is above $90,000. Live on half of that -- which isn't unreasonable, half of the United States manages to do that as a family income -- and you should be able to pay off your student debt in a year or so (average student debt is just under $30,000 for graduating seniors). After that, save $50,000 for fifteen years and you're a millionaire.

Millionaire by 40.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
thejeff wrote:


But that's still an elite minority.

Minority, yes. I'm not sure how "elite" they are, however, The primary barrier to getting one of those jobs is simply education. It's not like professional sports basketball, where you need to have superhuman physical abilities even to get a chance. It's not even like there's a tremendous amount of competition for most of those jobs -- there's a physician shortage in the States, and of course CIS manager is one of the fastest growing jobs in the United States.

Minority, yes. I'm not sure how "elite" they are, however, The primary barrier to getting one of those jobs is simply education. It's not like professional sports basketball, where you need to have superhuman physical abilities even to get a chance. It's not even like there's a tremendous amount of competition for most of those jobs -- there's a physician shortage in the States, and of course CIS manager is one of the fastest growing jobs in the United States.

Becoming a millionaire in the modern, Western, world is largely a function of planning and a willingness to defer gratification. For example, something like 2/3 of American 18 year olds attend college, but only half of those (one in three) actually graduate with a degree. If you want to become a millionaire, choose your major carefully (note that almost all of the career paths above require a STEM degree).

The average starting salary for petroleum engineers (2013 figures) is above $90,000. Live on half of that -- which isn't unreasonable, half of the United States manages to do that as a family income -- and you should be able to pay off your student debt in a year or so (average student debt is just under $30,000 for graduating seniors). After that, save $50,000 for fifteen years and you're a millionaire.

Millionaire by 40.

It's not that simple. If nothing else, while in theory anyone can do it, there's still a limited number of jobs in all those high paying fields*. There were something like 30K petroleum engineer jobs and I wouldn't be surprised if that number (and the salaries) are dropping with the oil prices. Even for the CIS manager, for each of those spots, there's a whole department of lower paid techs to manage, not to mention all the workers in the rest of the company they support.

Even if everyone had the planning, the drive and the opportunities to get the education for one of those top earner fields, that's not an economy that can be supported. Those wages would plummet and most of the graduates would be working in other fields.

*With the possible exception of lawyers. Near as I can tell, having more lawyers increases the demand for lawyers.


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thejeff wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
thejeff wrote:


But that's still an elite minority.

Minority, yes. I'm not sure how "elite" they are, however, The primary barrier to getting one of those jobs is simply education. It's not like professional sports basketball, where you need to have superhuman physical abilities even to get a chance. It's not even like there's a tremendous amount of competition for most of those jobs -- there's a physician shortage in the States, and of course CIS manager is one of the fastest growing jobs in the United States.

Minority, yes. I'm not sure how "elite" they are, however, The primary barrier to getting one of those jobs is simply education. It's not like professional sports basketball, where you need to have superhuman physical abilities even to get a chance. It's not even like there's a tremendous amount of competition for most of those jobs -- there's a physician shortage in the States, and of course CIS manager is one of the fastest growing jobs in the United States.

Becoming a millionaire in the modern, Western, world is largely a function of planning and a willingness to defer gratification. For example, something like 2/3 of American 18 year olds attend college, but only half of those (one in three) actually graduate with a degree. If you want to become a millionaire, choose your major carefully (note that almost all of the career paths above require a STEM degree).

The average starting salary for petroleum engineers (2013 figures) is above $90,000. Live on half of that -- which isn't unreasonable, half of the United States manages to do that as a family income -- and you should be able to pay off your student debt in a year or so (average student debt is just under $30,000 for graduating seniors). After that, save $50,000 for fifteen years and you're a millionaire.

Millionaire by 40.

It's not that simple.

Actually, it is that simple. There's a difference between "anyone can do it" (which I claim, and stand by) and "everyone can do it (at the same time)," which you correctly point out may not be possible.

Basically, becoming a millionaire is a question of choices. If any (or almost any) specific person actually chooses to beome a millionaire, they can do it. But, of course, by "actively chooses," I mean "makes the choice and also follows through with the choice." In this regard, it's not that different from losing weight or getting a black belt in karate -- it's a long-term (often multi-year) process that involves daily choices to defer gratification. Do I want to go to the gym today? Or do I want to stay here and eat a box of doughnuts?

Most people will not consistently choose the gym. Most people will, in fact, not choose the gym often enough to lose weight (or practice enough to get their black belt). The people who run gyms know this, and in fact rely on this for their budget -- they sell long-term memberships to people in January knowing that by February, most of the new members will have stopped coming but are still on the hook for the six-month introductory contract. ["Money for nothing and your chicks for free."]

A lot of people on this thread, including the person I originally responded to upthread, have made it sound like becoming a millionaire is a freakish happenstance that requires taking a huge amount of risk, or requires that you be on the winning side of a rigged game (e.g. inheriting wealth from your family). It's not. It's only marginally harder to become a millionaire than it is to become a black belt. It just takes planning and the ability to defer gratification.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Why am I not a millionaire?

1. Lazy
2. Bad at math, largely as a result of reason #1
3. Majored in a liberal arts field (see 1 and 2, mostly 2)

And the big one?

4. Don't particularly want to be.


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I am a millionaire.

In Yen


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:


5) don't know how to program (working on this)

hmm... ?


Because of those damn kids, and their f~++ing dog.


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I dunno man, I just don't have a head for business anymore.


Y'dersius wrote:
I dunno man, I just don't have a head for business anymore.

I wonder if it doesn't matter.


Grand Magus wrote:
Y'dersius wrote:
I dunno man, I just don't have a head for business anymore.

I wonder if it doesn't matter.

Yes? No? Maybe? Ah!, i don't know anything anymore!


Grand wrote:
Did you see the movie "The Big Short"?

nope.


the economy


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Empathy.


captain yesterday wrote:
Empathy.

Good point.

Reminds me of a former neighbor that died this past spring. He was fairly obsessed with money his whole life. Mostly, when he talked about money, it was with mild lamentation of a great deal handed to him that he failed to take advantage of. He had stories for most blue-chip stock and how he could have bought in when the stock was worth a fraction of today's value.

Question:
How much did my former neighbor leave behind when he died in April?

Answer:
All of it.


Who says I'm not a millionaire?!

*clicks on my World of Warcraft bank alts and basks in the golden glow of rich before grumbling about scrubs crashing the auction house economy*


New Years resolution: This is the year to make it happen.

Sovereign Court

Obama or Cosmo... or both


one word Mcdonals


Between holdings value and retirement savings, I am a millionaire give or take a couple thousand.


Quintain wrote:
Between holdings value and retirement savings, I am a millionaire give or take a couple thousand.

Congratulations!


Thanks. I just hit a sweet spot in my finances where I don't have any long term debt (that isn't backed by property). And now all the money that was going out to pay that off is going to retirement. Outlook looks very good.


Do you know what time it is? It's *Boom* time. Record highs.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Holy s&##, this is all an elaborate spam thread to get us to invest in the stock market isn't it. :-)

I'll take ten grand in off shore South Korean gambling dens!


Grand Magus wrote:
List the reasons why you think you are not a millionare?

Oh how shall I list the ways?

I have a switch.
Switch has zelda stuff.
I don't like ramen THAT much.


It. Is. Full. Of. Stars.


I was born on a trillionare estate where millionares would do gardening for us.

... I wish.


Whoa.. I'm getting a new teflon coated surf board to deal with these heavy waves.


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OK. Made it. <total assets> - <total liabilities> = $1,016,526.80.

What do I win?


(The scariest part of that number is that just last year I was over $200,000 short, and all that happened was that I didn't go any further into debt and my home's value increased by that much. Yep. I live in California, where becoming a millionaire is as easy as figuring out how to live in the same house for 20 years.)

EDIT: Or are you defining "millionaire" as liquid assets, in which case I'm still in debt. Darn!


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NobodysHome wrote:

(The scariest part of that number is that just last year I was over $200,000 short, and all that happened was that I didn't go any further into debt and my home's value increased by that much. Yep. I live in California, where becoming a millionaire is as easy as figuring out how to live in the same house for 20 years.)

EDIT: Or are you defining "millionaire" as liquid assets, in which case I'm still in debt. Darn!

Nah, with inflation it only really counts if your income is a million a year.


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I have 20,000 favorite'd by others, so really I blame everyone here for not being a millionaire.

Thanks a lot guys! Instead of being shallow and stressed out all the time I'm happy and well adjusted.

You should be ashamed of yourselves!


thejeff wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

(The scariest part of that number is that just last year I was over $200,000 short, and all that happened was that I didn't go any further into debt and my home's value increased by that much. Yep. I live in California, where becoming a millionaire is as easy as figuring out how to live in the same house for 20 years.)

EDIT: Or are you defining "millionaire" as liquid assets, in which case I'm still in debt. Darn!

Nah, with inflation it only really counts if your [b]income[/i] is a million a year.

Oooh! Oooh! ...Pulls out calculator...

OK... I'll post again in ...click, click, click... roughly 50 years at my current raise rate...


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary wrote:
millionaire (n.): A person whose wealth is estimated at a million or more (as of dollars or pounds)

My net worth is a little north of $1M, so I guess that I am a millionaire...

Never thought I'd be able to say that!


Haladir wrote:
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary wrote:
millionaire (n.): A person whose wealth is estimated at a million or more (as of dollars or pounds)

My net worth is a little north of $1M, so I guess that I am a millionaire...

Never thought I'd be able to say that!

Yeah, once you're over 50 and you own a house and a retirement account of some sort, it's not hard.

Trouble is, the bills keep coming in, and neither the house or the retirement account are willing to pay them! Lazy good-for-nothings!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Yeah. I'm not over 50 yet, but it's approaching rapidly!

Well over 90% of my assets are decidedly non-liquid.

I also happen to be debt-free at the moment, although my kid is about to start at a private liberal arts college, so that's probably going to change soon!


Haladir wrote:

Yeah. I'm not over 50 yet, but it's approaching rapidly!

Well over 90% of my assets are decidedly non-liquid.

I also happen to be debt-free at the moment, although my kid is about to start at a private liberal arts college, so that's probably going to change soon!

Wait a minute! I thought you were one of the few people on the boards older than me! Did you get a time machine? I want one!!!


thejeff wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

(The scariest part of that number is that just last year I was over $200,000 short, and all that happened was that I didn't go any further into debt and my home's value increased by that much. Yep. I live in California, where becoming a millionaire is as easy as figuring out how to live in the same house for 20 years.)

EDIT: Or are you defining "millionaire" as liquid assets, in which case I'm still in debt. Darn!

Nah, with inflation it only really counts if your income is a million a year.

Here is an intriguing news blurb: ... the bull market in U.S. stocks on Aug. 22 will become the longest in history, and optimistic investors argue it has miles to go before it rests.

But you have to sell to make gains real supposedly.


high G wrote:
thejeff wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

(The scariest part of that number is that just last year I was over $200,000 short, and all that happened was that I didn't go any further into debt and my home's value increased by that much. Yep. I live in California, where becoming a millionaire is as easy as figuring out how to live in the same house for 20 years.)

EDIT: Or are you defining "millionaire" as liquid assets, in which case I'm still in debt. Darn!

Nah, with inflation it only really counts if your income is a million a year.

Here is an intriguing news blurb: ... the bull market in U.S. stocks on Aug. 22 will become the longest in history, and optimistic investors argue it has miles to go before it rests.

But you have to sell to make gains real supposedly.

Optimistic investors always think that. :)

And you do have to sell to lock in your gains. Otherwise they vanish when the market crashes.
When enough of the big money investors decide to do that at once, the market will crash, the dumb money will be left holding the bag and the smart money will buy in again near the bottom.
OTOH, you only lock in your losses if you sell when it's crashed too. :)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
NobodysHome wrote:
Haladir wrote:

Yeah. I'm not over 50 yet, but it's approaching rapidly!

Well over 90% of my assets are decidedly non-liquid.

I also happen to be debt-free at the moment, although my kid is about to start at a private liberal arts college, so that's probably going to change soon!

Wait a minute! I thought you were one of the few people on the boards older than me! Did you get a time machine? I want one!!!

If it's any consolation... I am over 50 now.


Happy birthday!


Today, it's because of the Fed.


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I still don't have the Infinity Gauntlet and the Infinity Stones. I get those, trust me, being rich will be easy.


Ethics primarily.


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Grand Magus wrote:
Today, it's because of the Fed.

No, you're blaming the wrong person. Look to the White House for someone to blame.


I’m an artist, g!&$&~n it. I don’t need your filthy millions. It’s all about the tables.

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