Constitution Ability Score Increase. Extra Hit Points for all previous levels too?


Rules Questions


So our fighter character just leveled up to level 4 and got his first ability score increase, which he used on Constitution. This gives him and extra hit point per level. Does he get to recoup an extra hit point from each previous level too, or just from here on out?

Dukan

Liberty's Edge

You get all the previous levels also.

Grand Lodge

It makes sense until you compare it to Intelligence and skill points.


You get it for all previous levels too. The same applies to skill points if you raise your intelligence.


What Martin said also applies to skill points from an increased Int, in case the situation comes up.

Edit: Ninja'd so thoroughly I'm going to go commit seppuku now.


Just like a Strength increase applies to all your previous attacks and damages. So all the bad guys you killed before have died that much sooner.

Ha!

Grand Lodge

Jeraa wrote:
You get it for all previous levels too. The same applies to skill points if you raise your intelligence.

...Wait, it does? I was being silly! Where does it say that?

Con specifically says If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly. Int has no such text that I'm seeing.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
CRB Glossary wrote:

Ability Score Bonuses

Some spells and abilities increase your ability scores. Ability score increases with a duration of 1 day or less give only temporary bonuses. For every two points of increase to a single ability, apply a +1 bonus to the skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.

Strength: Temporary increases to your Strength score give you a bonus on Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength). The bonus also applies to your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Small or larger) and to your Combat Maneuver Defense.

Dexterity: Temporary increases to your Dexterity score give you a bonus on Dexterity-based skill checks, ranged attack rolls, initiative checks, and Reflex saving throws. The bonus also applies to your Armor Class, your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Tiny or smaller), and your Combat Maneuver Defense.

Constitution: Temporary increases to your Constitution score give you a bonus on your Fortitude saving throws. In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this bonus and add that amount to your current and total hit points. When the bonus ends, remove this total from your current and total hit points.

Intelligence: Temporary increases to your Intelligence score give you a bonus on Intelligence-based skill checks. This bonus also applies to any spell DCs based on Intelligence.

Wisdom: Temporary increases to your Wisdom score give you a bonus on Wisdom-based skill checks and Will saving throws. This bonus also applies to any spell DCs based on Wisdom.

Charisma: Temporary increases to your Charisma score give you a bonus on Charisma-based skill checks. This bonus also applies to any spell DCs based on Charisma and the DC to resist your channeled energy.

Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.


It does NOT work for INT. Intelligence increases are only applied from the time the INT modifier actually goes up and on.


Wyrmholez wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
You get it for all previous levels too. The same applies to skill points if you raise your intelligence.

...Wait, it does? I was being silly! Where does it say that?

Con specifically says If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly. Int has no such text that I'm seeing.

Quote from James Jacobs

James Jacobs wrote:
"All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up."

Link to quote


@JustKhaos: That was the 3.5 version. Pathfinder changed that.


PF changed the specific exception that 3.5 had for retroactive Int increases and skill point increases. You won't find that exception any more.

Grand Lodge

Firengineer wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
"All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up."
Link to quote

Mind Blown! Is this written somewhere in the CRB?


Wow im glad to know, i knew about the Con thing, but wasnt certain if raised INT raised your skillpoints retroactively or not.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Wyrmholez wrote:
Mind Blown! Is this written somewhere in the CRB?

I believe the only place it's explicitly stated in print is in the Conversion Guide.


So, if a wizard casts "bear's endurance" on the party 6th level fighter (giving a +4 to con for an additional +2 con bonus) does the fighter gain 12 hit points while the spell is active?


Yeah I'm definitely riding the "Mind Blown" short bus myself. lol. I guess I spent way too long playing 3.5e.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
So, if a wizard casts "bear's endurance" on the party 6th level fighter (giving a +4 to con for an additional +2 con bonus) does the fighter gain 12 hit points while the spell is active?
Quote:
Temporary increases to your Constitution score give you a bonus on your Fortitude saving throws. In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this bonus and add that amount to your current and total hit points. When the bonus ends, remove this total from your current and total hit points.

Yep.

Liberty's Edge

Adamantine Dragon wrote:
So, if a wizard casts "bear's endurance" on the party 6th level fighter (giving a +4 to con for an additional +2 con bonus) does the fighter gain 12 hit points while the spell is active?

Yes.

CRB, page 555 wrote:


Constitution: Temporary increases to your Constitution score give you a bonus on your Fortitude saving throws. In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this bonus and add that amount to your current and total hit points. When the bonus ends, remove this total from your current and total hit points.

It's no different than a barbarian raging.

EDIT: wow, ninja'd by a lot!


I was 99.9% sure of that, but thought this would be a good place to point it out if anyone didn't realize you could use con-boosting spells as temp hit point boosters.


Wow I was completely unaware of this..juicy.


A major reason it was made retroactive is so that you don't have to worry, when creating (say) a 10th-level character, about whether he took Int at 4th and Con at 8th, or the other way around.

(That sort of issue is also why skill ranks and cross-class skills were revised; no worrying what order the fighter 5/rogue 5 took his levels, or which classes skill points were spent on which skills.)


CON even applied back in 3.5

INT was the only exception on that.

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