PFS and Animal Archives Book...

[RainyDayNinja]

SCPRedMage wrote:

RainyDayNinja wrote:

Actually, I've been running into this issue myself. I'm building a Nature Oracle (who gets a bonded mount), and dipping into 1 level of Cavalier. I think that if I take a level of Oracle first, I'll already have Share Spells, and won't lose it when I take a level of Cavalier. But I'm not sure. Keeping Share Spells for a Cavalier would fix that, but they already get Light Armor Proficiency for their mount to compensate for it.

I don't have a link handy, but I know I've seen an official clarification that animal companion features don't stack; ie, a level 1 Nature Oracle/level 1 Cavalier would have two mounts, one with 6 Int and Share Spells, one with Armor Proficiency (Light) and WITHOUT Share Spells...

Time to go searchin' for the post in question...

If you find that thread, let me know, because that will change how I build the character A LOT. I think I remember the thread you're referring to, but as I remember it, the main debate was whether you could stack mount levels from a Cavalier with a druid's AC, when the AC wasn't of a type that fit the Cavalier's mount choices. I guess I'll have to look for it too...

[Cheapy]

Weird. I have a link that says they do.

Even formatted it on my phone!

[SCPRedMage]

Cheapy wrote:

Weird. I have a link that says they do.

Even formatted it on my phone!

Well, I'll be. I'll admit, I definitely prefer them stacking, but it does raise a question: how do multiple, different animal companions stack?

In this case, the character already has a Nature Oracle bonded mount, which functions identically to a standard animal companion, except that the Int is raised to 6.

Meanwhile, the Cavalier mount wouldn't have Share Spells, but WOULD get Armor Proficiency (Light).

So, either the first one take precedent, and the second one just advances it, or the second modifies the first. If the second DOES modify the first, does it remove features the animal companion already had (Share Spells), or does it just grant the new stuff (armor proficiency)?

Also, the Cavalier gets to ignore his armor check penalty to Ride, when riding his animal companion. If the Oracle Bonded Mount takes precedent (and thus the mount DOESN'T get the armor proficiency), does the Oracle/Cavalier get to ignore his armor check to Ride, since this applies to the character, and not the mount?

Personally, I would read that to mean that levels in a new source of animal companion simply stack with the existing animal companion, meaning the rules of the original class' animal companion applies, not the second. However, I'd also say that the multiclassed Cavalier WOULD get to ignore the armor check to Ride, because, again, that applies to the RIDER, not the animal companion (a feature for the character, not the companion).

This is DEFINITELY something that needs clarification; I'll keep looking to see if such a clarification already exists...

[RainyDayNinja]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Cheapy wrote:

Weird. I have a link that says they do.

Even formatted it on my phone!

Well, I'll be. I'll admit, I definitely prefer them stacking, but it does raise a question: how do multiple, different animal companions stack?

In this case, the character already has a Nature Oracle bonded mount, which functions identically to a standard animal companion, except that the Int is raised to 6.

Meanwhile, the Cavalier mount wouldn't have Share Spells, but WOULD get Armor Proficiency (Light).

So, either the first one take precedent, and the second one just advances it, or the second modifies the first. If the second DOES modify the first, does it remove features the animal companion already had (Share Spells), or does it just grant the new stuff (armor proficiency)?

Also, the Cavalier gets to ignore his armor check penalty to Ride, when riding his animal companion. If the Oracle Bonded Mount takes precedent (and thus the mount DOESN'T get the armor proficiency), does the Oracle/Cavalier get to ignore his armor check to Ride, since this applies to the character, and not the mount?

Personally, I would read that to mean that levels in a new source of animal companion simply stack with the existing animal companion, meaning the rules of the original class' animal companion applies, not the second. However, I'd also say that the multiclassed Cavalier WOULD get to ignore the armor check to Ride, because, again, that applies to the RIDER, not the animal companion (a feature for the character, not the companion).

This is DEFINITELY something that needs clarification; I'll keep looking to see if such a clarification already exists...

I started a thread on just that subject a few days ago. I'll dig it up again and FAQ it.

[Odea]

RainyDayNinja wrote:

SCPRedMage wrote:

RainyDayNinja wrote:

Actually, I've been running into this issue myself. I'm building a Nature Oracle (who gets a bonded mount), and dipping into 1 level of Cavalier. I think that if I take a level of Oracle first, I'll already have Share Spells, and won't lose it when I take a level of Cavalier. But I'm not sure. Keeping Share Spells for a Cavalier would fix that, but they already get Light Armor Proficiency for their mount to compensate for it.

I don't have a link handy, but I know I've seen an official clarification that animal companion features don't stack; ie, a level 1 Nature Oracle/level 1 Cavalier would have two mounts, one with 6 Int and Share Spells, one with Armor Proficiency (Light) and WITHOUT Share Spells...

Time to go searchin' for the post in question...

If you find that thread, let me know, because that will change how I build the character A LOT. I think I remember the thread you're referring to, but as I remember it, the main debate was whether you could stack mount levels from a Cavalier with a druid's AC, when the AC wasn't of a type that fit the Cavalier's mount choices. I guess I'll have to look for it too...

Just beware that even IF abilities stack (and I'm not going to argue that point here), legal companion CHOICES don't stack:

So sayeth the Brock, and so shall it be.

Spoiler:

R.I.P. The Gnome Ranger, you were fun before that thread happened.

[Tony Lindman]

Michael Brock wrote:

cartmanbeck wrote:

The Great Rinaldo! wrote:

Thanks for the fast response, Mike. A followup, as I just realized something:

In the listing for the Mount class feature for a cavalier, it states that a cavalier's mount does not get the "share spells" ability. Two of the archetypes in AA have features that replace share spells but are excellent choices for cavaliers: Racer and Charger. (In fact Charger has a feature that is only usable by cavaliers.) Can we assume that the usual rule that a character cannot take an archetype that replaces a class feature it lacks does not apply to companions, so that a cavalier can make use of these archetypes on his mount?

I would LOVE an official answer to this one. Please, Mike? Pretty please? :-D

Let's please give Patrick some time before I chime in.

I was wondering if you had managed to discuss this internally, and if you've come to a decision? I'd really love to be able to use Racer with my cavalier!

[Andi A.]

Michael Brock wrote:

cartmanbeck wrote:

I would LOVE an official answer to this one. Please, Mike? Pretty please? :-D

Let's please give Patrick some time before I chime in.

I was wondering if the following link is sufficient for a ruling?

Patrick Renie wrote:

The simplest and fairest solution to the charger archetype issue is to remove the last sentence from the charger archetype's mounted challenge ability and replace it with the following: "This ability replaces link."

Reasoning: Finding a mount that is bred to ride into battle clad in armor and bearing a heavily armored rider would no doubt be a dauntless task, and these war horses are likely more obstinate than their less-outfitted counterparts. As such, a cavalier who gains a charger as a mount would need to have ranks in Handle Animal to make the most of such a wild and powerful breed.

The Thread.