Maiden, Mother, Crone (GM Reference)


Reign of Winter

401 to 432 of 432 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>
Dark Archive

Question about the Eon Pit: The AP says that the stairs descent 120 feet into the darkness. To me, that means the pit is 120 feet deep.
If that's the case, how far would one have to walk using the stairs? It'll depend on the length and height of the steps for sure.
How have other people handled this? I'm decently sure most people are just going to have the total distance as 120 ft.
I'm not 100% sure if the party is going to remember they can fly...


So my players ran through this module and with some luck literally beelined to Vsevolod and killed him.

I've been using the milestone levelling system, so this dinged them to lvl 9, and they are now about to find the two keys, as they did not antagonize Jadrenka.

Considering they skipped the entire Mother statue and 90% of the Crone statue, should I push them to explore these if they don't want to do so? Would it be an issue if they just went back the way they came, and just went on to the next book?

Any tips for this situation?

I found it rather disappointing anyways that you can get to the final room with only 5 or so encounters if you happen to take the right path

Shadow Lodge

LordofTurtles wrote:

So my players ran through this module and with some luck literally beelined to Vsevolod and killed him.

I've been using the milestone levelling system, so this dinged them to lvl 9, and they are now about to find the two keys, as they did not antagonize Jadrenka.

Considering they skipped the entire Mother statue and 90% of the Crone statue, should I push them to explore these if they don't want to do so? Would it be an issue if they just went back the way they came, and just went on to the next book?

Any tips for this situation?

I found it rather disappointing anyways that you can get to the final room with only 5 or so encounters if you happen to take the right path

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with letting them leave. If you want to extend the adventure, you can have Caigreal take a more direct role and have Jadrenka ask for the PCs help against her.

Dark Archive

Huh, after a bad year when we didn't play much, my party finally reached the Pit of Eons. Clever use of Enlarge Person on the fighter and Monk/sorcerer to allow them reach, too, and of the earlier claimed Wall of Fire scroll meant they were killing the big enemies fairly efficiently. The Summoner was so sure, he sent his flying eidolon down into the pit early, to see what was down there. It passed the madness roll, but failed the aging one, and left immediately, scared. After winning the fight, they debated a bit, then the Summoner cast Aqueous Orb in the bottom (less than 100+10 ft/level), swept it around till it grabbed the dragon scale, and had it climb the stairs.

I thought it was pretty clever!


I've trying to figure this out for a while, so I hope it's not something obvious I've missed, but...

If Jadrenka violates the term of her Warden-ship, and Caigreal is already dead, what then?
Does the title go to one of the remaining hags?
If they're dead, does the title just sit with Jadrenka until Baba Yaga can come and pick a new one?
Does Jadrenka lose the title and leave Artrosa un-wardened?

Also given how often the AP mentions Jadrenka taking potshots at the PCs if she doesn't like him, I can't figure out why she wouldn't use the Ring to combine regeneration, teleportation and scrying to just whittle Vsevolod down over a couple of days.

Dark Archive

Frezak wrote:

I've trying to figure this out for a while, so I hope it's not something obvious I've missed, but...

If Jadrenka violates the term of her Warden-ship, and Caigreal is already dead, what then?
Does the title go to one of the remaining hags?
If they're dead, does the title just sit with Jadrenka until Baba Yaga can come and pick a new one?
Does Jadrenka lose the title and leave Artrosa un-wardened?

Also given how often the AP mentions Jadrenka taking potshots at the PCs if she doesn't like him, I can't figure out why she wouldn't use the Ring to combine regeneration, teleportation and scrying to just whittle Vsevolod down over a couple of days.

That sounds like a total GM fiat type answer. Does the Mantle of Warden transfer automatically or does Baba Yaga have to transfer it?

If it's the latter, that's simple. If you decide it's the former, I'd go with what you said: Cagriel > One of the other hags > Stay with Jadrenka.

As for not taking Vsevolod out solo, that depends. How long has the Svathurim been there? That guy's got a pretty monstrous CMD, so casting teleport in its threatened range is risky business. And considering it can cross 100ft on a charge, even over the Pit, it might just be too risky to go in 1v2.


I knew my players were going to fail the Animate Dream. It was also the first of the three challenges they encountered. I was also afraid of her Phantasmal Killer, and told myself that I'd only use it if she were provoked or really antagonized.
They answered the riddle immediately, but didn't really understand what they had to do, even when the raven intervened around round 2 with a swift reminder of their task. The druid of the party did try a few Bluff checks, but they were low, low, low. Surprisingly enough, the Inquisitor DID NOT use his Confess ability!!! I had a mirror in the room, which I assumed the players would have smashed immediately...but the rogue of the party decided to turn it and have it face the Animate Dream, which pissed her off enough to cast Phantasmal Killer. He failed, and "died", and this will have some extra in-game consequences (tied to the temple of Mestama in Artrosa). After they killed the Animate Dream, they failed and decided to do the other tasks then come back.

In the end, the goblin Inquisitor/Gunslinger got this strange idea of...sleeping in the bloodied bed. So I decided that I'd give him a vision of Baba Yaga killing her daughter....but first he had to resist a Phantasmal Killer of his own. He had his own nightmare, but he disbelieved the figment of his imagination and saved against the spell, getting what the party needed to complete the challenge.

Scarab Sages

Hi folks, my players just enter Artrosa, by the crone entry. The first encounter is with UNGRIST the pukwudgie. They try diplomatie with him plaiding that they are envoys from Baba Yaga. Why would the prison's guardians would attack Baba Yaga?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Baba Yaga seems to like forcing anyone she feels like into servitude. They may work for her, fear her, maybe respect her power, but I get the impression that a lot of Grandmother's "Employees" don't like their boss.

I even ran a few of them as partially-sympathetic. "I know what it's like being forced to do her dirty work, and it sucks. I'm sorry, but I'm magically compelled to stop you". Led to players trying to find tricky loopholes to bypass guardians without killing them (or sometimes, to using nonlethal, because they really didn't have anything against the people there fighting).

Others will be actively antagonistic, and probably trying to exploit loopholes of their own. Maybe an: "Oh, yes, I am supposed to help people working for Baba Yaga, but I'm also supposed to kill intruders. Since you're trying to save her, I'm going to choose to interpret your presence here as an intrusion and use that as an excuse to stop you and ruin her day".

Others might actually just look threatening, but will actually help if you're honest with them.


Also in Artrosa. Having problems figuring out the triplet vivisectonists.

Are they assumed to be making a constant stream of poison all day given that Concentrate Poison only lasts an hour?

And they have 22 Str, 22 dex, 19 con and 5 Natural AC.
The base CR2 Forlarren has 3 Natural AC, so I assume that the given stats include the Mutagen.
But 22 dex and STR? AND 19 con?
It looks to me like they've had Mutagen applied to ALL three physical stats. Unless I missed something?


A late answer, but monsters with class levels gain +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, -2 to their stats, distributed as the writer sees fit.

So the Brothers Three have those bonuses factored into their stats.

Also, Atrosia's been attacked by frost giants led by a centaur, so it's not that unreasonable to assume that the inhabitants are on alert, with whatever that may entail.


Huh. Did not know that rule was a thing!

One almost-death from the Druid taking a single Bebilith bite, and everyone is concerned about treasure being awfully rare.
It's not an item-heavy party (Alchemist, Druid, Sacred Fist) but nice things would be nice.

There are a few of the adventure-unique items that are around 20K each, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of loot. Even for a party of only 3 people. Though I'll admit that they can't use most items, being casters or weird specific classes.


When exactly are the PCs supposed to rest once entering the hut? Given multiple high level NPCs in Whitethrone with their literal army want them dead and the previous book concluding the adventure explicitly says they should get away, I can't see the PCs doing it during the last book. Problem is this book starts right after the warp and includes combat encounters. Are they supposed to sleep in A1 (and/or library) before doing anything?


Deuzhero, Zorka the Kikimora should be more than happy to set some old mattresses or the equivalent for the players, given they have gained her trust. My players slept in the library and in the attic area.

Shadow Lodge

deuxhero wrote:
When exactly are the PCs supposed to rest once entering the hut? Given multiple high level NPCs in Whitethrone with their literal army want them dead and the previous book concluding the adventure explicitly says they should get away, I can't see the PCs doing it during the last book. Problem is this book starts right after the warp and includes combat encounters. Are they supposed to sleep in A1 (and/or library) before doing anything?

I'd say that they're supposed to rest immediately after teleporting, or soon after. They can also do it after killing Elvanna but before breaking the hut free. Zorka can counsel them if they want to test after breaking the hut free but before teleporting, but if they insist, then you can roll with it, I'm sure.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A questions regarding the beginning of the "Maiden Mother Crone"

The riddle for the Challange of Endurance, What does that actually mean ? And how does it relate to solving the problem

Each night it Visits
Sometimes Horror
Sometimes Wonder
Sometimes prophet
When dawn wakes, It flees

I understand as much that It talks about the animate Dream and Dreams in general but what clues to solving this is related to the Animate Dream and her desires. PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME !!

It's also strange since every other raven riddle has it's explanation but not this one !!

Her desires is Revenge and that the everlasting dream ends, but how this ties together to the strange riddle is totally beyond me, simply I do not understand it at all.

My worries here , without me giving away to much(railroading) How on earth are they supposedly figure this one out..

The encounter in this book is NOT very well explained , there is no examples on questions to this weird "animate dream" yet the encounter is very detailed but then again not.

I also see that there is several GM's that has mentioned this encounter, but not anyone is mentioning the strange ridddle.

How did you other GM's handled this encounter ?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Second Thing I wonder about is the Witch Tree riddle, by itself it's a good riddle but..

How on Earth is it even remotly possible, If as written in the details for the Witch Tree encounter this riddle was placed there by Baba Yaga herself.

In my book, this riddle is "handpicked" for the PC , as it refers to them talking with the black rider, a riddle no one else will be able to solve and furthermore if Baba Yaga already knew this ..Why the hell did she fall for the trap set by Elvanna and Rasputin in the first Place..

Ohh Well

Shadow Lodge

Try:
"I am a bird without body, yet I still fly above the heads of giants.
I am a lock without key, yet I still open to the stench of miasma.
We can only bring you to despair; only desolation awaits you.
What are we?"

The answer to this riddle is available to anyone who uses the hut to travel to Iobaria (and Artrosa), so it could be a general riddle for the Witchtree, and avoids the issue of Baba Yaga knowing about the death and transferrance of the Black Rider.

Shadow Lodge

Junker wrote:

A questions regarding the beginning of the "Maiden Mother Crone"

The riddle for the Challange of Endurance, What does that actually mean ? And how does it relate to solving the problem

Each night it Visits
Sometimes Horror
Sometimes Wonder
Sometimes prophet
When dawn wakes, It flees

I understand as much that It talks about the animate Dream and Dreams in general but what clues to solving this is related to the Animate Dream and her desires. PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME !!

It's also strange since every other raven riddle has it's explanation but not this one !!

Her desires is Revenge and that the everlasting dream ends, but how this ties together to the strange riddle is totally beyond me, simply I do not understand it at all.

My worries here , without me giving away to much(railroading) How on earth are they supposedly figure this one out..

The encounter in this book is NOT very well explained , there is no examples on questions to this weird "animate dream" yet the encounter is very detailed but then again not.

I also see that there is several GM's that has mentioned this encounter, but not anyone is mentioning the strange ridddle.

How did you other GM's handled this encounter ?

The riddle just a round-about way of saying that it's an animated dream. They don't have to tell the raven that it is an animated dream, they just need to get the information from it, something the raven specifically asks for.

I heavily modified section A, so I can't tell you how this room went for my players. You can try looking at the play-by-post games on this forum. Eg this game, or this game.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Serum wrote:
Junker wrote:

A questions regarding the beginning of the "Maiden Mother Crone"

The riddle for the Challange of Endurance, What does that actually mean ? And how does it relate to solving the problem

Each night it Visits
Sometimes Horror
Sometimes Wonder
Sometimes prophet
When dawn wakes, It flees

I understand as much that It talks about the animate Dream and Dreams in general but what clues to solving this is related to the Animate Dream and her desires. PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME !!

It's also strange since every other raven riddle has it's explanation but not this one !!

Her desires is Revenge and that the everlasting dream ends, but how this ties together to the strange riddle is totally beyond me, simply I do not understand it at all.

My worries here , without me giving away to much(railroading) How on earth are they supposedly figure this one out..

The encounter in this book is NOT very well explained , there is no examples on questions to this weird "animate dream" yet the encounter is very detailed but then again not.

I also see that there is several GM's that has mentioned this encounter, but not anyone is mentioning the strange ridddle.

How did you other GM's handled this encounter ?

The riddle just a round-about way of saying that it's an animated dream. They don't have to tell the raven that it is an animated dream, they just need to get the information from it, something the raven specifically asks for.

I heavily modified section A, so I can't tell you how this room went for my players. You can try looking at the play-by-post games on this forum. Eg this game, or this game.

Well, I understand that the answer to the riddle is "Dream"!! What I have problems with is "How the hell is the players going to figure out what to say to this Dream .. First they need to figure out they have to bluff the Dream.. I'm totally Clueless to how this encounter is going to play out, since I barely understand it myself. Ohh Well...Thanks for helping me :)

Shadow Lodge

Junker wrote:
Well, I understand that the answer to the riddle is "Dream"!! What I have problems with is "How the hell is the players going to figure out what to say to this Dream .. First they need...

The riddle isn't important at all. The PCs don't need to provide the answer to Tryva.

The PCs know that they must know the desire of whatever is in the next room. They will likely just ask her to begin with. Once they fail to get any information via Diplomacy, your PCs will have to get creative. Its all in your presentation of Queen Yelizaveta. Perhaps she's annoyed that commoners would dare to ask her questions, perhaps she expresses a desire to talk to her captor instead of the PCs. Anyway, I agree with you that the encounter isn't well explained, and is the basis for me changing the whole section.

Like I said earlier, check out some play-by-posts to see how they handled it.

Shadow Lodge

I just realized that frost giants don't have darkvision, which is awkward in many places throughout Artrosa. Most rooms outside of the Maiden lack light sources, and the frost giants spread throughout the dungeon find themselves in those rooms without noting anywhere that they brought their own. They are blind in the Crone passages, and I had assumed that the rooms themselves are also under a permanent darkness effect unless specified otherwise. The largest example of this is E8, where two frost giants are guarding the entrance to the Eon Pit. They seem to be ... blind?

This leads me back to the PCs. How have you expected the PCs to traverse the Crone given the darkness effect (in the passages, at least)? Did you also assume that the rooms were under the darkness effect, or were the rooms just naturally dark?

Edit from earlier in the thread:

Robert G. McCreary wrote:
Passages means just the hallways; the rooms are naturally dark (unless the description specifically mentions a light source). The Eon Pit is naturally dark, like other chambers within the Crone.

Ah...so I guess the frost giants just need torches, although exploring the Crone will be awful for them.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Here's a question. If a Druid shapeshifts into an Elemental, does the Druid suffer the aging effects of the Ebon Pit? After all, Elementals don't have biology or age.

Shadow Lodge

Tangent101 wrote:
Here's a question. If a Druid shapeshifts into an Elemental, does the Druid suffer the aging effects of the Ebon Pit? After all, Elementals don't have biology or age.

Polymorph effects don't change type or subtype. The druid is essentially just wearing an elemental costume.

That is, yes, the druid still ages.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Serum wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
Here's a question. If a Druid shapeshifts into an Elemental, does the Druid suffer the aging effects of the Ebon Pit? After all, Elementals don't have biology or age.

Polymorph effects don't change type or subtype. The druid is essentially just wearing an elemental costume.

That is, yes, the druid still ages.

So then, does the Druid suffer from the effects of precision damage if a rogue sneak attacks them?

Because this is where it gets iffy.

Shadow Lodge

Tangent101 wrote:
Serum wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
Here's a question. If a Druid shapeshifts into an Elemental, does the Druid suffer the aging effects of the Ebon Pit? After all, Elementals don't have biology or age.

Polymorph effects don't change type or subtype. The druid is essentially just wearing an elemental costume.

That is, yes, the druid still ages.

So then, does the Druid suffer from the effects of precision damage if a rogue sneak attacks them?

Because this is where it gets iffy.

Yes. Again, the immunity from precision damage is a function of the subtype, which Polymorph effects do not grant. See this stack exchange question. The elemental body spells (like all polymorph effects) only grant what they say they grant. It requires elemental body III (druid level 10) before the spell description changes and states that the caster gains immunity to precision damage.

Contrast with the Oracle revelation Energy Body from the Life Mystery, which does explicitly change subtype.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Okay. It's the first time I've had a druid in my group, so shapeshifting hasn't come into it before. Though given that the group would be pushing level 10 when they hit the Eon Pit, that once again raises the question on if an elemental-shaped Druid would age in the pit.

Given the group is likely to roleplay through encounters if possible, they will hopefully learn enough about the Pit ahead of time not to just rush right in. There's other methods of getting the Key - including summoning an Air Elemental to retrieve it.

Shadow Lodge

Tangent101 wrote:
Okay. It's the first time I've had a druid in my group, so shapeshifting hasn't come into it before. Though given that the group would be pushing level 10 when they hit the Eon Pit, that once again raises the question on if an elemental-shaped Druid would age in the pit.

None of the elemental body spells give the ability to prevent the need to eat/drink/sleep, so the caster doesn't get those abilities. Elemental body III and IV explicitly give immunity to precision damage and critical hits. The spells do not change the caster's type or subtype.

Quote:
Given the group is likely to roleplay through encounters if possible, they will hopefully learn enough about the Pit ahead of time not to just rush right in. There's other methods of getting the Key - including summoning an Air Elemental to retrieve it.

Summons that they can communicate with are probably the easiest thing they can do to retrieve it.

Shadow Lodge

I've decided to give the Frost Giants in the Crone the fiendish template. Before Vsevolod secluded himself he sacrificed another centaur to turn the rest of them demonic. This gives the giants the darkvision that gives such an advantage and now they no longer need to rely on torches (and the boosted defenses don't hurt either).

Centaurs are getting a raw deal in this dungeon.


My group just defeated Vsevolod and my dwarven cleric is wondering about Frost Thunder hammer. He wants to know if it's an evil weapon. What do you guys think? It does have infernal runes on it, but does that make it evil?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
KBo wrote:

My group just defeated Vsevolod and my dwarven cleric is wondering about Frost Thunder hammer. He wants to know if it's an evil weapon. What do you guys think? It does have infernal runes on it, but does that make it evil?

Only if it has the Evil descriptor.

Here's an example along similar lines: if someone has infernal heritage because of a Sorcerer Bloodline or being born a Tiefling, are they inherently evil?

No.

Just because something is touched by the infernal and may even gain some power from the infernal does not mean it is inherently evil, as shown by the Tieflings and on Infernal Bloodlines. :)


Tangent101 wrote:
KBo wrote:

My group just defeated Vsevolod and my dwarven cleric is wondering about Frost Thunder hammer. He wants to know if it's an evil weapon. What do you guys think? It does have infernal runes on it, but does that make it evil?

Only if it has the Evil descriptor.

Here's an example along similar lines: if someone has infernal heritage because of a Sorcerer Bloodline or being born a Tiefling, are they inherently evil?

No.

Just because something is touched by the infernal and may even gain some power from the infernal does not mean it is inherently evil, as shown by the Tieflings and on Infernal Bloodlines. :)

Good point! Thanks :)

401 to 432 of 432 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Reign of Winter / Maiden, Mother, Crone (GM Reference) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Reign of Winter