Maiden, Mother, Crone (GM Reference)


Reign of Winter

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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I like these ideas, and I will run with one of them, I guess, if necessary. I still wonder, though, what the author intended.


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There's some great ideas in this forum that expand some of the plot difficulties I'm having been Caigreal, the Warden and Vsevolod.

I think I'm going to imprison the Warden and have her use projected images. Has anyone had any issues with the fact that they meet Caigreal in C5 and then turn the corner in C6 and run into Jadrenka? I have a hard time seeing Jadrenka being foiled by Caigreal deception. Otherwise it'd be a good time to reveal Caigreal as any.

I modified the initial room with the Ettin so that the frescos had a stronger tie to Baba Jaga and why Artrosa is significant. I borrowed from the recent Tomb Raider game, and had the frescos show the following images:

- A queen in the glory of her power
- An old woman travelling, with what looks like three tall figures standing in the distance (Artrosa)
- The Queen transferring water to the older woman
- The old woman is young again rising into the air surrounded by power

The party deduced that this is Baba Jaga's ritual for transferring power from the latest queen to Baba Jaga, but it seems like only part of the ritual.

I've been seeding for a while now that nobody knows who the next queen is going to be. I've kinda modified the background story that every time Baba Jaga produces a new generation of Jadwiga that she mates with a different outsider, in part culling that unique heritage for herself when she drinks down their power. This I'm going to reveal in the Mother where traditionally Baba Jaga in her new form gives birth to the next generation of Witches and casts "Temporal Status" until she is ready.

Then she will proceed to the Croning ritual and enters the Eon Pit basking in her full power. The team has been responding well to learning Baba Jaga's secrets and this seems like a big one. I've considered dropping a big plot twist here as well, as two of my characters have outsider heritage and both of them women and that unknown to them, one of them is the next intended queen and daughter of Baba Jaga's. I think this will make the mother dungeon thematically stronger for my group with some minor tweaking.

Lastly, and I know this post is already way too long. I'm thinking of having the enter image magic for Artrosa to give them more control of the maiden, mother and crone, and if that all three are activated simultaneously they can actually control them.

I set it up so that Vsevolod's army was camping in the crevase preventing the PC's from accessing Artrosa. The party talked the Centaur tribes into rallying together to face them, so that they could enter a weakly defended position. This has worked well. However, with the dragon attacking the army of Centaurs things are not looking good.

If the party activates all three at the same time I'm going to allow them to animate the maiden, mother and crone and attack the army and ice dragon saving the day. I think it'll be an epic cap for this module.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I actually theorize she doesn't "mate" with anyone. Each Queen is in fact a magical entity that Baba Yaga created from her own power. She doesn't use the Queens to remain alive. Instead, she uses her own power to create a new Queen, and then not to be weakened absorbs the life essence of the past Queen and her children.

This would also explain why there's not a teenage proto-Queen running around (I don't count a certain young lady in Book 5 seeing that she's a granddaughter, not a daughter). She just has to make a new queen, which might take just a month or so, and infuses her with knowledge and skill using a small piece of her own essence.


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Dan Howlett wrote:


I've been seeding for a while now that nobody knows who the next queen is going to be. I've kinda modified the background story that every time Baba Jaga produces a new generation of Jadwiga that she mates with a different outsider, in part culling that unique heritage for herself when she drinks down their power. This I'm going to reveal in the Mother where traditionally Baba Jaga in her new form gives birth to the next generation of Witches and casts "Temporal Status" until she is ready.

Then she will proceed to the Croning ritual and enters the Eon Pit basking in her full power. The team has been responding well to learning Baba Jaga's secrets and this seems like a big one. I've considered dropping a big plot twist here as well, as two of my characters have outsider heritage and both of them women and that unknown to them, one of them is the next intended queen and daughter of Baba Jaga's. I think this...

I went a little with the different heritages as well.

In mine the first husband was an elven PC when they met Maiden her in the timey wimey First World and an Ulfen PC crossed her, spurring her to invade the Linnorm Kingdoms and found Irresen to punish his crossing her. All the original Jadwigga can be elven or half elven or through interbreeding human.

The Second generation queen was Morgannan who I had being the daughter of the mythic Winter Wolf Fenris to tie in a little with the Winter Wolf story in second module. True Morgannan Jadwigga are wolfweres and Morganna created RedTooth herself as her vacation home.

Tashanna is the fiend lover whose Jadwigga can be tieflings.

I didn't do out the others but this left room for lots of nonhuman Jadwigga, like the Ulfen character's replacement character, an elven hexcrafter magus Jadwigga.


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I really like that idea. I may have to borrow some of those when I outline the queens a bit better. Two of my PCs are obsessed with learning her secrets. So they'll want those extra details in trying to sleuth it out.

I set it up when they were in White Throne that there were powers plays going on beyond Elevana. Which I outlined in an elaborate encounter in the Opera house of frost hall. They were performing the Saga of Baba Jaga - Act 1: when she first appeared in Golarion, Act 2, when she took down Kostchtchie, and then Act 3, when she established her kingdom and raised the first queen to power. Full Opera house mapped out with encounters. It was with all the jadwiga together that they noticed their differences.

I set it so that the play had a different ending promoting Elvanna propaganda. At the end of the play she destroys the heralds and kills Baba Jaga. These roles were supposed to be some mundane humans to sacrifice on stage but the PC's took their places. It was going to be an epic on stage battle but the party threw everything at the main bad, a Paladin Bard, and she rolled a 2 for initiative. And she died before she got the first note out. Which then descended into chaos and several 10th level witches flying into the air and attacking them. It was a crazy narrow escape. They were being assisted by an Ice Nymph that they met early on in Taldor, who has her own end game, as she looks to take over the thrice tenth kingdom.

My initial thoughts were that Baba Jaga being a Witch wouldn't be opposed to channelling the powers of creation and destruction based on the maiden, mother and crone. So tampering with genealogies would be right up her ally, making a good wine is all about the grapes used.

I was contemplating changing the setting of the next module so that it was more attuned with who the next daughter of Baba Jaga is, angelic or air elemental for my current party. I figure the only way to make it work is to move the setting from a distant planet to the edges of the plane of air. Keep everything else the same with an outpost colony of dragon riding slyphs. And change the dragon and the castle to a space ship of pirates who are mining out the community of the shaman in the second part of the encounter. I've been reading too much of Iron gods. Oh creative liberties. The party has been begging for some Lovecraftian horror as well.


Did anyone use the dream haunting from the night hag? How far do people think she would venture from her room to use this.

It says she is a guardian but that doesn't mean she is confined to the room.

Also would she have any reason to use the soul gem if she kills a pc? Bestiary says these are sold on infernal markets that I assume she doesn't have access to...


She ended up being quite nasty. Inflicted disease on 2 players and almost dropped one if it hadn't been for lots healing.

Group was also fortunate to have a magical cold iron weapon.

She also got hit with a crit that made her bleed which she couldn't heal (also lost ability to speak due to the crit -we use cards )


Does anyone think I need to adapt the final fight for a party of 6 where there are 3 level 9, two level 8 and a level 7 ?

The apl calculator suggests it is still apl 9 but I'm not convinced that the extra 2 pc's for action economy will outstrip the loss in levels .. ?

What do people think ?


It sounds like a rough call. Keep some frost giants in your back pocket if you need them?

Has the party had their abilities scores decimated with all the ability draining bad guys in here?

Is there a healer in the group?

How min/maxed is the party? I had two people play Aasimar who 5 cold resistance, it made the beginning of the campaign a little under whelming. A ranger with a favoured enemy of Fey and a sorcerer with a propensity for fire balls. They tore most things up until they encountered the Ice Trolls inside (CR 4), apparently reach and rend in close quarters left the party shaking in their boots.

Swap in vision of hell and a hold person, a little blindness, three hits to the spell caster with the composite long bow [we all know who throws fireballs] and the party will be dead before you know it!

Lanathar wrote:

Does anyone think I need to adapt the final fight for a party of 6 where there are 3 level 9, two level 8 and a level 7 ?

The apl calculator suggests it is still apl 9 but I'm not convinced that the extra 2 pc's for action economy will outstrip the loss in levels .. ?

What do people think ?

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Lanathar wrote:

Does anyone think I need to adapt the final fight for a party of 6 where there are 3 level 9, two level 8 and a level 7 ?

The apl calculator suggests it is still apl 9 but I'm not convinced that the extra 2 pc's for action economy will outstrip the loss in levels .. ?

What do people think ?

I just ran this encounter tonight! For my group I rebuild Vsevlod as a 10th-level Warpriest with Mythic tiers. (My players are mythic as well, and the five of them just hit level 9). It was a pretty even fight; the players won without too much trouble, but they had to work for it.

One thing my players did was that they knew Vsevlod was in the room before opening the door (due to the frost giants in the previous room shouting a warning to him). So they spent 4-5 rounds buffing themselves before they opened the door, which really upped their power level.

Remember that Vsevlod has lots of buffs he can cast as well -- if your party give him time, he will be prepared when they arrive!

You might also consider summoned monsters as a good way to balance the action economy. Summon Monster IV will be a pushover at their level, but it's another set of actions for the bad guys, and will take a few player-rounds to deal with.


My players are just a few encounters from finishing the second book. This means they will finally have the dancing hut in their possession. When reading under hut controls in its item description it states, "The hut is controlled by cracking a brown chicken egg into a cracked bowl! Which produces a chick that controls the huts actions with a DC 30 umd check".

This raises a question my fellow dm's here. When a character is finally able to make the dc 30 check. How do you explain or narrate what they do with the chick in the bowl?

I'm assuming the house spirit Zorka when eventually made friendly could advise them of the first step (cracking the egg in the bowl) but no further. This also raises the question how to role play her.

I've had a few ideas for each but I thought bouncing ideas off each other could help everyone!

Silver Crusade

Zhangar wrote:

I rebuilt Vsevolod as a warpriest for my game and gave him a couple more levels so he'd keep his 4th level spells. (I also made him mythic, but that's a another thing.)

Vsevolod's oversized warhammer should be hitting for 2d6 anyways; the 1d8 is a statblock error.

But yeah, the warpriest stuff worked pretty well. The party was NOT happy when they knocked out some of his buffs and he started getting them back while continuing to attack.

As for what he's doing - I had him performing a ritual to try to subvert the Eon Pit and Artrosia's power - if not stopped, he'll make a second Worldwound and let Kotshtchie's abyssal armies march forth to conquer Iobaria.

He'll be there as long as it takes, because it's what he's there for.

I also rebuilt Vsevolod as a warpriest (and used the archetype champion of the faith as well to show his god's favor).

I believe his weapon damage is a result of the 'undersized weapon' ability centaurs have, which states, "Although a centaur is Large, its upper torso is the same size as that of a Medium humanoid. As a result, they wield weapons as if they were one size category smaller than their actual size (Medium for most centaurs)", which is also why his attack bonus is two points lower than it should be (-2 because he's considered Medium where the weapon is concerned, which cancels out the weapon's +2 bonus, and the size penalty that he still gets for being Large is canceled out by Weapon Focus).

And I like the reason you gave him for being at the Eon Pit. I may swipe that for use when I run this.


Vsevolod's damage should be a 2d6 because he's actually fighting with an oversized weapon.

A human-sized warhammer deals 1d8. A frost giant sized warhammer, which is one-handed for the frost giant but two handed for a human or a really angry centaur, should deal 2d6.

Vsevolod is definitely suffering the -2 penalty for using an oversized weapon, on top of the -1 for being large, but should still be dealing 2d6 because of the weapon's increased base damage.

There was a similar error in book 1 - Ted Knotten should've been doing 2d6 with his explicitly resizing magic spear rather than 1d8.

In a sense, Vsevolod's fighting with a earthbreaker that has a badly-fitted shaft. And so it's super awkward.

Ha, yeah, giving him smite good would be that much meaner. I was using the revised playtest version of the warpriest when I rebuilt Vsevolod and didn't have the archetype available. Though he wound up hitting so hard that giving him smite would've been incredible overkill.


What is the Warpriest build like?
Do people recommend a rebuild?

I have already been looking at tweaking him because as written he is supposed to stay back and use ranged spells. But all of these require foes to be good or lawful.

I think I have one PC that fits that. There are something like 3 PCs who are CN (I hate CN as people seem to think it means "do whatever you want without being evil")

Regardless I think his current build would dramatically lower the challenge. This is not what I am going for as I have a party of more than 4 PCs so if anything I want the encounter more challenging not less!

Silver Crusade

I also have a group larger than 4, so I had to tweak him to take that into account anyway. Warpriest seemed like the better way to go for me as clerics are extremely rare in the setting that I'm using, which is Clinton Boomer's Pathfinder Marvels: Age of Strange (where my players are basically the second coming of the Avengers) and because of the martial nature of Vsevolod's deity. I wanted him to be like a paladin of Kostchtchie, and the champion of the faith archetype hit that theme for me.

Warpriest gives him ways to up both his damage and armor class as well as heal himself when he needs it, without casting. The only things I'm giving up, besides the higher spell level for not being a cleric, are channel energy, a bonus feat, and the ability to put enhancements on his hammer (Zhangar is using a vanilla warpriest I believe, so he keeps all of that) to gain detect good and smite good (I also get to bypass good aligned damage reduction, but that may or may not be a factor). And the blessings... can't forget those (Strength gets him strength surge, which will be an enhancement bonus to attack rolls, and War nets him war mind for +1 boosts to AC [dodge], attack rolls [insight], +10 movement speed, or saving throws [luck] each round). Lots of options, even with sticking to the tactics prescribed him in the adventure and with the svathurim running interference on his behalf. And he will be hitting harder than the cleric would thanks to sacred weapon (2d6 as opposed to 1d8). It'll be a brutal encounter, but given who Vsevolod worships, that's how it should be.


Surely as an evil Warpriest his Fervour ability cannot be used to heal (even himself) ?

I'm reading the class now and I am not convinced the extra melee ability benefits Vsevolod that much. He loses spell casting but the melee gains do not seem that significant (e.g. his weapon will still deal the same damage and I assume he still gets -2 for it being the wrong size)

Also blessings are weaker than domains as the second ability is only granter at level 10 and not level 8

Silver Crusade

Normally, his fervor can't be used to heal himself. I tossed the phylactery of health and gave my version of Vsevolod a necklace bearing the skull fragments of witches that's enchanted to treat him as undead in regard to negative and positive energy. So in this instance it will. If the players find a way to cleanse the item, I will change it into a magic item they can use, possibly something similar to the doomsday key (instead of taking it off and using a key-turning motion, it'll probably be more along the lines of flashing the "horns" sign [\m/] to get the shaken effect) in addition to the 6,400 XP they would have gotten for the Ratibor side-quest, which I also removed.

Strength Surge is a swift action to use and lasts for 1 minute. That gives him a +4 bonus to his melee attack rolls. Sacred Weapon does damage based on his level, not the base weapon damage. If he were medium, it would be 1d8, but because he is large, he's doing 2d6 instead. With war mind, which lasts for 1 minute as well, he can grant himself different buffs at the beginning of each round of that minute as needed. And since my guy has Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack (due to two bonus feats and swapping out Improved Channel), he'll be using hit and run tactics against the PCs once he actually goes the melee route. He is a centaur, after all.

Now you could say that the centaur's undersized weapons ability would hamper sacred weapon, and if you make that call, you're well within your right to do so. But, I would be inclined to disagree. Calling upon your deity to harm your enemies should trump that. After all, that's the whole point of the ability.

You can get away with using a cleric just fine. I changed the class to better fit the setting I'm using, then tweaked the NPC with that in mind.


Note that sacred weapon only overwrites your weapon's damage if sacred weapon is better. 1st level warpriests of Gorum aren't dealing 1d6 with their greatswords.

Now, I agree sacred weapon for a centaur should still follow the medium-sized weapon progression. Though, as a minor jerk move that just occurred to me, you can take weapon focus (hoof), which would follow large creature progression and jumps the hooves from 1d4 to 2d6 or more =D

But Vsevolod's fighting with an oversized weapon and should be dealing 2d6 with it, regardless. As I mentioned before, the 1d8 in his stat block should be regarded as an error.

When I rebuilt Vsevolod, I also raised him to level 10 to keep his 4th level spells and make him a nastier challenge - I wanted HIM to be the big threat in the fight, not the svathurim.

Basically, leave him a cleric if you want him to remain casting focus; make him a warpriest if you see him as the sort who likes to wade in and get his hands (and elbows and biceps and chest and face) bloody.

Silver Crusade

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I've been rereading posts in this thread and the one thing that gets me is the idea of tying Vsevolod in with Elvanna's plans. The thing is, that as a priest in service to Kostchtchie, such a thing would not be possible. At least not in the sense I'm getting from what I've read (making him an arm of her invasion of Iobaria). It would be a violation of his deity's three tenants, specifically the second one: bow to no woman. So, no, I can't see him working with Elvanna's forces.

But I can see him actively opposing those very forces.

That, I think, is an opportunity that was missed in this adventure to tie it a little more to the first third of the AP. The idea that the Rashalka centaurs are caught in the middle of a war being waged between Vsevolod's tribe and the Irriseni invasion force (Vsevolod sees them as potential allies for the Irriseni, while the invaders, who know nothing of the regional differences of the centaur tribes in Iobaria, would see them as allies of Vsevolod) could have added something to Korak Kaag's interactions with the PCs. Plus, since this adventure in particular is the last one taking place on Golarion, another nod to Elvanna's conquest would have served the adventure well, a reminder that her reach is expanding beyond the conquering of Avistan, which I don't think is made implicitly clear in the beginning. To tell the PCs her goal is one thing. But to tell them that thing and then have them see it unfolding before their very eyes, that could serve as a better means of motivation for the PCs.

Plus it also serves the background aspect of war that's in the AP. We see the beginning of Elvanna's war is seen in the first two adventures (which could have spilled over into this one). There is a war being waged on Triaxus between Drakelands forces and the Skyfire mandate. World War I is being fought on Earth. And then the effort to free Baba Yaga and dealing with Elvanna takes place while the PCs are still on Earth.

A missed opportunity. But it's one that we as DMs don't have to miss out on.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Rob McCreary wrote:
The reason is one of story - it was made by giants, for giants, and Vsevolod, who uses Medium weapons, takes a penalty to wield it. That said, if you really want a PC to be able to use it without penalty, then you can decide that it resizes.

Is there a reason why Vsevolod has Magic Weapon prepared (which is basically useless to him) when his other Domain 1st level spell would seem to be far more in character - Enlarge Person (which would make the war hammer a huge weapon dealing 3d6 I believe and still imposing a penalty)


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Also question about Ratibor - does anyone else envision a possible TPK if he uses his boots to become a Frost Giant (reach + STR boost + power attack + greater cleave = likely nearly full BAB attacks hitting really hard on the entire party or close to it) especially since the party likely is still level 7 possibly level 8 when they fight him.

(on the other hand one slumber hex which he fails even on his clear mind reroll and he is down for the count - my party's witch does tend to break encounters occasionally)


If anything, the Boots are what make Ratibor an actual challenge; he's a pretty trivial opponent if he doesn't use them.

Also, Vsevolod isn't a valid target for enlarge person. He isn't a humanoid.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yeah, I guess Monstrous Humanoids can't be the target of spells like Enlarge person - but personally as a GM I think that's a distinction that is somewhat silly (yes I know it is the rules as intended - but I may just let the spell work on him for my game - consider it his god's fiat)

(and the fact that outsiders can't usually be the target of such spells either is one that many a player of Tieflings, Aasimars or other outsider races
forget both when it would help them and when it would hurt them)

So far my players have just been exploring the hut - and got through nearly all of it in a single session (though the dream was nearly a tpk - and likely would have been had I not used an NPC that I have been having mysteriously following & aiding the party intervene slightly (a nymph whom I have in a form of a bird who has been following the party and inspiring party members in the hope that they will eventually be able to return her to her home - I'll likely include some interaction between her and the nymph in dungeon)


Rycaut wrote:

Yeah, I guess Monstrous Humanoids can't be the target of spells like Enlarge person - but personally as a GM I think that's a distinction that is somewhat silly (yes I know it is the rules as intended - but I may just let the spell work on him for my game - consider it his god's fiat)

(and the fact that outsiders can't usually be the target of such spells either is one that many a player of Tieflings, Aasimars or other outsider races
forget both when it would help them and when it would hurt them)

I houserule in my games that monstrous humanoids and native outsiders are humanoids of subtype monstrous humanoid and subtype native outsider specifically because I want them to interact with spells like enlarge person and hold person. Pathfinder went half way with this by changing giants from their own type to a humanoid subtype, they should have gone all the way IMO. It is silly that bestial half-hyena gnolls are not subtype monstrous humanoid.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What is it with my players? They stroll through what are meant to be tough climactic battles like Vsevolod and his pet (or Logravich back in Whitethrone), but make a complete pig's ear and nearly loose characters in bread & butter encounters like the pukwudgie and his panthers.


Darrell Impey UK wrote:
What is it with my players? They stroll through what are meant to be tough climactic battles like Vsevolod and his pet (or Logravich back in Whitethrone), but make a complete pig's ear and nearly loose characters in bread & butter encounters like the pukwudgie and his panthers.

Pukwudgies are nasty.

PRD wrote:

Poison (Su) Claw or quill—injury; save Fort DC 18; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d3 Con damage; cure 2 consecutive saves. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Quills (Ex) A pukwudgie can fire two of its quills as a ranged attack as a standard action. These quills have a range increment of 40 feet. Any creature attacking a pukwudgie with light or one-handed melee weapons, natural weapons, or an unarmed strike takes 1d3 points of piercing damage. A creature that grapples a pukwudgie takes 2d4 points of piercing damage. Anyone who takes damage from these quills is also exposed to the pukwudgie's poison.

That, plus invisibility and 3d6 sneak attack damage plus a lot of flank buddy undead minions is nothing to sneeze at for an encounter.


My party breezed through most encounters but got worn down by the sheer number of them.

The lurkers-in-light were my "unexpectedly challenging" encounter, almost killing the oracle and severely hurting a number of PCs.

Heh. The inquisitor went through so much trouble to cover up the hole emitting light, and then I noticed that the lurkers have daylight as a SLA.

Silver Crusade

I'm running RoW on Roll20 and was wondering why Jadrenka only has her maiden full body artwork. I own the pawns physically so I figured, hey perhaps the PDF has high definition art I can show to my players. So I purchase the PDF of the pawns I already own and:

I'm disappointed.... and out $10.
http://i.imgur.com/KVN8jYH.png

I don't think I've ever seen the full artwork for her forms other than on the pawns. Will Paizo ever do so? Would be a shame for the art to go to waste..


Let's see, from the module pdf art of the maiden head shot is on page 31, the mother headshot is page 37, the crone headshot is page 50, and the full body maiden artwork is on page 55 and the back cover. That is all of the art of her I'm aware of. I don't own the cards or pawns though.

Silver Crusade

Owning the pawns both physically and digitally, the artwork does exist (see the link) but the pawn artwork is very low resolution. I really wish Paizo released it in some form.


The full body "Maiden" artwork is Jadrenka's natural form - she's been 16 or 17 (to prevent her hag transformation) for a very, very long time though Dear Grandmother's magic. (Another way to put it - Jadrenka's "maiden" form is just plain Jadrenka).

The three portraits are by one artist whose name I'm blanking on, but he does a LOT of the portraits for Paizo. The full body artwork (with blue eyes instead of the cats-eyes all of the portraits have) is by a different artist.

Silver Crusade

http://i.imgur.com/KVN8jYH.png

Full body artwork actually does exist for mother and crone as it's used for the pawns, but not the AP. I'm just looking for the higher resolution version about the same form-factor as the maiden one.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

try a google or bing image search, artists usually post portfolios if it can be found thats your best bet:-)

edit: i did one myself and no luck:(
i suspect you might be out of luck on this one, sorry!

Silver Crusade

Is it possible for a group without a means of quick travel (dimension door and the like) or remote manipulation (telekinesis + arcane eye). To proceed into the eon pit successfully without doing the croning ritual?

The pit is 120 feet deep and the stair case spirals down so likely it may be 5 rounds double moving to get down, and another 5 to get up. 10 rounds of exposure to the econ pit, even with age resistance is still a DC18 will save.

If they do the croning ritual, any misgreivances about the aging process could be negated by Jadrenka by using a scroll of limited wish (not in her gear, but could be added without issue).

Things that boost-stack will and fort save can also work, but that requires a very precise spell selection, and ye-old-magic-shop isn't exactly around the corner.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My lot realised that the construct familiar from the migrus locker in The Hut could walk freely around the Pit without ill effect...


Darrell Impey UK wrote:
My lot realised that the construct familiar from the migrus locker in The Hut could walk freely around the Pit without ill effect...

That's very clever.


So, if a group chooses to do the Croning Ritual (and makes the lore checks to know what to do) can they do it, avoiding the curses at each glyph while still getting the "venerable" at the end to survive the Eon pit, or can only a witch classed character actually perform the ritual?

Edit: Wait so the croning ritual makes you old age, not venerable... so does it not help you with the Eon Pit? I'm confused even more now.


Zhangar wrote:
The full body "Maiden" artwork is Jadrenka's natural form - she's been 16 or 17 (to prevent her hag transformation) for a very, very long time though Dear Grandmother's magic. (Another way to put it - Jadrenka's "maiden" form is just plain Jadrenka).

Um I thought a changeling turning into a hag required a specific ritual performed by her mother? So, if a changeling avoided her mother (or her mother was dead) then she'll never become a hag.


The hag ritual also requires her to be a certain age.
As she can't avoid her mother without leaving Artrosa, Se bargained with Baba Yaga. Most people doesn't want to kill their parents, so she found another way.
Why not just run away from home? I guess she has had a very strange upbringing without much outside influence. It probably seemed less daunting to bargain with Dear Grandmother than to leave the Artrosa that has been your home all life.


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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Zhangar wrote:
The full body "Maiden" artwork is Jadrenka's natural form - she's been 16 or 17 (to prevent her hag transformation) for a very, very long time though Dear Grandmother's magic. (Another way to put it - Jadrenka's "maiden" form is just plain Jadrenka).
Um I thought a changeling turning into a hag required a specific ritual performed by her mother? So, if a changeling avoided her mother (or her mother was dead) then she'll never become a hag.

Correct.

How I ran it was that Jadrenka's mom had already performed the ritual, and Jadrenka would spontaneously transform once she got old enough.

Yet, the book explaining how changelings actually work just happened to be laying around where Jadrenka would find it, and so Jadrenka pledged her services to Dear Grandmother in exchange for a stay.

In my game, Jadrenka had figured out what she needed to do to undo the ritual - but she had to give up being Warden to go do it, and she was terrified she wouldn't pull it off in time. Once Vsevolod was handled and she could talk freely with the party, she asked for the party to help her out with it once they finished their quest.

Amusingly, the party's changeling oracle researched her own solution (being told by the night hag that she was a larval stage hag really pissed her off), and after the end of Book 4 returned to Artrosia to share it with Jadrenka.

Shadow Lodge

One of my group's characters is a changeling. This book is far off yet, but I think I'm going to let Silyzil or Grishelmuk be her mother (given that she took the green widow trait). This is going to be fun!

Dark Archive

I never did get an answer to this...

So, if a group chooses to do the Croning Ritual (and makes the lore checks to know what to do) can they do it, avoiding the curses at each glyph while still getting the "venerable" at the end to survive the Eon pit, or can only a witch classed character actually perform the ritual?


My reading was that you HAD to be a witch to get the benefits of the ritual.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

"A witch who desires to undergo the croning ritual can bypass the glyphs’ negative effects, though undergoing the full ritual transforms her into a crone."
page 49

Dark Archive

Darrell Impey UK wrote:

"A witch who desires to undergo the croning ritual can bypass the glyphs’ negative effects, though undergoing the full ritual transforms her into a crone."

page 49

Right but then what about when you get to the Pit of Eons? If you go through the ritual area, either as a witch or as a non witch and get aged by the traps, are you then immune to the Pit of Eons, or what? Cause as it's worded it seems like even a witch that completed the ritual still isn't immune to the curse, as she's OLD not Venerable.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I've seen nothing to indicate that the ritual in any way helps you resist the Pit. From memory the only thing that does is the scroll of age resistance, which gives you a bonus to the saves against aging (but not the madness).


Blayde MacRonan wrote:
I've been rereading posts in this thread and the one thing that gets me is the idea of tying Vsevolod in with Elvanna's plans. The thing is, that as a priest in service to Kostchtchie, such a thing would not be possible. At least not in the sense I'm getting from what I've read (making him an arm of her invasion of Iobaria). It would be a violation of his deity's three tenants, specifically the second one: bow to no woman. So, no, I can't see him working with Elvanna's forces.

Witchwar Legacy Adventure Module says otherwise. Kostchtchie himself allied with a Queen to fight Baba Yaga.

Dark Archive

Darrell Impey UK wrote:
I've seen nothing to indicate that the ritual in any way helps you resist the Pit. From memory the only thing that does is the scroll of age resistance, which gives you a bonus to the saves against aging (but not the madness).

Okay, yeah although if you triggered all the traps and got to be venerable then you would be immune. Don't know I might houserule it that you only need to be Old to bypass the pit, cause... otherwise that just seems like a TPK...

What are other GMs experiences with the pit? How many characters did you have die in the pit?


I ruled that the witch who went through the Croning was immune to the negative effects of the Pit.

Shadow Lodge

Darrell Impey UK wrote:

Whilst I'm here:

Finished reading everything last night, and something in the Dvezda Marches section caught my attention. (Well, several somethings did actually, but I'll limit it to this for now.)

"Over 3 miles wide in places, the Deeprun Crevasse is a jagged gash torn into the face of the earth." (p72)

Really? 'Cause looking at the scale on that map, it's well over 20 miles across in some locations. Was that meant to have read, "Over 3 miles deep..." do you think? Or something else.

Adam Daigle wrote:
That's an error where I got deep and wide swapped in the text.
Rob McCreary wrote:
ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I just have a quick question.

On page 72 the Artrosa, (maiden mother Crone monoliths) are described as being "the 3 mile tall stone statues carved into the percipitous face of its tallest mesas"

And on page 20 under the assent section "the total distance between the base of a figure and its summit is approximately 1/2 a mile or 2,600 feet."

So how tall are these things? 1 mile or 2,600 feet?

Thanks

The statues are about half a mile tall, so the distances in the ascent section are correct. The 3-mile-tall reference in the gazetteer is a typo.

I'm sorry to bring this up again, but are there two typos in the Deeprun Crevasse section of the gazetteer? From what I understand Adam and Rob are saying, the crevasse is actually over 3 miles deep in places, but specifically around Artrosa, it's around half a mile?

How does one reconcile the fact that Artrosa is visible from much Iobaria if it's built into the eastern edge of the crevasse? Is the eastern edge that much higher than the western edge (and as such is much less than half a mile tall)?

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