The Snows of Summer (GM Reference)


Reign of Winter

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selunatic2397 wrote:
Pendagast wrote:

Our Sorcerer dropped the stag with a crossbow critical in one shot the minute it appeared....

"you see a huge white stag approaching..."

"what's that?"

"it's an elk"

"what's an elk?" (we live in alaska...no elk)

"It's like a caribou"

"OH! I shoot it!" (typical alaskan....lol)

My players had the stag's backstraps harvested before they dealt with the fey!

Gotta have yer priorities straight!

lol the barbarian was rushing the elk to get it harvested when the little bugger jumps up from the elks fur to zap him. The barbarian yells "ewww it's got mites!"

then the fey start in on the barbarian, and everyone else is farther away due to the snow and they are all shouting at him, what are you doing?!

He responds, as he's fighting fey "purifying the dinner!"

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Pendagast wrote:

like getting it WET?

Well, yes. Exactly. That's why I gave the river crossing encounter as an example ;)

Horizon Hunters

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Quote:

This is not an "answer" but just an editorial opinion as a GM, not a writer.

I think this is a very valid approach. The nature of the game is such that certain hazards do become more (but not totally) obsolete as the PCs gain levels. This includes weather hazards.

The lower levels of this AP remind me of the lower levels of Serpent Skull in that the GM has an opportunity to utilize the environment has a challenge and hazard. Eventually the PCs somewhat "outgrow" that challenge through higher level skill ratings, magic, and gear. Nevertheless you have that early opportunity to make a lasting impact with it and alter your players perspectives on the environment.

Its not bad that they eventually overcome the worst of those challenges either! That becomes one of the unspoken and implied ways the players can measure their PCs are becoming more competent and powerful—the side effect of becoming experienced.

Thanks Jim!

I agree of course. I would also say that this is the time where you instill the frigid atmosphere of the ENTIRE AP. Freeze the PCs butts off! Make it memorable! Have someone suffer some frostbite, maybe even lose a finger or two! They won't forget something like that. Of course, I don't plan to screw anyone over, but I certainly don't want the environment to become a complete non-factor too early in the campaign...

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

On another note, do any of you writer-types, or folks that have run the first book already, have suggestions for the doll encounter? I really want to play this up and I'm curious as to any input you guys may have to really make it extra creepy... I see this encounter as another prime opportunity to add a lot of flavor and atmosphere in the first part of the AP. I want to set a definite tone that will hopefully carry through the entire campaign.


Have Thora able to speak without the doll's influence, at least occasionally: a terrified little girl begging the PCs to do something, anything, to make it stop hurting, or at least to go away so she can stop hurting them.


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They already have a barbeque pit big enough for a butchered out dragon!

Dragon BBQ and jerky seem to be their trademarks...any giant crayfish or crabs are also hungrily gobbled up!

Sometimes I wonder if my players are a secret cult of foodies led by the galloping gourmet.

That or Martha Stewart followers...any expensive furniture or odd items seem to be of more interest than the random magic stuff they capture.

Oh well...it's always interesting and we always have fun!


My groups mage has gone into hock with her master's college to get Thora restored to life...

In the Shackled Hut I have no problem with second guessing her response to the children in the clock tower...I KNOW what she will do!

It's nice having a player that dependable...I keep reading about gamers being evil because it seems to be the in thing...

My group is all good and the kind of heroes that the local populace send for in an emergency, and look forwards to seeing show up.

Om the Greta front the groups good aligned wolf shifter has sent me an email saying he's up for "taking one for the team" (He can't game with the group so he games by phone and email, conflicting work shifts...gotta love em)


One of my players is running a pacifist life oracle devoted to sarenrae . I plan on playing up the atrocity of Thora and once we get to Shackled Hut the children in the tower just to see if I can make him break his oath by the sheer outrage at the abomination of what the winter witches allow.


selunatic, have you considered Skype? One of my players for the tabletop group plays via Skype (and a second will play via Skype if she's feeling poorly), and in my Runelords campaign nearly everyone plays via Skype (and the local player who is in both groups will join in with Skype if she is once more feeling poorly). I've found Skype to work quite nicely; I do pay for it so I can do group conference calls, but you should be able to do a video conference call for one person without paying extra I'd think (or at least not much extra if you do need to pay).


My absent player is actually at work during the time the rest of us have off for gaming...Actually we probably could swing skype but his employer would not approve.

It's not that much of a problem as his schedule seems to change at the drop of a hat...he works at a paper mill. In a few weeks he'll be back with us on Fridays yet again!

*gets a mental picture of his player 50 feet off the ground on a scaffold, a laptop propped on his tool box as he rolls dice and still manages to rewire an electric device of fiendish complexity...*

Thanks for the suggestion though...if he ends up having to move to the coast I will definitely set up a skype.

*goes off to bed dreaming of tormenting his Friday gamers with Rasputin riding a tank dual wielding machineguns*


How are the PCs supposed to be able to fight Hommelstaub near the winter portal? The snow is supposed to make it so they can't see anything past five feet and offer concealment even there, and you have an enemy that can fly 50 ft per round and can see through the snow. How are they supposed to deal with that?


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If they're smart? Retreat. They'll be followed.

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Keolin Portara wrote:
How are the PCs supposed to be able to fight Hommelstaub near the winter portal? The snow is supposed to make it so they can't see anything past five feet and offer concealment even there, and you have an enemy that can fly 50 ft per round and can see through the snow. How are they supposed to deal with that?

I like this answer!

Rob McCreary wrote:

Yes. See the "Traveling Conditions" section on page 10. No one said going to stop an magical winter from taking over the globe would be easy! :)

That said, you could certainly rule that the snow stops for certain important encounters, if you feel it would hinder the PCs too much.

Also, I'm not sure who (whether it was Neil, or Rob, or some other Paizo voice), but it was suggested/explained (earlier in this thread I believe) that in the immediate area around the portal the weather is not as detrimental to movement/vision.


Keolin Portara wrote:
How are the PCs supposed to be able to fight Hommelstaub near the winter portal? The snow is supposed to make it so they can't see anything past five feet and offer concealment even there, and you have an enemy that can fly 50 ft per round and can see through the snow. How are they supposed to deal with that?

GM: "You think you can just barely make out a hut fifteen feet in front of you."

Try to stifle your giggles. The players know you're scheming when you do that. ;)

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Ansel Krulwich wrote:
Keolin Portara wrote:
How are the PCs supposed to be able to fight Hommelstaub near the winter portal? The snow is supposed to make it so they can't see anything past five feet and offer concealment even there, and you have an enemy that can fly 50 ft per round and can see through the snow. How are they supposed to deal with that?

GM: "You think you can just barely make out a hut fifteen feet in front of you."

Try to stifle your giggles. The players know you're scheming when you do that. ;)

So much Epic YES!!!

I swear, I'm gong to freeze my PCs to death before they have a chance... I can't wait!!!


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amusingly, I under estimated my PCs. I had Hommelstaub perched on the entry to one of the nearby igloos taunting them and carrying on about their doom, and how he was the harbinger of it, blah blah blah....

The Witch made a good Perception roll for hearing and used her frostfoot hex and walked right up on him (I didnt think the PCs could get that far in the snow, because I forgot about her hex ability... she's a winter witch.)
She clawed him pretty good, at which point the Houndmaster Cavaliers dogs got loosed and smelled blood, they pounced on him and played tug o war with him like a rag doll.

Hommelstaub didnt have a chance, was all over in 6 seconds.


Anyone else have their PCs utterly fail in the encounter with Pym, Shor, and Vosi? On round one, I had 2 PCs plucked with arrows, and on round 2, all but the summoner's eidolon failed Will saves for color spray, leaving the entire party unconscious (and banishing the Eidolon as a result). I opted to have the sprites take the opportunity to flee and report back to Izoze.


I'm getting ready to run this once my player's schedules align (ANY WEEK NOW WE'RE SURE) and...

in case they're watching NO PEEKING:
I don't plan on using color spray at all in the Pym, Shor, and Vosi fight. It's too early to go knocking out the entire party and I don't want to let on about that ability until the party gets to Rohkar's closet.


Ansel Krulwich wrote:

I'm getting ready to run this once my player's schedules align (ANY WEEK NOW WE'RE SURE) and...

** spoiler omitted **

That sounds like an excellent plan, plus it saves a "wonderful" surprise for later. My original plan was to try to shut down the summoner's Eidolon, since the plan has mostly been to sit back and let him hit enemies until they're dead. Unfortunately, three of the five rolls were nat 1's on Will saves. Given the dice turning on them, I decided it best to just have the sprites move on and report them, rather than penalize them further.

Hopefully, they also learned a valuable lesson about standing huddled together (which they have been doing frequently). Honestly, I hope I'm not being too hard on a group that features a few relatively inexperienced players. I want to challenge them without causing a TPK. :/


I am planning on running this tomorrow but have a couple of questions.

1. I assume snow and heavy snow counts as difficult terrain for the purpose of restricting 5 foot steps?

2. I was confused by the ice bridge. Description says gorge is 50ft below but when you fall it is only 10? Have I missed something obvious?

3. Has there been a ruling on whether cold weather gear makes a character count as protected against the cold

Thanks for your help


1) Yes
2) The creek is 10 feet deep. Thus you fall 50 feet into 10 feet of freezing water, and take 1d6 lethal and 2d3 non-lethal damage.
3) I think the general consensus is Yes. But really, it's up to you as GM.

Horizon Hunters

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I feel like this is a dumb question but I can't seem to find any definition for "arctic" (as in Tatzlwyrm, Giant Weasel, etc). Do these creatures get any resistance to cold or are they just inherently able to overcome the elements and nothing more? If hit with a spell that has the cold descriptor, do they take normal damage, half, resistance? There is no cold subtype or winter-touched effects pertinent to them... so it would seem they get no real "protection". I would think they would get some resistance though..


closetgamer wrote:
I feel like this is a dumb question but I can't seem to find any definition for "arctic" (as in Tatzlwyrm, Giant Weasel, etc). Do these creatures get any resistance to cold or are they just inherently able to overcome the elements and nothing more? If hit with a spell that has the cold descriptor, do they take normal damage, half, resistance? There is no cold subtype or winter-touched effects pertinent to them... so it would seem they get no real "protection". I would think they would get some resistance though..

The books don't have a definition per se, or at least not one that I can find. I read it as these types of creatures have just adapted to that environment. As an example the tatzlwyrm traded its forest stealth bonus for a snow one. They are still affected by cold damage. I've always though of cold damage implying absolute cold, a temperature that is severe enough to cause instant and penetrating frostbite. So as an example just because you live in Siberia and you're used to cold, ~0 Kelvin is still gonna hurt.

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, I'll go with that... just wanted to make sure it wasn't some simple oversight of mine. Thanks


Random question: Jairess Sonn in the Aerie has a Fly skill of +3 and when she drinks her potion of fly the statblock tactics text states her Fly skill increases to +12. How was that number calculated?

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Ansel Krulwich wrote:
Random question: Jairess Sonn in the Aerie has a Fly skill of +3 and when she drinks her potion of fly the statblock tactics text states her Fly skill increases to +12. How was that number calculated?

Hmmm... good question.

PRD wrote:
"The subject gains a bonus on Fly skill checks equal to 1/2 your caster level."

But that doesn't add up, she's a 3rd level Cleric. It's a 3rd level Arcane spell, so, a 5th level caster minimum? That would make the Brewer of said Potion what, 18th level? That or it's just a typo?


Maybe Elvanna brewed it for her. :)

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Well, I don't have an answer either, but I can make up some of those missing skill points.

The fly spell gives you good maneuverability, so that is +4 to the Fly Skill. The spell itself gives you half the caster level so that is another +2 to the Fly Skill (the default CL on a potion is the minimum caster level, so 5 divided by 2 is 2.5, or 2 rounded down).

She has three skill ranks.. so that gets you up to +9.


I didn't think fly granted the maneuverability bonus but I'm fine with it working that way. Edit: Rather, I should say I wasn't certain before.

I couldn't find anything in the sylph race or a domain power that helped, unless I missed something.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Ansel Krulwich wrote:

I didn't think fly granted the maneuverability bonus but I'm fine with it working that way. Edit: Rather, I should say I wasn't certain before.

I couldn't find anything in the sylph race or a domain power that helped, unless I missed something.

I couldn't either.

As for the maneuverability bonus, I could be wrong. I don't pretend to be the perfect rule master. The thing is, the fly spell calls out the good maneuverability. Why do that? Why bother to mention that in the spell description if it is not relevant, and you just want to apply a flat bonus of half the caster level?

Though, I'm prepared to be wrong, just as you're prepared for me to be right. :)


Can the questions to the spirit in the maze leading up to the doll (where PCs must pass diplomacy to ask them) yield further info than the text in bold?

Are the quotes in bold always spoken by the spirit regardless of what the PCs say / what there diplomacy check is like?

Sovereign Court Developer

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Ansel Krulwich wrote:
Random question: Jairess Sonn in the Aerie has a Fly skill of +3 and when she drinks her potion of fly the statblock tactics text states her Fly skill increases to +12. How was that number calculated?

The correct number should be +9. The Fly skill bonus in her tactics was erroneously calculated to include a class skill bonus, which it is not, in her case.

Sovereign Court Developer

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Lanathar wrote:

Can the questions to the spirit in the maze leading up to the doll (where PCs must pass diplomacy to ask them) yield further info than the text in bold?

Are the quotes in bold always spoken by the spirit regardless of what the PCs say / what there diplomacy check is like?

The quotes in bold are the phantom's "scripted" interactions. After hearing them, the PCs can attempt to skill checks to ask additional questions. If successful, the GM should respond to those questions with additional information about Thora's past. What those answers are depends on what questions the PCs ask.

So short answer: Yes, the phantom can reveal additional info beyond the scripted speeches.


Rob McCreary wrote:
Ansel Krulwich wrote:
Random question: Jairess Sonn in the Aerie has a Fly skill of +3 and when she drinks her potion of fly the statblock tactics text states her Fly skill increases to +12. How was that number calculated?
The correct number should be +9. The Fly skill bonus in her tactics was erroneously calculated to include a class skill bonus, which it is not, in her case.

Fair enough. Thanks to you both, Jim and Rob.

Re: The Ice Block Maze -- All of my players have played/GMed Frostfur Captives. I have a fear they'll be compelled to run straight for the hut and burn it to the ground before Thora's spirit can get a word in edgewise.


Have the ground be extremely slippery going through the maze. They can only make a 5 foot move safely, or use acrobatics with a DC level of 25 to move faster than that. If they fail, they fall prone.

That gives the spirit the opportunity to speak... and thus give them a chance to interact. Naturally once they get to the point where they can see the hut, the ground is no longer slippery.


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"It looks clear up to the right over there. Hand me all those alchemist's fire vials that we bought from that crazy elf chick back in town."

"All of them? We have twenty."

"Yeah. I might miss a few times."

"I think this little girl's trying to tell us something."

"Look, I'm a busy man. I don't have time to babysit. Now you keep a look out for more skeletons while I limber up my throwing arm."


Have the wind be blowing in their faces. Hard. It is snowing after all, and windy.

But then, I'm evil and freely admit it. ^^;;


Question on the Black Mantle. If the player increases Int, should the increase be treated as a Headband of Intellect for purposes of skill points gained, etc since, if the player doesn't actively pursue the Geas, the bonus can be removed? I think otherwise it would be a nightmare keeping track of what skill points went where, etc.

How is anyone else handling this situation?


Swashbucklersdc wrote:

Question on the Black Mantle. If the player increases Int, should the increase be treated as a Headband of Intellect for purposes of skill points gained, etc since, if the player doesn't actively pursue the Geas, the bonus can be removed? I think otherwise it would be a nightmare keeping track of what skill points went where, etc.

How is anyone else handling this situation?

That's how I would handle it. I'd have the player write somewhere on their sheet: "Mantle of the Black Rider (+2 Int, Knowledge (arcana))"

Edit: I doubt it would ever matter in practice. The magic needed to break the geas is expensive and there's no benefit in doing so.


Ansel Krulwich said wrote:
Edit: I doubt it would ever matter in practice. The magic needed to break the geas is expensive and there's no benefit in doing so.

I am thinking more of if they don't follow the geas and they lose that stat bonus as opposed to having it removed...


The Geas is only meant to take effect if they decide not to continue along the path of facing Rasputin and the like. If they take a break for several days to enchant a magic item or the like, the Geas seems "sentient" enough to understand "this could improve the chance of ensuring Baba Yaga's will be followed" and thus not take effect.


Tangent101 wrote:
The Geas is only meant to take effect if they decide not to continue along the path of facing Rasputin and the like. If they take a break for several days to enchant a magic item or the like, the Geas seems "sentient" enough to understand "this could improve the chance of ensuring Baba Yaga's will be followed" and thus not take effect.

Yup, just being prepared is all, kinda like the discussion about the crafting of a more permanent rimepelt in the other thread. A couple of days crafting an item is fine, while other non-crafters are gathering information, scouting, etc; players taking a couple weeks to craft items on the other hand may kick that geas into full gear...


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Swashbucklersdc wrote:
Ansel Krulwich said wrote:
Edit: I doubt it would ever matter in practice. The magic needed to break the geas is expensive and there's no benefit in doing so.
I am thinking more of if they don't follow the geas and they lose that stat bonus as opposed to having it removed...

If they don't follow the geas they don't lose the permanent stat bonus--they take stacking penalties to all of their ability scores until they resume their quest.

If the character seriously abandons the quest, they slowly waste away for four days, ultimately end up with -8 penalties to each score (but never reducing their score below 1), and stay that way for life; broken and mad. Also, I would punish them with ever-present gassiness, but that's just my take on it.


I have some questions about some of the encounters in this book (plus a general one)

H4 - Bridge

The encounter says 'anyone who falls in the icy water must take a DC15 fort save'.
Is it possible to fall off the bridge and NOT fall in the water?

Also I asked above but am still not clear - the bridge runs through Timber Creek which runs through the Red Run Gorge 50 ft below

However the creek is only 10 ft down. Can someone explain this geography to me as I am confused

Izoze - The description says she will tell Teb Knotten if she sees the PC raid and rescue. But can she see if the PCs enter and leave through H13? Is it assumed she is high enough in the tree to see over the lodge? And can she see far enough?
Because my PCs entered that way and haven't been outside (they are petrified of finding more sprites I think!)
They did set off the trap that made noise.

I am currently not certain whether to have Izoze waiting for them on the other side of the bridge or not

Winter Portal -

As written this seems like a nightmare for the PCs (even a group with an extra PC)

Unless I have misread I cannot see how the average group can get into the area without Hommelstaub seeing them and throwing the Thunderstone to bring out the other combatants

Then the PCs have to deal with:
Sprite with colour spray
Hommelstaub who can see clearly (and PCs can't)
5ft vision
5ft movement
Teb Knotten and his feather step potion and scent

Unless I have missed something I don't see how this can be overcome. The vision and movement seems horrendous.Has anyone run this (without a Winter Witch PC) ?

All that said : Regarding the combatants -
I assume the Sprites vision is restricted to 5ft which pretty much rules out their bows
Hommelstaub's summoned Eagles will also have vision problems too

Am I viewing this all correctly?

It would seem the PCs only real chance is to push on to the portal?

The other risk is it also seems like they can easily miss out on a lot of treasure as they will have no way of seeing the cave entrance

General point:

Do all the perception DCs (including for traps) build in the -4 for snow? Because some of them are very hard as is.
My group has no characters with perception as a class skill. Highest might be +2. They are having major issues! But I think it would still be pretty hard even with a druid or ranger with around +6

Sorry for the very long post


Lanathar wrote:

I have some questions about some of the encounters in this book (plus a general one)

H4 - Bridge

The encounter says 'anyone who falls in the icy water must take a DC15 fort save'.
Is it possible to fall off the bridge and NOT fall in the water?

Also I asked above but am still not clear - the bridge runs through Timber Creek which runs through the Red Run Gorge 50 ft below

However the creek is only 10 ft down. Can someone explain this geography to me as I am confused

The creek is not 10 ft down. It is 10' deep. A 50' fall to the 10' deep creek.

As for falling off the bridge and not into the water? As written, if you fall you hit the water, not anything else. You might be able to avoid hitting anything with featherfall and a quick rope?

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Lanathar wrote:

I have some questions about some of the encounters in this book (plus a general one)

Izoze - The description says she will tell Teb Knotten if she sees the PC raid and rescue. But can she see if the PCs enter and leave through H13? Is it assumed she is high enough in the tree to see over the lodge? And can she see far enough?
Because my PCs entered that way and haven't been outside (they are petrified of finding more sprites I think!)
They did set off the trap that made noise.

I am currently not certain whether to have Izoze waiting for them on the other side of the bridge or not

Winter Portal -

As written this seems like a nightmare for the PCs (even a group with an extra PC)

Unless I have misread I cannot see how the average group can get into the area without Hommelstaub seeing them and throwing the Thunderstone to bring out the other combatants

Then the PCs have to deal with:
Sprite with colour spray
Hommelstaub who can see clearly (and PCs can't)
5ft vision
5ft movement
Teb Knotten and his feather step potion and scent

Unless I have missed something I don't see how this can be overcome. The vision and movement seems horrendous.Has anyone run this (without a Winter Witch PC) ?

All that said : Regarding the combatants -
I assume the Sprites vision is restricted to 5ft which pretty much rules out their bows
Hommelstaub's summoned Eagles will also have vision problems too

Am I viewing this all correctly?

It would seem the PCs only real chance is to push on to the portal?

The other risk is it also seems like they can easily miss out on a lot of treasure as they will...

Izoze - I don't see anything to the contrary, so Izoze should take normal penalties to Perception. It does say she stays at the bridge and only attacks those trying to cross or those that attack her. I'm planning on having her possibly engage the PCs, but she will def flee to tell Teb at some point.

Winter Portal - Again, it is what it is.

closetgamer wrote:
Keolin Portara wrote:
How are the PCs supposed to be able to fight Hommelstaub near the winter portal? The snow is supposed to make it so they can't see anything past five feet and offer concealment even there, and you have an enemy that can fly 50 ft per round and can see through the snow. How are they supposed to deal with that?

I like this answer!

Rob McCreary wrote:

Yes. See the "Traveling Conditions" section on page 10. No one said going to stop an magical winter from taking over the globe would be easy! :)

That said, you could certainly rule that the snow stops for certain important encounters, if you feel it would hinder the PCs too much.

Also, I'm not sure who (whether it was Neil, or Rob, or some other Paizo voice), but it was suggested/explained (earlier in this thread I believe) that in the immediate area around the portal the weather is not as detrimental to movement/vision.

So, that's not to say you can't adjust things for your group.


So if the damage not 5d6 falling because you are hitting water and not solid ground?


Falling into water wrote:

Falls into water are handled somewhat differently. If the water is at least 10 feet deep, the first 20 feet of falling do no damage. The next 20 feet do nonlethal damage (1d3 per 10-foot increment). Beyond that, falling damage is lethal damage (1d6 per additional 10-foot increment).

Characters who deliberately dive into water take no damage on a successful DC 15 Swim check or DC 15 Acrobatics check, so long as the water is at least 10 feet deep for every 30 feet fallen. The DC of the check, however, increases by 5 for every 50 feet of the dive.


DthAlchemist wrote:
Anyone else have their PCs utterly fail in the encounter with Pym, Shor, and Vosi? On round one, I had 2 PCs plucked with arrows, and on round 2, all but the summoner's eidolon failed Will saves for color spray, leaving the entire party unconscious (and banishing the Eidolon as a result). I opted to have the sprites take the opportunity to flee and report back to Izoze.

Just to make you feel bad;

Numbing Cold (su)

When an ice elemental deals cold damage to a creature, that creature must succeed on a Fortitude save or be staggered for 1 round.

Staggered

A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions). A staggered creature can still take free, swift, and immediate actions. A creature with nonlethal damage exactly equal to its current hit points gains the staggered condition.

Near as I can tell the sprites arrows don't knock people out. Easy to forget the sprites are shooting at +4 instead of +8 as well because of the snow.


The arrows don't knock you out, but the Color Spray sure does.

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