Which may be the PC's way of thumbing their noses right back at 'Little Grandmother'.
Developer
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Also, there's a slight problem: 500 years ago, the 9th queen Tashanna tried to defy her mother during the rebellion known as the Witchwar. But in The Witchwar Legacy adventure, it's noted on page 22 that Tashanna was not killed for betraying Baba Yaga, but rather banished from Golarion. She went on to become a "witch tyrant and binder of demons," and, as some of you know, was very likely Iggwilv of Greyhawk fame. So is that tidbit being retconned? On account of Baba Yaga absorbing her daughters' life force?
Hmmm. I guess you'll have to wait for the full AP to see...
Adventure Background, pg 7, second paragraph.
Here's something I noticed though--In order to free Baba Yaga in the final book, the book explicitly says that the PCs have to kill Queen Elvanna (Baba Yaga's imprisonment is tied to Elvanna's life, Campaign Outline, pg 91, last paragraph).
Doesn't that mean she won't have a daughter to snack on at the appointed feeding time? That's bound to have some repercussions.
Of course, she may just decide that the PCs are nice and tasty.
Giving them yet another reason to pound on her at the end.
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Having read it, it sounds more like Roberta Yaga is drinking their youth and vitality rather than eating their souls. It's still bad but at least it's not irreversibly super-bleak "daemon" bad.
Still suspect there's going to be a way for PCs to break the cycle though. Or at least to cheat Baba Yaga this go-round. :)
Creative Director
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Also, there's a slight problem: 500 years ago, the 9th queen Tashanna tried to defy her mother during the rebellion known as the Witchwar. But in The Witchwar Legacy adventure, it's noted on page 22 that Tashanna was not killed for betraying Baba Yaga, but rather banished from Golarion. She went on to become a "witch tyrant and binder of demons," and, as some of you know, was very likely Iggwilv of Greyhawk fame. So is that tidbit being retconned? On account of Baba Yaga absorbing her daughters' life force?
Keep in mind that when we summarize 300+ pages of adventure in less than 2 pages of text, we take shortcuts and can't mention every single variable or tidbit.
AKA: Have faith in us and wait until you see the last volume where we have room to talk more about the fates of each specific previous queen before you panic about retconning.
EDIT: Oops... Ninjaed by Rob.
My point stands. The summary is meant to summarize, not address every possible aspect of the adventure path. If it did... it'd be as long as the adventure path and wouldn't be a summary.
Maybe Hansel and Gretel will make an apperance.
To quote He Who Asked the Doctor What is Up:
Hansel?
Hansel?
Hansel?
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Hmm, then my guess is...
That Baba Yaga got her fill of lifeforce elsewhere? Maybe she needs so much soul energy, and it just so happens that the easiest way for her to get it all at once is by draining her daughter/Irrisen's queen. But if she's denied that method, she'll just replace quality with quantity and suck a whole generation dry.
That still doesn't answer why she let Tashanna go free. Assuming she actually did, of course.
My guess is that Baba Yaga doesn't NEED to feed every 100 years, that would be like humans eating once a week and if they don't get something down they are going to pass out and die. They Eat before they NEED to.
If she waited more than 100 years, maybe her daughter would risk being too powerful by then?
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My players found out about the baba yaga aspect and reminded me their high level heroes killed her off in an epic three day battle (the old "hut of baba yaga" module by tsr) a long time ago.
I just laughed maniacally and stated death is not a career ending event when you are an epic level mage like a folklore classic from russia, much less an 18th level mage...
They now believe Iggwilv wished her back to life...and are blaming every mishap or bad luck on a vegeful baba yaga.
I have a paranoid pack of gamers whose high level character's children are now the current local heroes they will run through this adventure arc.
Despite pleading I will not let them bring the high levels out of retirement...Boy! this adventure is just tailor made for freaking out my players...
Thanks Paizo!
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dude cool, they are all playing their own descendants!
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My 11 year old keeps calling her "Baba Yaga and the 40 thieves" .... sigh no I have to come up with a thieves guild so there is no disappointment....:)
My 11 year old keeps calling her "Baba Yaga and the 40 thieves" .... sigh no I have to come up with a thieves guild so there is no disappointment....:)
40 witchery-powered thieves .. 2 per level .. shouldn't be TOO bad a chargen grind, right? ^_____^
Wouldn't it be great if all that crazy crap Baba Yaga lugs around is actually super powerful? Like, maybe the carrot in her pack contains a dozen bound pit fiends, she's actually wearing a shapeless hairnet of intelligence +10, and that plucked chicken strapped to her back is none other than the legendary Poultry of Ineffable Doom. I don't even want to know what her purple and green stockings can do (aside from smelling just incredibly pungent).
stockings of stink feet are exclusively wearable over the feet of Vecna I hear ...
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OR, in this case.... the feet of Yenta.
Baba Yaga is not necessarily going to ride off into the sunset giving the PCs the middle finger.
Alternately, that could be the most hilarious closing scene in history. Adventurers watching the chicken hut rising up on its legs, Baba Yaga sticks her head out. The PCs ask, "What about us? We saved you!"
Old lady flips them the bird and rides away on her chicken-striding hut.
Stranding them on some icy moon somewhere.
^____^
"Should've learned interplanetary teleport when you had the chance!" *bird gets flipped*
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After the reveal of where most, if not the entirety, of the sixth volume is going to take place, I can't help but imagine the maps being very headache inducing.
Like Inception. Except replace "dream" with "hut".
Needs more
After the reveal of where most, if not the entirety, of the sixth volume is going to take place, I can't help but imagine the maps being very headache inducing.
Like Inception. Except replace "dream" with "hut".
Hutception.
This AP is starting to sound somewhat less than promising.
This AP is starting to sound somewhat less than promising.
Don't get discouraged! There is a lot of "putting the horse before the cart" happening in this thread. Like trying to guess a Season or Series Finale after a first episode.
Rob and James have this well in hand. I know it's easy to say "trust them", but try to filter some of the second guessing going on and enjoy the unfolding story.
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For those asking questions about the fate of Tashanna, may I recommend hunting through some older adventures for her fate?
Selected reading spoilered for those who want it so:
Check out "The Witchwar Legacy" module for Tashanna's last days on Golarion.
Look into the "Savage Tide" AP for her most recent activities.
After the reveal of where most, if not the entirety, of the sixth volume is going to take place, I can't help but imagine the maps being very headache inducing.
Like Inception. Except replace "dream" with "hut".
The classic Dragon Magazine version by Roger E. Moore had 24 huge floors linked to each other in the shape of a tesseract, and wasn't that just a huge pain to map?
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And The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga was in the shape of a fractal, if I recall correctly. That adventure speculated that the Hut changed its layout from world to world, which accounts for all previous descriptions of it to be accurate. Looking forward to seeing how it is laid out when it lands on Golarion!
The classic Dragon Magazine version by Roger E. Moore had 24 huge floors linked to each other in the shape of a tesseract, and wasn't that just a huge pain to map?After the reveal of where most, if not the entirety, of the sixth volume is going to take place, I can't help but imagine the maps being very headache inducing.
Like Inception. Except replace "dream" with "hut".
And The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga was in the shape of a fractal, if I recall correctly. That adventure speculated that the Hut changed its layout from world to world, which accounts for all previous descriptions of it to be accurate. Looking forward to seeing how it is laid out when it lands on Golarion!
Which issue and adventure?
He's so hot right nowMaybe Hansel and Gretel will make an apperance.
To quote He Who Asked the Doctor What is Up:Hansel?
Hansel?
Hansel?
I love the Bugs Bunny one with Witch Hazel. Jeremey Renner is strangely a handsome man, lol/
Which issue and adventure?
Issue #83 of Dragon Magazine..published early 1984 I think..it was one of the first I remember buying.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought there was a woman possessing "at least the powers of a 20th level witch/wizard" who sometimes shows up in the Dancing Hut.
I figured it was Tashanna/Iggwilv/Louhi
In the Dragon #83 version, there were two daughters of Baba Yaga who could be encountered in the hut IIRC, one good and one evil... the evil one being Natasha, later retconned into being Tasha/Iggwilv/Tashanna.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought there was a woman possessing "at least the powers of a 20th level witch/wizard" who sometimes shows up in the Dancing Hut.
According to Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Artifacts & Legends:
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You kids talking about me?
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You kids talking about me?
Uh! Hello, um, Little Mother, how are -- ohgodno
....I ... hope you are well.
(Guys. Listen. Whatever you do, DO NOT ASK HER A DIRECT QUESTION. Muse about things. Steer the conversation gently toward topics of interest. But NO QUESTIONS. Especially not about stuff you think she might actually WANT to tell you. And above all BE POLITE.)
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Such a good boy. Grandmother is pleased.
stokes the oven, sets aside a 'hog-sized' basting pan and starts slicing up potatoes and veggies into the pan
I know how to deal with this situation, I've watched Paw Dugan's Let's Play of Quest for Glory 1! *Takes out his Magic Mirror of Spell Turning*
blue! no green! ahhhhhhh
...now this is an interesting turn of events.
I know I'm weighing in late on this topic, but I kind of want to respond to the first post a bit...
Fantasy fiction appeals to a part of us that longs for simplicity; most of the time the heroes are clearly the good guys and the villians are clearly villians. The struggle is almost always can good oversome evil?
But Roleplaying is about telling a good story. Is telling the same story with slight variations on a theme really what you want to do? Some of my favorite stories break that mold.
For me the best villians are the ones we cannot cleanly define as villians, guys like Magneato who suffered in a concentration camp and rightly sees the US goverment echoing the behaviors of Nazi Germany. He responds in a way that from the perspective of the estabilishment as terrorist activity but in the eyes of the oppressed minority he acts as a patriot. Another example of this is "V" from the V for Vendetta comics rather than the movie, that V acts and there's no explaination or clarity to his actions. He acts without clear motives and the reader is left to decide.
The best Heroes are like this too. Drizzt D'orden (sp prolly chill) doubts every step he takes on his heroic journey. He rarely gets to feel like he acted cleanly.
The best story in English literature is like this as well. Debate it if you wish but HAmlet is if not the greatest it is close to the greatest story in literature because the hero doesn't have a clear path. He has to chose between allowing a crime to go unpunished or to commit murder on the word of a ghost so he does what most of us would do, he hesitates and tries to make the choice clearer. As he stalls things become worse.
I love that the heros might not get a clear path to good or evil. I love that they have to choose the lesser of 2 evils that's great literature and a great story. I encourage anyone running this to keep an open mind, you might find a story that surprises you.
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At the same time, moral ambiguity is something we all have to live with in reality. And for many of us, gaming is an escape from that, a chance to live in a world where there's a clear answer of what is right and what is wrong, and more importantly a world where doing the right thing doesn't end up with you being scorned, hated, and/or forgotten 99% of the time. A chance to be a hero without having to second-guess every action you take because you might just be yet another villain's puppet, or where the only solution to every problem is choosing between the lesser of two evils rather than getting a chance at actually picking the good.
There's enough moral ambiguity in real life to last me a thousand game sessions of simple black versus white.
There's enough moral ambiguity in real life to last me a thousand game sessions of simple black versus white.
Totally get where you're coming from on that and in some ways I agree. But then there's pretty much how it is for most any other AP. If you want clearly defined good vs clearly defined evil you have decades worth of products and you can always change this one if that's your preference.
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I've got a couple of ideas for ways that I could spin Baba Yaga at the end of this AP:
1. Play down the moral ambiguity: give the PCs a clever way to double cross Baba Yaga after defeating her daughter. That will let them play Big Damn Heroes if that's what they want.
2. Play up the moral ambiguity: Baba Yaga needs to be allowed to harvest her daughters' energy and keep Irrisen enslaved. Even though she's evil, she's the only being powerful enough to stop some even *worse* evil from destroying the universe. She's created her universe-spanning empire to power herself to keep this evil in check. I call this the "Galactus Plot".
My players are planning on killing every thing evil that moves, has moved, was planning on moving, might move in the future...you get the picture!
I have no issues with this...it's going to be like watching a sentient tsunami hit Whiterun!
I haven't let them cut loose in a while...what the heck! Let them have fun...
I'm planning on kidnapping their mage with the cult of the dragon leader they seem to have forgotten about!
I need them beyond angry...then they might make a mistake or three...
This campaign arc is the adventure series of my dreams!
Thanks Paizo! Thanks A Whole Bunch!!!
There's enough moral ambiguity in real life to last me a thousand game sessions of simple black versus white.Totally get where you're coming from on that and in some ways I agree. But then there's pretty much how it is for most any other AP. If you want clearly defined good vs clearly defined evil you have decades worth of products and you can always change this one if that's your preference.
Of Paizo's campaign-APs, I don't see that it has been the majority rule, at best I'd gauge it at 50/50. To varying degrees ~half-ish of the other APs have "cooperate with these gooberheads to whackamole those gooberheads". Sometimes you can go back and whackamole the first group of gooberheads. Other times you can't for various reasons.