Double header question challenge!! Chain of Perdition and Magus's Pool Strike


Rules Questions


1) are incorporeal creatures affected by chain of perdition's combat maneuvers since it is a force weapon?

2) does the Magus pool strike couple with sneak attack precision damage?

thanks folks!


buckledup wrote:
1) are incorporeal creatures affected by chain of perdition's combat maneuvers since it is a force weapon?

Chain of Perdition: "School evocation [force];"

"A floating chain of force with hooks at each end appears within an unoccupied space of your choosing within range."

Incorporeal (Ex): "Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally."

buckledup wrote:
2) does the Magus pool strike couple with sneak attack precision damage?

What do you mean by couple?

Sneak Attack: "The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."

Pool Strike (Su) lets you make a melee touch attack. If the target of that attack is denied dex, or flanked, and doesn't have concealment (or whatever), then it would deal sneak attack damage.


i asked about the incorporeal creatures since in their description they specify that they are not affected by combat maneuvers that "move" the creature. they give no caveat for force weapons, but it seems to make sense that it should.

pool strike coupled with sneak attack: using pool strike as a character that can also deal sneak (precision) damage would they work in conjunction?

example: 7 magus/ 1 rogue attacks with pool strike with flanking. does the damage equal 3d6 + 1d6 or just the 3d6?


buckledup wrote:

i asked about the incorporeal creatures since in their description they specify that they are not affected by combat maneuvers that "move" the creature. they give no caveat for force weapons, but it seems to make sense that it should.

pool strike coupled with sneak attack: using pool strike as a character that can also deal sneak (precision) damage would they work in conjunction?

example: 7 magus/ 1 rogue attacks with pool strike with flanking. does the damage equal 3d6 + 1d6 or just the 3d6?

I see nothing in the wording of either ability that would bar you from benefiting from both at once, as long as the necessary conditions are met. Performing a Pool Strike would allow you to make a melee touch attack (using your weapon, if you chose to use Spellstrike [and why wouldn't you?]), and if the target were denied its DEX bonus, then you would deal the Pool Strike damage plus your Sneak Attack damage as normal.

Note that if you don't want to multi-class, convince a friend to take the Precise Strike teamwork feat with you.


excellent. i thought as such, but i like to get other opinions before i just assume and start a character build. and yes any time i play a meleer i always try to convince someone else on the team to go with precise strike.


buckledup wrote:
excellent. i thought as such, but i like to get other opinions before i just assume and start a character build. and yes any time i play a meleer i always try to convince someone else on the team to go with precise strike.

Not to derail the thread, but teaming up a 9th level Magus with a Saurian Shaman (Raptor) Druid using Precise Strike is disgusting. 4 attacks per round by the Magus (on a full attack action with Haste up) and 5 attacks from the Druid, all getting an additional 1d6 damage... ugh.


buckledup wrote:
i asked about the incorporeal creatures since in their description they specify that they are not affected by combat maneuvers that "move" the creature. they give no caveat for force weapons, but it seems to make sense that it should.

Ah.

"The chain can perform the dirty trick (blind or entangle), drag, reposition, and trip combat maneuvers"

"Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions."

I think all of those would qualify as manipulating the opponent. So RAW, no.

However, I think it's really reasonable for some of those to work with a force effect.

Not trip, since it's basically floating. But the rest seem fairly logical since you're using the force effect to push it around.

Xaratherus wrote:
teaming up a 9th level Magus with a Saurian Shaman (Raptor) Druid using Precise Strike is disgusting. 4 attacks per round by the Magus (on a full attack action with Haste up)

Is the magus two-weapon fighting, or using a natural weapon?

Note that Spell Combat is not a full-attack, so it doesn't benefit from haste. If you'd like to see an official response to that issue, there's a FAQ request post here.


Grick wrote:

Is the magus two-weapon fighting, or using a natural weapon?

Note that Spell Combat is not a full-attack, so it doesn't benefit from haste. If you'd like to see an official response to that issue, there's a FAQ request post here.

Correct, it's a full-round action. I'm mixing up my attack numbers. 3 on a full attack with haste.

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