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On the surface, the Magus and the Warmage from the Miniatures Handbook and Complete Arcane look a lot like each other. So, I have a couple of questions.
1. How would you use the Magus in world building? Would you build whole armies out of them?
2. Have any of you played Magi? Can you tell me your thoughts about the class?
I think these two questions are out of logical order, but I'll let them stand as they are. :)
On the surface, the Magus and the Warmage from the Miniatures Handbook and Complete Arcane look a lot like each other. So, I have a couple of questions.
1. How would you use the Magus in world building? Would you build whole armies out of them?
2. Have any of you played Magi? Can you tell me your thoughts about the class?
I think these two questions are out of logical order, but I'll let them stand as they are. :)
Good thing Magus are deep, because surfaces aside, they aren't similar to Warmages at all :)
1. Would you build whole armies out of Rangers? Rogues? Wizards? Inquisitors? Paladins? Etc, etc. I would say that for the most part, no. You may build special units (Scouts, Assassins, Mystics, Judges, Avengers, Etc, etc.) out of them sure, but probably not whole armies.
2. I'm playing a Magus in a Carrion Crown game and absolute love it. Probably my favorite character ever. I like the flexibility. Not as much spell power as a Wizard, but more martial skill and can still hang in combat even when running low on spells.
The biggest complaint I have with the Magus class is how cookie-cutter the builds tend to be, given the way Spellstrike and starting with light armor push one towards the scimitar Dervish Dance setup.
But it's a great class, without question.
I would only construct entire armies out of the magus if an army that wields magic and weapons simultaneously was a key conceit of a culture. Actually, I have a culture somewhat like that, but because they are tied to Sorcerers instead of Wizards, I can't use the Magus there, so I'm using an ad-hoc homebrew class for those NPCs (and mage cadres made up of Sorcerers).
Going back to the class, the best things about are how it is designed to let you be a fighter / mage character from day 1, and do it round after round. Many classical "gish" builds don't start to feel like a gish until mid to high level, because they need a lot of levels to get both progressions going and reach some synergy. And even then, many of them are just a fighter with magical buffs who occasionally casts spells, because each round (unless they have quickened spells available), they must choose between a weapon attack and a spell. But because Spell Combat breaks normal action economy, the Magus can cast a spell and make a weapon attack every round he has spells.
And unlike many previous gish classes, the Magus has a solid and flexible spell list, with a mechanism for adding spells to it..
I do wish it wasn't tied to a one-handed weapon and an empty hand (they could have declared that the somatic components were made with the weapon, perhaps, and given a Concentration check to casting without a weapon), and that Spellstrike was either written to use the weapon's critical multiplier as well, or did not exist. That, and perhaps medium armor from level 1, would facilitate a wider selection of character concepts in the class.
Edit: Back to worldbuilding: I do have a culture that has many Magi. In fact, it probably has near-exclusive access, much as it does to Wizards. I'm treating Magi as something of an elite in the that culture; probably only a few are accepted into the programs at the academies that teach the blend of sword & spell. I would say they serve in most all elite roles; bodyguards to the most elite wizards (along with golems), and likely any assassin roles as well.
The biggest complaint I have with the Magus class is how cookie-cutter the builds tend to be, given the way Spellstrike and starting with light armor push one towards the scimitar Dervish Dance setup.
I agree. That's why I allow the Magus to utilize higher crit multipliers while using spellstrike. As a general rule, I also don't allow regional feats unless the campaign is set in that region.
I'm playing a female elf magus as a DMNPC (it can be done,it isn't a skill-monster class,she just has a good knowledge arcana).
IN my setting the king of the elven nation has a small number of elves magus as a special unit of royal guards,but i too wouldn't make whole armies out of this class (as for any other PC class other than the fighter at low levels)
I would have preferred fewer class abilities but more levels of magic (maybe spontaneous spellcasting);of course the spell recall feature helps here.
Anyway it is a great class for who,like me, likes to mix melee with casting.
Not armies. Need above average int. And Low lvl magus don't really work - low AC, few spells, concentration check. It's more a class of the elite. Nobles with the resourses to hire an expert to train them.
Or so I see them.
That said. If you want to buff and encoounter with a low of low lvl foes - give them a few lvl's of magus, int 12-14 - and see how a small army might not kill a midt to high lvl PC's - but can hit them with true strike, area damage with burnings hands, debuff with ray of enfeablement.
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I feel about the same as most. They would make much better commando squads and even stealth squads. (low ACP and invis spells work well for this.)Save for maybe Skirnir Magi. They could make an army I suppose. But they take forever to get off the ground (lvl 8) so it would be one serious army. Something I would oath to use.
As for cookie cutter builds I have to disagree. Yes the Dex build is common but just with what I have played and seen played we have a whip trip Magus, Hexcrafter using hair as his main weapon, A halfling slingstaff magus, and I am forgetting at least one.
You know what I have never seen? A Barb that was not THF. So barbs are clearly far more cookie cutter yet there is a great deal less complaining about it. It's more peoples personal dislike for one feat disguised as anti-cookie cutter complaints.
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I don't see the resemblance to Warmage at all. Maybe the OP meant Duskblade?
Hmpf, we really don't see THF barbs. Usually sword and board or sword and board with the ability to go two hander (like a dwarf axe)
We have never had a dervish dance magus at the table because we havent played a camapign in quadria since magus came out...but we do have plans to revisit LoF and I'll expect to see one then. The other option is an elven spell dancer with dervish dance. The only ones allowed at the table.
So far we have had a straight beta magus, a blade bound hex crafter, a bladebound, a bladebound kensai that didnt actually get played, and currently a skirnir whip trip magus.
No cookie cutters yet.
I had quite the experience last night playing my Magus. He was facing a summoner, and the guy kept crapping out lemures. OH HOW I HATE THEE!!! If ever there was a monster designed specifically to make Magus characters cry...but I digress. My saving grace was that he was a Kensai, and had a ridiculous AC once I buffed him with Cat's Grace and Shield. They needed to hit him on a 20, so of course they hit him twice in the first round, and on average at least once for the next two rounds until I got off a Glitterdust. Did I mention there were about 12 of these suckers on the field (and half were Hasted)!!! GAH!
Anyway, he ended up winning, amazing everyone including myself. I kept rolling 1s for damage, making the fight drag out until the summons started wearing out. Longest minute of the characters life! He truly won only by out-enduring the summons.
We talked a bit about it afterwards, and it was pretty amazing that he won the fight. I had a different 2H weapon character I was playing for a short bit, and I think he might have done a smidge better against them, but that's due to the overall brokenness of PA/Cleave/Cleaving Finish.
Im curious why didnt you just ignore the lemures and beat down the summoner?
I've played a Magus for quite a while now and to be honest I agree with previous posters, picturing an entire army of them is pretty hard to swallow. I can see a specialized group of them, maybe utilizing dimension door and invisibility to get the drop on enemies while other units draw attention.
Most of my builds now are strength focus instead of dex, mainly because I like the idea of a heavy armored mage and dex builds normally prevent the use of heavy armor later. My current is a tiefling who's taken exotic weapon proficiency at level 3 for a rhoka sword. It has a good crit range and goes from 1d8 to 2d6 just with enlarge person.
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I have used the Magus as the 'default' elf class in my Golarion. I have needed, for years, a reason to explain why the elves would lose control over the world in favor of the humans. Many DM's simply hand-waive the issue or point towards increased fecundity by humans. I have found it much more elegant to contend that it was humans, and not elves, who focused totally on magical study and thus unlocked the mystery of the wizard class. Elves, on the other hand, with their longer lives and greater preference for balanced study and experience, never committed to the years of focused discipline required to make wizardry a core value. In the same way, I posited fighters as being a human development from the more general warrior and clerics as the result of more generalist adepts.
With this view, the magus becomes something special to the elves and the art of being a magus is hard to learn outside of the elven community. (Not impossible, but rare, similar to how monks ought to be in a Western European default setting, like the Inner Sea region of Golarion.)
In-game, the Magus plays very well. I disagree that you have to go 'dervish dance' to get the full benefit, although that is a nice synergistic build. The class tends to be best in a party where a Bard or a 'Combat Cleric' would be a good fit. It is a great back-up caster, especially as the mobility assets allow for the Magus to be a great Medevac for the party that gets in over its head.
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I have had great fun with this magus, although I haven't had a chance to play since I found my black blade. This character is the usual Dervish Dance build, with the Bladebound archetype.
Arcane Pool can also make the magus an effective ranged character; I can enchant a bow just as easily as a melee weapon.
Which spells I prepare depends on what other arcane caster is in the group. No other arcane cater, or a blaster? I'll use control spells like Grease. Otherwise I'll focus on melee oriented spells like Shocking Grasp and Shield.
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I just posted a message in another thread about the class. I am at present playing a 7th level Elven Magus with no archetype, just the standard build. So far, I have LOVED the class. They have astounding versitility, being able to hurl spells and still wear armor. I love the Spellstrike ability, too.
As posted a while ago, been combining the Magus ability to enchant my sword with electricity, then adding in a Spellstrike with Shocking grasp. In my character's case, that adds up to 1d8+5 plus 6d6 damage in 1 attack. No too shabby, if you ask me.
Can't wait to get access to Dimension Door. Combine that with Greater Invisibility, and you have something not very pleasant in store for your opponants. Add in a series of feats that allow you to use Dimension Door as a charge and...hehehehe!
BWAHAHAHA! I WANNA DO THIS!
I've found that the Magus serves as a perfect complement to the Fighter and the Wizard by being able to dish out damage and flank while taking away the responsibility for casting Haste from the Wizard. Not only does the Magus exist as a class specializing in action economy, he provides it to the party as well.
In my mind, the magus is the most common "combat class" for elves after the ranger. It's iconic for them to be a mix of fighting and magic, and the magus is great at that. As much as I don't see elves doing ranked mass combat, if they were pushed into it I would say a decent chunk of their forces would be magi, with heavy support from ranger recon/ranged strike teams.
I've played a half-orc Strength magus that focused on buffed melee and using blasting magic for range when necessary. He was amazingly fun to play, and I would play another magus in a heartbeat, though I personally don't find them as fun at low-level because I don't care for the scimitar Dervish Dance stuff being the best way to play them at low level. I'm hoping the ACG opens them up for rapiers with a Dex-to-Damage feat, at least. If that happens I'll probably play an Aldori magus.
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The Magus is hands down my favourite class in Pathfinder, no others even come close. IMO the class is super versatile and very fun to play with the insane action economy and all the options you have in combat.
While the forums often recommend the same Dervish Dance build over and over again, the Magus has so many options.
In addition to being big damage dealers and sky-high AC walls, Magi can
-apply many different kinds of debuffs through a wide variety of spells and feats
-be masters of combat maneuvers with support from stuff like True Strike, Maneuvery Mastery, Arcane Accuracy
-be surprisingly good skill monkeys with their focus on Int which gives them lots of skill points, bonuses to many good skills, and the option to apply Int to other skills (Bruising Intellect, Clever Wordplay, etc). They also have a lot of good spells/arcana to boost their skill use (ie Vanish and Arcane Cloak)
-be strong at range with the use of a whip
-be nearly as versatile of a caster as the wizard through the use of Spell Blending
The really fun thing is that you don't have to choose, and can do nearly all of these things at once.
You can also get really creative with dips like
-Monk: gives many nice skills, boosts AC, gives a prerequisite skipping feat, and adds a lot of other stuff depending on archetype such as easy access to style feats or even more action economy insanity (maneuver master)
-Winter Witch: gives you a familiar (take improved familiar to ginore the loss of progression), some nice spells (such as Mage Armour and Touch of Fatigue), spell element flexibility and extra damage (Frozen Caress). If you choose to really focus on cold spells you don't even lose CL.
-Sorcerer: HUGE damage (crossblooded), other useful bloodline powers, many good spells.
If you want to do dips my suggestion would be:
White-Haired Witch 2/Hexcrafter Magus X....
Just Saying.