Speed+Speed+Haste?


Rules Questions

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Ssalarn wrote:
Dr Grecko wrote:

What would the cost of a Haste item be if it didn't effectively give you an extra feat (dodge) / an extra untyped bonus to attack / and a bonus 30feet of movent?

If speed did all that as well, I could see it being worth the property. As it stands, it's overpriced. I could make a CL10 wand of haste for 22,500 and have 500 rounds of haste at my disposal at 10 rounds a pop, and have it effect the ENTIRE group with ALL the benifits of haste and still save myself 10,000 gold that I can use to enhance my sword with a more useful ability.

Right, but your Haste from a wand can be dispelled, and you have to make the UMD check to use it in the first place, as well as burning the action to utilize. Speed is on all the time and can't be dispelled. And as Shinigaze pointed out in the post above, and SKR before that, it's actually not overpriced at all.

My point, is that there are superior options for considerably lower cost.

EDIT: You can also suppress the effects of a magic sword with dispel, rendering that argument void.


Wow... I actually find myself preferring Legacy over Paizo's ruling.

Though is this expected to be following Legacy?

Because:

A 3.5 Web Enhancement explains that the addition of the ruling was to prevent 2 Extra Attacks with a Single Weapon. So a Greatsword Fighter can only get 1 Extra Attack. But a TWF Rogue can make extra attacks with each weapon if they have 2 Speed Weapons or have 1 Speed Weapon and are Hasted.

The exception was AoMF & Monk's Flurrying in the Fact that they only gained a single Bonus Attack while Flurrying. But Remember this is when Flurry of Blows was different. And they had plenty of places in which it was clarified each Natural Attack type counted as One Weapon. So a creature with 2 Slams, 2 Claws, & 1 Bite instead gets 3 Slams, 3 Claws, & 2 Bites...


Dr Grecko wrote:
My point, is that there are superior options for considerably lower cost.

Which is a fine point to make, but please stop confusing "there are better items" with "this is RAW". If better options influenced RAW then things like the Prone Shooter feat would not be completely useless. For those of you that don't know, prone shooter takes away the penalties to attack when firing certain ranged weapons prone, the only problem is there are no penalties for firing when prone so this feat does absolutely nothing.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Dr Grecko wrote:
Shinigaze wrote:

One thing I see consistently argued is that boots of speed cost significantly less than Speed so that makes Speed bad, but lets take a look at what boots of speed would cost if it was following the same rules as speed.

5(Caster Level)*3(Spell Level)*2000(continuous use)*4(measured in rounds)*2(Slotless)= 240,000gp

You are getting an enhancement bonus to an item that if you were to try and replicate with the item creation rules would cost you almost ten times as much. You lose all of the other associated benefits from haste like movement and AC and then you pay roughly 13% of what it should cost. Does that seem overpriced to you?

As mentioned several times. Haste does more than just give YOU one extra attack.. It gives YOU and your ALLIES an extra attack, a bonus to hit, a bonus to ac, and a bonus to movement.

IF speed did ALL that I would agree with you, but it doesn't

It gives you an extra attack per round. The next nearest spell that accomplishes something similar would be Spiritual Weapon, a second level spell. That still gives you a price tag of 160,000, which is 5 and 1/3 times more than Speed costs you. Hell, if we assume it's only equivalent to a first level spell, you're still coming in 50,000 gold under the mark with the Speed property.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Shinigaze wrote:
Dr Grecko wrote:
My point, is that there are superior options for considerably lower cost.
Which is a fine point to make, but please stop confusing "there are better items" with "this is RAW". If better options influenced RAW then things like the Prone Shooter feat would not be completely useless. For those of you that don't know, prone shooter takes away the penalties to attack when firing certain ranged weapons prone, the only problem is there are no penalties for firing when prone so this feat does absolutely nothing.

They actually fixed that Shinigaze, Prone Shooter now increases the bonus to AC you get vs. ranged attacks for being prone while decreasing the penalty vs. melee attacks.

Assistant Software Developer

I don't see a question here. Thread is locked.

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