Please replace Adventure Path fiction with better maps!


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

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Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Damocles Guile wrote:
I'll tell you one thing I really liked - I don't have all the AP's, but like you I'm trying to fill them in as I can afford them... I got Legacy of Fire in its entirety when it was on sale and they had small mini-adventures they called 'set pieces' which could be inserted into any number of places in the AP, between books or not at all depending on the need of the group. I really thought that was added value and would love to see a continuation of that over the fiction that's included.

It's been mentioned before, by James Jacobs I believe, that set pieces didn't really work out for their intended purpose and that's why the were discontinued after LoF. They were a somewhat failed experiment.

-Skeld

EDIT: Here's JJ giving some explanation behind what happened with set pieces (origination post).

James Jacobs wrote:

The set pieces won't be returning. They had the double kiss of death: they were relatively unpopular among the overall readership, and for the amount of room they took up they were VERY difficult to develop and edit (since adventures are among the most difficult parts of the game to write and develop and edit).

Also, it has ALWAYS been close to impossible to get authors to write short, 5000 or so word adventures. Authors just don't want to do that, in my experience, and it simply got to be too frustrating for us to wrestle with overwritten set pieces month after month after month. And on top of THAT... the Pathfinder Society Scenarios now pretty much fill the niche of "short adventure" for us (although they're about twice the size of a typical set piece).

Senior Editor/Fiction Editor

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Hey everybody!

While you're welcome to keep posting your opinions and ideas--feedback is always useful!--the Adventure Path team has gotten together and come up with a solution that we *hope* will satisfy a bunch of folks from both the "hooray for fiction" and "hooray for directly applicable adventure material" camps. I think we're going to keep the idea under our hats for a bit as we get more specifics hammered out, but I can say that we're all really excited, and that if all goes as planned, you should see some changes coming to this part of the book after Wrath of the Righteous. So thanks again for all the feedback, and stay tuned!


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber
James Sutter wrote:

Hey everybody!

While you're welcome to keep posting your opinions and ideas--feedback is always useful!--the Adventure Path team has gotten together and come up with a solution that we *hope* will satisfy a bunch of folks from both the "hooray for fiction" and "hooray for directly applicable adventure material" camps. I think we're going to keep the idea under our hats for a bit as we get more specifics hammered out, but I can say that we're all really excited, and that if all goes as planned, you should see some changes coming to this part of the book after Wrath of the Righteous. So thanks again for all the feedback, and stay tuned!

Veeeery interesting. Looking forward to seeing the changes! In my opinion, any change will be for the better.

Waiting till 2014 is quite a long time though. Any chance of getting a hint or preview in a few months when you've got the details finalized?


Wow. Awesome to hear! I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys have come up with for next year.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Waiting is part of the customer's job, alas... ;-P

We might talk a bit more about these changes come Paizocon or Gen Con... but for now, it's way too early to start talking about anything associated with an Adventure Path that's just under a year away.


Ooooooooooooh!

Paizo Employee Developer

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Oh no! Sutter spilled the beans! ;)


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James Sutter wrote:
While you're welcome to keep posting your opinions and ideas--feedback is always useful! (...) So thanks again for all the feedback, and stay tuned!

This is exactly why we all love Paizo. People have suggestions, ideas and you guys listen to us! Absolutely great! Thanks.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

The maps are fine as they are and I enjoy the stories!


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Count me in for In-World fiction that can double as a handout.

Found books, histories, plays, whatever.

That'd be so much cooler than straight fiction, IMO.

The Exchange

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Adam Daigle wrote:
Oh no! Sutter spilled the beans! ;)

It's ok, they are under his hat.

I'm intrigued by this announcement, but I'm more impressed by how, yet again, Paizo shows that it really listens to its customers.


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James Sutter wrote:

Hey everybody!

While you're welcome to keep posting your opinions and ideas--feedback is always useful!--the Adventure Path team has gotten together and come up with a solution that we *hope* will satisfy a bunch of folks from both the "hooray for fiction" and "hooray for directly applicable adventure material" camps. I think we're going to keep the idea under our hats for a bit as we get more specifics hammered out, but I can say that we're all really excited, and that if all goes as planned, you should see some changes coming to this part of the book after Wrath of the Righteous. So thanks again for all the feedback, and stay tuned!

Thank you so much James, and to the entire team responsible for the Adventure Paths. This is why Paizo is such an amazing company: you listen to feedback and act on it, try new things and adapt to an ever-changing environment. I have never experienced this level of creator-customer interaction before, and it's one of the many reasons why I keep coming back to buy your products :)


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I'm looking forward to the change. Thanks for doing your best to please everyone. I know it's not easy ;) but it is much appreciated

Silver Crusade

Can't wait to see what you have come up with!

Sczarni

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James Sutter wrote:

Hey everybody!

While you're welcome to keep posting your opinions and ideas--feedback is always useful!--the Adventure Path team has gotten together and come up with a solution that we *hope* will satisfy a bunch of folks from both the "hooray for fiction" and "hooray for directly applicable adventure material" camps. I think we're going to keep the idea under our hats for a bit as we get more specifics hammered out, but I can say that we're all really excited, and that if all goes as planned, you should see some changes coming to this part of the book after Wrath of the Righteous. So thanks again for all the feedback, and stay tuned!

Well, neat! I still think that a survey would be a good idea, though. Surely the ratio of opinions on this particular thread isn't an accurate representation of the entire AP subscriber base.

Silver Crusade

Well It looks like I am probably a bit late to the party.

I happen to like the fiction. I read it. I also read the Pathfinder Tales novel series. For me I find the fiction an enjoyable read. I remember I enjoyed reading Eando Kline's adventures and being able to find the Little easter egg he uncovered. I also enjoyed reading about the Druid in Legacy of fire...others.

So I happen to like the Fiction section and I look forward to it.

Just my two cents


James Sutter wrote:

Hey everybody!

While you're welcome to keep posting your opinions and ideas--feedback is always useful!--the Adventure Path team has gotten together and come up with a solution that we *hope* will satisfy a bunch of folks from both the "hooray for fiction" and "hooray for directly applicable adventure material" camps. I think we're going to keep the idea under our hats for a bit as we get more specifics hammered out, but I can say that we're all really excited, and that if all goes as planned, you should see some changes coming to this part of the book after Wrath of the Righteous. So thanks again for all the feedback, and stay tuned!

That idea in a way fills me with some degree of dread - it sounds like being hammered out the same way as the proverbial "compromise by boardmeeting". Seems very hard to apply fiction material (unless written pretty exclusively by the paizo staff) to custom fit the world of Golarion ? Otherwise, you would have people unaligned to the system and world shaping it... which might not be the holy grail either.

I do feel slightly depressed about it after JJ first stated that the fiction part "had to stay" for marketing purposes, and now some ramifications for the Adventure paths supposedly exists ?

ok, we will see what happens in 2014 (and what is leaked about it beforehand )... but... design by comitee ? *shiver* and...

*THINK POSITIVELY*

Senior Editor/Fiction Editor

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vikingson wrote:
James Sutter wrote:

Hey everybody!

While you're welcome to keep posting your opinions and ideas--feedback is always useful!--the Adventure Path team has gotten together and come up with a solution that we *hope* will satisfy a bunch of folks from both the "hooray for fiction" and "hooray for directly applicable adventure material" camps. I think we're going to keep the idea under our hats for a bit as we get more specifics hammered out, but I can say that we're all really excited, and that if all goes as planned, you should see some changes coming to this part of the book after Wrath of the Righteous. So thanks again for all the feedback, and stay tuned!

That idea in a way fills me with some degree of dread - it sounds like being hammered out the same way as the proverbial "compromise by boardmeeting". Seems very hard to apply fiction material (unless written pretty exclusively by the paizo staff) to custom fit the world of Golarion ? Otherwise, you would have people unaligned to the system and world shaping it... which might not be the holy grail either.

I do feel slightly depressed about it after JJ first stated that the fiction part "had to stay" for marketing purposes, and now some ramifications for the Adventure paths supposedly exists ?

ok, we will see what happens in 2014 (and what is leaked about it beforehand )... but... design by comitee ? *shiver* and...

*THINK POSITIVELY*

While I totally understand the fears about "design by committee," that sort of creative compromise and collaboration is exactly what gives Pathfinder its strength. You've already got Jacobs, Rob, Daigle, me, Wes, and to some extent Erik working together to make the adventure paths go--and that's just the development of the ideas! While some pieces--such as the adventure--are able to be developed by a single person, there's a lot of discussion that goes into even that. And of course every article is written by a freelancer, who's usually out of house.

So yeah, corralling it all and making it synch up is difficult... but our new Top Secret Plan shouldn't be any more difficult, and has us all really excited about the possibilities. Hopefully you'll like it, too!

And that's all I can say about that until probably Paizocon. :)


vikingson wrote:
Seems very hard to apply fiction material (unless written pretty exclusively by the paizo staff) to custom fit the world of Golarion ? Otherwise, you would have people unaligned to the system and world shaping it... which might not be the holy grail either.

These are called freelancers. They already happen. Dave Gross and Kevin Andrew Murphy are two of them, and I wholeheartedly approve, so far, of their work (even if I disagree with KAM, at least, in a number of discussions!).

It seems like the only difference is that now it has something related to the AP itself, which... doesn't really seem to be a problem, to me, if they can do it well.

EDIT: ninja'd by Mr. Sutter!


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James Jacobs wrote:

Waiting is part of the customer's job, alas... ;-P

Yeah, but the wait following [singsong]"I've got a se-cret!"[/singsong] is the worst part of the job. :)

But seriously: it does sometimes feel like ignorance would be bliss regarding products/events not available in the near future, but you can't have a company that's responsive/communicative and that keeps its customers in the dark about what's on the horizon. Given the choice...thanks for keeping in touch.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

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I used to read it. I do so less often now. I want to keep fiction, but want it revamped. Reading about Koriah's earlier adventures would have been better than a tale in Riddleport that has nothing to do with the Shattered Star. Cutting the fiction down to 5 installments and getting an in-world piece like Sixfold Trials of Larazod or Zudinger's Picnic every 6th volume would be swell, too.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

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Alright sorry if this has already been suggested but forget a map give me more extras related to the AP I'm working with, the stories are fine but I resent the space they take up that can be filled with more setting info, or more unique NPCS or heck alternate endings. I would literally take just anbout any content related beck to the AP in place of the fiction.

You have a comic line and novels that's where you're fiction goes...

The Exchange

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I am astounded as usual at Paizo's quick thinking and ability to hear and accept any sort of feedback from anyone who is willing to share it with them. This thread is one of those cases, of which Iv'e already seen many, where the Paizo team would see a discussion, go "hmmm" and use it as a base to create something better than what was before.

Never, in any other place, have I seen a company as large as Paizo showing that kind of mobility. Truly makes me proud to be a Paizo fan :)

(I don't know what the Jameses and their fellow designers came up with but I have confidance that it'll be cool)


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Lord Snow wrote:
Truly makes me proud to be a Paizo fan :)

Same here.

Senior Editor/Fiction Editor

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Lord Snow wrote:


Never, in any other place, have I seen a company as large as Paizo showing that kind of mobility. Truly makes me proud to be a Paizo fan :)

(I don't know what the Jameses and their fellow designers came up with but I have confidance that it'll be cool)

Aww, thanks, folks! And to turn it right around--knowing that there are people in the audience who have that sort of confidence in us a truly amazing thing. It's easy to think of this as a business, but when you get right down to it, we're just storytellers, and you all are supporting us and letting us do what we love. We'll do everything we can to continue to earn that trust, and listening is the easiest part!


brock, no the other one... wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:
Oh no! Sutter spilled the beans! ;)

It's ok, they are under his hat.

I'm intrigued by this announcement, but I'm more impressed by how, yet again, Paizo shows that it really listens to its customers.

Here, here!

I may on occasion post like a grumpy old wolf but I do really appreciate how involved everyone at Paizo is in the boards. Not only the creative team but freelancers, 3rd party publishers, etc. It is really a great environment that fosters a healthy exchange of ideas and dialogue. It is rare to encounter such a strong community online and it starts with Paizo. Thank you...

=Dan

Shadow Lodge

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Dave Gross wrote:
So often the fiction I most want to read--or write--is something that occurs to me only after I see the AP. For instance, after I read CotCT, the AP story I'd most like to write is The Adventures of Blackjack.

This needed to be quoted again.

I was fully on board the "axe the fiction" wagon, until I saw this.

Pulp-fiction by Dave Gross about Blackjack? The Stag-Lord in his early years? Shalelu? Ameiko? Nualia? Baron Drelev/Pavetta/Quintessa and how that happened?

I shiver at the thought of how absolutely awesome this would be.

If the fiction is also such that it's all something a DC20 Knowledge (Local) check would produce for my players. Just, wow.

This shouldn't be that hard? If the plan is to have very cohesive NPC allies and villains, and they are identified months in advance in the planning stage - couldn't the fiction actually tell short stories about these people's backgrounds?

Grand Lodge

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To me the fiction in the AP books is just wasted pages. I've tried to read some of them and didn't care for it. I see it as filler. I'm glad at least some of you enjoy it.

If the fiction were relevant, something I could hand out to the players for background info, it might be a little better, but I would still rather have that space dedicated to something more useful like maps, NPC strategies, DM background info, etc.


Skull and Shackles is the only AP I've read in its entirety (or at all, for that matter.) I've played through Shackled City and am currently playing Serpent Skull.

Budget-wise, $120 for 5 of us to participate in group entertainment for over a year works out to less than $2/mth ea. (If you ignore the overhead of core books.) That's bang for the buck for sure, so long as the product does what it's supposed to: Bring a party of x many characters from level 1 to x.

Still, I can definitely relate to the OP's request. The issue for me is not so much the fiction as it is the whole back third/half of a product labelled as an Adventure Path. I confess I was a little crestfallen when I figured out that 30-50% of the product was only thematically related, to varying degrees, to the actual adventure. I forced myself to read the whole product - sorry to say I was nodding off more than once and it was not at the fiction. I found myself thinking, "What's this doing here? Didn't these people even read the adventure!?"

Having gone through the AP back halves again, I admit that the 50% assessment is not as bad as I first thought. I realize the AP is a special king of product; not just the adventure but the whole compaing, almost. Anything in the back half I could plug-and-play into the adventure as optionally modular components that helps bring sandbox to railroads I was quite happy with. Anything else I branded, "stuff".

Of all the "stuff" in Skull and Shackles, the fiction is what I found the most enjoyable. My wife also enjoyed it. Robin D. Laws' series was compelling. It most definitely was not AP-centric nor even something that would easily be converted to a PC adventure and I'm more than okay with that. The Shackles setting was still excellently evoked and I loved the take on sahuagin. Until reading that series, sahuagin were just walking sushi to me. Robin D. Laws taught me to respect them. The protagonist wielded a nice magic weapon that would break a campaign but was cool to see in execution. In fact, the fiction was better than "stuff", in Skull and Shackles at any rate. It featured examples of adventuring in a coastal settlement, an island, underwater and on deck. It had a cast that displayed the alignment melting pot of the Shackles, with different brands of evil, greed and perhaps even heroism.

I don't need or even want the fiction to be AP-specific, other than thematically appropriate. The important NPCs are already suitably developed. As another posted, I'd much rather see actual adventure than have to read through prose to get to it.

As another mentioned, I'd be okay with just dropping the non-adventure articles if they did not specifically relate to the AP. And I don't mean so long as they are thematically appropriate, I mean so long as they could actually be plugged into the adventure without a great undertaking on the GM's part. I can homebrew for free. For $120, I'm not buying it by accident; I want to use it.

If dropping the esoteric material would reduce the page count and drop the price, I'd sooner see that. Given the economics I painted earlier, I'd pay the same price for just the adventure component because it does deliver on bringing a party of x player to x level and is fun! :-) If dropping the page count/material is not really an option, then I'm getting what I pay for plus some material of variably esoteric value. No harm there.

In a nutshell: Adventure over anything else. If the "anything else" portion is there to stay, then fiction - as it is: thematically appropriate and original (heavens please not tie-in adventure NPC backstories or origins*) - over material that is not directly related to the adventure.

It has been said that more adventure per installment is just not feasible. I wonder what impact, if any, a successful venture with the new module format will have on the AP line. 64pp-modules, especially series of them, could be intriguing...

I'm just speculating that the secret development regarding the AP format might be something along the lines of a cable package. You subscribe to 96pp worth of stuff and you decide the content! You get the adventure installment plus 4 of 7 types of modular components. Close? ;-)

That's my late contribution to the discussion. Please add my +1 to the Paizo folks' proven track record of listening, responding and delivering.

* unless it was part of a player handout to enhance the experience. That's one thing I'd really like to see more of: Player Handouts! :-D

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

(Eyes the thread necro with narrowed eyes but posts anyways ... curse how busy spring always is ...)

Okay, so I ground through this thread and think I understand the ground rules:

1. We're talking about roughtly 6 pages of material.
2. It can't be tied to the current AP volume for logistical reasons.
3. The adventure itself can't get bigger due to time restraints.

There's also some other things that seem to be restrictions:

James Sutter: If we get rid of the fiction, we must replace it with something that will draw in as many or more people than we lose.

James Jacobs: We can't add a new article because there aren't enough resources to support a new article. Thus, it would have to be extensions of existing articles.

Which would seem to imply that we're left with 3 choices:

  • Leave the fiction.
  • Replace the fiction with other fiction.
  • Expand one or more of the non-adventure elements by 6 pages.

A curious design space.

Now, I entirely agree that having fiction completely unrelated to the adventure path is less than enthralling, especially given the quality of the novels (sorry, I hate reading things online and won't read the web fiction unless it gets put in a short story collection - which, I might add, is a *marvelous* idea).

And I like the concept of having fiction that's related in the adventure path.

So, in that light, a couple of leading questions:

  • While the actual adventure detail is not known ahead of time, I'm assuming that the general plot and location are known.
  • I imagine the topics of the (typically 3) support articles are known.
  • I'm less certain how well known the contents of the bestiary are.

So, what would be of maximum usefulness given the constraints is fiction that uses the material, locations, and even possibly some of the plot elements of the adventure path.

Consider, for example, Shards of Sin. It's not a spoiler to give the blurb:

Shards of Sin wrote:
In Varisia’s bustling frontier city of Magnimar, the Pathfinder Society’s newest lodge recruits a team of rookie Pathfinders to track down rogue agent Natalya Vancaskerkin—who also happens to be one of the Varisian criminals known as the Sczarni. Yet when these heroes track down the missing woman, they find far more than a Pathfinder on the run, becoming embroiled in a swiftly expanding hunt for a fragmented artifact from the ancient empire of Thassilon—a quest that will take them to some of the most dangerous corners of Varisia.

We have articles on significant NPCs, treasures of the adventure, the Sihedron and its fragments, and the bestiary. Clearly we can't depend on the NPC or treasure articles, but it would seem that we ought to be able to count on at least one or two creatures from the bestiary and something from the subject matter article.

Thus, we can imagine a spec for fiction in Shards of Sin: write a 6-page (what's that, abou5 5,000 words?) story that references the Sihedron or a shard, is set in or near Magnimar, and which includes a bishap agathion, a fleshdreg, the Malfesh Monster, and/or a skyvader (or whichever were known to be present).

Sure, that's a slightly tougher assignment than "write part one of a 6-part series somewhere in Golarion," but it's a lot more relevant. *

It's possible some minor details of the creature might be wrong. Chalk it up to artistic license or call it a "variation." Or give it a different name entirely in the story and save it for later. Either way, having someone tracking the Malfesh Monster outside of Magnimar and hearing rumors from a bishop agathion that someone has found a map guiding the way to part of the Sihedron would definitely tie into Shards of Sin pretty well from the viewpoint of setting flavor. I'm not saying the spec should say that (far too restrictive in my opinion), but think of it like LEGOs; give the author a bunch of pieces and say "hey, use at least a few of these, other than that use your judgement."

* Yes, I'm sure the actual request is a bit more complex than that, but you know what I mean :)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Top 10 things that'd be better then 6 pages of so-so fiction barely related to the AP.

10) Maps as the thread suggests more detailed maps of the region or dungeons would be nice.

9) You could give 2 pages for ad space if it'd drop costs back down.

8) More space on the AP rules you guys seem to like to add, kingmaker in particular could have used this but those caravan combat rules in Jade Regent were in particular bad...

7) Design notes on the BBE

6) Alternate endings because why the hell not

5) more magic items

4) more monsters

3) more room for your designers to "play"

2) materiel liek what you did with the 3rd KM for other posssible encounters...

1) A longer side trek that's completely optional.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

GM_Solspiral wrote:
1) A longer side trek that's completely optional.

Some good ideas... but this one in particular is not an option. We tried this before during Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire, and they were NOT that popular at all. Furthermore, they ended up being VERY complicated to pull off. In this case, two strikes is all it needs to be out.

Dark Archive

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Personally, I'd rather have 2 more pages of ad space and some extra detailed maps of locales in the AP setting. I really like world building and maps go a long ways towards fleshing out the story and the Adventure path.

I wouldn't mind sacrificing the fiction which I don't read, and don't find meaningfully interesting and replacing it with good ads and good gazetteer material with maps!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

GM_Solspiral wrote:

Top 10 things that'd be better then 6 pages of so-so fiction barely related to the AP.

10) Maps as the thread suggests more detailed maps of the region or dungeons would be nice.

9) You could give 2 pages for ad space if it'd drop costs back down.

8) More space on the AP rules you guys seem to like to add, kingmaker in particular could have used this but those caravan combat rules in Jade Regent were in particular bad...

7) Design notes on the BBE

6) Alternate endings because why the hell not

5) more magic items

4) more monsters

3) more room for your designers to "play"

2) materiel liek what you did with the 3rd KM for other posssible encounters...

1) A longer side trek that's completely optional.

With the exception of 9, everything you mention requires design, development and/or art resources that are either more costly or at least harder to allocate than those devoted to fiction.

As for 9, ads are indeed cheaper and easier than fiction, but wouldn't allow us to reduce the price of the product. They'd save a little money and a lot of effort, but we don't *sell* ads, so they don't turn into ad revenue.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Arnwyn wrote:

Paizo has an irrational love of fiction in the APs. It's not going away.

But I'm still going to say it anyways: the fiction in the APs is a massive waste of space (especially painful when you keep hearing about "page count" issues that have demonstrably caused problems in past APs).

But yeah, I've resigned myself to the fact that the fiction is here to stay. *sigh*

Late to the party. When they say they run out of space so they cut material during the Paizo Con panel podcasts, the inclusion of the fiction in the AP, which they just increased the cost of, irritates me. It doesn't help me, I don't read it. Add in the fact I don't use their world. I want game material in my game books. Looking forward to seeing the changes, if any in Wrath of the Righteous.

Sovereign Court

C Shepard wrote:
Arnwyn wrote:

Paizo has an irrational love of fiction in the APs. It's not going away.

But I'm still going to say it anyways: the fiction in the APs is a massive waste of space (especially painful when you keep hearing about "page count" issues that have demonstrably caused problems in past APs).

But yeah, I've resigned myself to the fact that the fiction is here to stay. *sigh*

Late to the party. When they say they run out of space so they cut material during the Paizo Con panel podcasts, the inclusion of the fiction in the AP, which they just increased the cost of, irritates me. It doesn't help me; I don't read it. Add in the fact that I don't use their world. I want game material in my game books. Looking forward to seeing the changes, if any in Wrath of the Righteous.

So, James Jacobs is lying when he says they need to stick to a certain AP page-count?

Isn't it possible that a little natural fluctuation is referred to in the panel podcast.

Honestly, if you don't want Golarion stuff, including the fiction, I don't know why you'd subscribe.

I think a lot of us are buying this much game stuff to read. If I wanted stuff to play, I could end my subscription today and play for years with what I have. Using Golarion and having a variety in the content makes it more readable. I think that's one reason why the add-on adventures weren't popular. They might have been adventure content but they didn't add to the 'story' of the AP for all of us readers.

These are just my suppositions, obviously.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
GeraintElberion wrote:


I think a lot of us are buying this much game stuff to read. If I wanted stuff to play, I could end my subscription today and play for years with what I have. Using Golarion and having a variety in the content makes it more readable. I think that's one reason why the add-on adventures weren't popular. They might have been adventure content but they didn't add to the 'story' of the AP for all of us readers.

From reading the feedback at the time, I think you're right. They were geographically linked, but didn't fit with the AP as neatly as people anticipated (from memory, anyhow).


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On an interesting note, for those of you who want adventure content and more maps with no fiction, the Modules line is starting to look real good.

Senior Editor/Fiction Editor

Just a note that we *will* be experimenting with a new format/type of content for the journal, but that it won't start until next February (after Wrath of the Righteous finishes). Stay tuned!

Dark Archive

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James Sutter wrote:
Just a note that we *will* be experimenting with a new format/type of content for the journal, but that it won't start until next February (after Wrath of the Righteous finishes). Stay tuned!

Really hope your not changing it to much since I quite like the fiction as it stands right now (Only suggestion would be more coloured artwork like that found in the story blogs but thats about it.)


To be honest, I'm not fond of the fiction myself. Additional maps, larger maps of specific rooms, that sort of thing would be of more use really. You could also expand on some of the NPCs for the GM to get a better gist of things for possible RP purposes.

Liberty's Edge

I am thinking my suggestion (in-universe histories, journals, gazeteers, treatises) may be what they are going with. I am excited to find out.

Think the books from Skyrim and Fable


Evil Lincoln wrote:
On an interesting note, for those of you who want adventure content and more maps with no fiction, the Modules line is starting to look real good.

I noticed that, actually, and I approve. The modules line is starting to look really interesting!

-The Gneech


GeraintElberion wrote:
... I don't know why you'd subscribe.

Considering the well-known value of a pre-made adventure campaign, I find that very hard to believe.


Being relatively new to Pathfinder I haven't used any of the AP modules yet.

What I would say though is that generally if there is fiction in the module I don't especially mind but I don't find it especially useful, mainly because it often contains spoilers. I would rather that if there is fiction in the module it is material that can be made accessible to the players without ruining the adventure, either as background material or as things that can be released to the players during the adventure.

That's my 2¢.

Peet


First off, since the stupendously good Eando Kline story I've lost interest in the fiction. But the main problem is that I've forgotten the story / characters by the time a month rolls by and a new chapter comes out.

If the fiction has to stay, how about a 'what has gone before' paragraph at the beginning of every instalment?


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Joining late, but here's my 3 electrum:

I buy RPG products to deal with a specific need - I don't have time to write my own adventures/encounters. When I was in my teens and twenties, I did...now I don't. The number of fantasy/science fiction books and anthologies that are written every year is vast, and the number of really good books written is much smaller, but still large. The fiction you're including is not bad, also not consistently fantastic - why not let us pick up our fiction at the library (whether real or "E")?

I don't need my auto mechanic to share his latest sonnet with me, and I don't need my landlord to show me his newest dance cycle. While the fiction is clearly more tied to the adventures, when I want fiction I'll buy some. I want to pay Paizo for high quality RPG stuff.

I've mentioned this in another thread, but here goes - to me all the 'embroidery' that isn't core RPG stuff just continues to make me worry that Paizo is so busy 'growing the brand' that they're losing sight of the needs of actual DMs and players. But this may be 95% based in my current aggravation about map issues.


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Pathfinder Card Game, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
James Todd wrote:
all the 'embroidery' that isn't core RPG stuff

The fiction plays an important, and unique role for me; it offers a sense of the setting unlike anything else. This sense helps me GM the material much better. In my case the fiction is "core RPG stuff."

Sovereign Court

James, the fiction has been in APs from the start and has nothing to do with growing the brand.

I am sure there are plenty of people who feel the same as you but I don't see what you would gain from the AP volumes being a few pages shorter.

If it was just cut then fans like myself would lose out.

I'm guessing that you're not obsessed over slightly lighter books or evilly determined to reduce the pleasure of strangers.

I think this thread shows the paucity of alternatives to fiction.
All anyone seems to recommend is maps (too expensive) or longer adventure (not a realistic option).

I buy the APs to read adventures, setting information and fiction. But I'm not calling for that bestiary to be cut.

The Exchange

So IIRC it was said earlier in this thread that the new AP will introduce a change of some sort to how fiction works in the AP. However looking at the product description, it looks like we are just going to get another regular story.

Am I missing anything?

EDIT: ah, yes, I missed the word "after" in Sutter's post. My bad.

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