The Perfect Fighting Style?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

think I may have found a very powerful way to combine the three basic fighting styles, TH, TWF, S&B. I'm not sure of its legality though. I am currently speaking to my GM about it, and thought that it couldn't hurt to also see if anyone else knows why what I'm thinking wont work.

The pieces,

Quickdraw shield form Ultimate Equipment.
Improved Shield Bash feat
Quickdraw feat
TWF feat

To start with you wear your quick draw shield on your back. Then for your first attack you swing Two Handed. Then you let go with one hand and don the shield as a free action. Once the shield is donned you attack with it using TWF and Improved Shield Bash.

With the addition of ITWF you could put the shield away as a free action, and then attack Two Handed style with your sword again. Let go of it, and don the shield and bash with it.

I'm pretty sure I'm missing something. My gut tells me that this should not work.

Shadow Lodge

does it work? technically yes, but most people would see it as an abuse of the rules. if your gm allows it, then you should have fun with this character.

but i will add that you could siply take one of the many races that use natural attacks with the mouth or beak to achieve the same amount of damage.


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take 2 levels of alchemist to acquire an extra hand and you dont need to play with quickdraw shenaningans. two handing your sword and then shield bashing is perfectly legal at that point.

Liberty's Edge

Quick draw shields are light shields, which count as light weapons, which in turn cannot be used in two hands.


Clever, but you're going to get laughed at.

Grand Lodge

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There already is an existing way to do this without the hassle. You can TWF with a 2h and armor spikes.

Grand Lodge

Kiinyan wrote:
There already is an existing way to do this without the hassle. You can TWF with a 2h and armor spikes.

But that doesn't have a shield....


Correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am. But don't you lose the AC bonus provided by the shield, if you use it to attack with?


quoted from the pfsrd:

Quote:

Improved Shield Bash (Combat)

You can protect yourself with your shield, even if you use it to attack.

Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency

Benefit: When you perform a shield bash, you may still apply the shield's shield bonus to your AC.

Normal: Without this feat, a character that performs a shield bash loses the shield's shield bonus to AC until his next turn (see Equipment).


That is an extremely complicated way to do this.

A much simpler one is to use a Heavy Spiked Shield in two hands and use Two-Weapon Fighting with an Unarmed Strike or Spiked Armor.


Even better is to two hand a shield. Then combo shield slam with spiked destroyer (free attack with armor spikes when you bull rush.)


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

The point is to generate the attacks that TWF gets, which just wielding a heavy shield would not let a person do.

Eventually a fighter could get up to 4 attacks with his weapon 2handed 3 attacks with his shield + any additional shield attacks from critting, and even more damage from rending.

Edit:
Now to get back on topic. I don't care about how good the idea is. Just if it is legal. Which I now think it is by strictly RAW. So most PFS gms will probably allow it.


I don't believe it is legal to use the same hand (your offhand) to attack with different weapons.
It is spelled out concerning natural attacks, but the same should apply with weapon attacks, otherwise you allow people to make two weapon fighting using only one hand.

While some like the two-handed shield cheese, it would require your GM to allow you wearing armor made for a different size category than you are.


What does two handing a shield have to do with armor size? In case you did not know a heavy shield is a one handed weapon. all one handed weapons can be two handed.


Stome wrote:
What does two handing a shield have to do with armor size? In case you did not know a heavy shield is a one handed weapon. all one handed weapons can be two handed.

What they are, are a matter of debate.

They text for shields (as an armor item) allows for shield bash, and further states that "Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon".
"Used this way..." suggest that they aren't in themselves a weapon. As such, you need to be able to wear the shield to bash with it. You cannot wear a large shield, since armor must be your size.


And? they are listed in the weapons section also. Your point is? And again. Where the heck are you getting the "large" shield thing from? It in no way needs to be large. BOTH light and heavy shields are still sized medium.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

If I understand the previous discussions on the topic. It would be legal. But it wouldn't bypass the TWF penalties. Those penalties apply as soon as you declare you're going this routine. And you have to declare it. Not:
"I attack two handed. Is it dead?"
"No"
I draw my shield and slam it. Is it dead?"


Stome wrote:
And? they are listed in the weapons section also. Your point is? And again. Where the heck are you getting the "large" shield thing from? It in no way needs to be large. BOTH light and heavy shields are still sized medium.

Well the large part was just me mixing my thoughts up with another topic...

Nonetheless, two-handing shields is something that requires a very selective RAW-interpretation.


HaraldKlak wrote:
Stome wrote:
And? they are listed in the weapons section also. Your point is? And again. Where the heck are you getting the "large" shield thing from? It in no way needs to be large. BOTH light and heavy shields are still sized medium.

Well the large part was just me mixing my thoughts up with another topic...

Nonetheless, two-handing shields is something that requires a very selective RAW-interpretation.

Alright fair enough it happens. I was truthfully very confused. But I disagree about it being selective.

My guess is you are on the "Can be used off-hand" part of the item description. The thing is Can does not = must. That and off hand is a state that only happens while TWFing. It has already been stated by a dev you of course can attack with the shield and not your say long sword.

So you could also attack with it as your main weapon and a light weapon as your off-hand. Or two hand it. Just like any other one handed weapon.

More to the point there are plenty of weapons that state you "can" do something. That does not mean you can not use it any any way other then is stated.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Matthew Morris wrote:

If I understand the previous discussions on the topic. It would be legal. But it wouldn't bypass the TWF penalties. Those penalties apply as soon as you declare you're going this routine. And you have to declare it. Not:

"I attack two handed. Is it dead?"
"No"
I draw my shield and slam it. Is it dead?"

Oh of course. You wouldn't be able to bypass any of the penalties until level 11 where you take the feat that does that for the shield. I believe it is shield mastery.

Nice to see that it looks completely legal.

Silver Crusade

Mahtobedis wrote:

**basic TWF omitted**

With the addition of ITWF you could put the shield away as a free action, and then attack Two Handed style with your sword again. Let go of it, and don the shield and bash with it.

I'm pretty sure I'm missing something. My gut tells me that this should not work.

PRD wrote:


Two-Weapon Fighting
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon...

Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
You are skilled at fighting with two weapons.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: In addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a –5 penalty.
Normal: Without this feat, you can only get a single extra attack with an off-hand weapon.

The extra attacks you get from two-weapon fighting are from the weapon wielded in your secondary (off) hand. I'll leave the possibility of two-weapon fighting with a weapon wielded in two hands to others, but you cannot return to your primary weapon to deal additional attacks beyond your iteratives.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

@Desolate

I think it comes down to order of operations. Let's say it's a +6 BAB fighter.

What he wants to do (again, if I'm reading him right)

Primary (two handed) weapon +6/+1 (quick) draw shield, +6.

At higher levels with 'sheathing' the shield as a quick action it becomes.

Two handed weapon (quick)draw shield, bash, (quick)sheath shield, two handed weapon.

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