Dual wielding bastard sword fighter.


Advice

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Pendagast wrote:
IVr got an awesome idea! I could totally change your entire character concept and you could fight with two light picks as a halfling and use TWF and weapon finesse, yea yea, thats such a better idea than anything you can come up with on your own.... yea yea.

er, who exactly are you replying to?

Silver Crusade

To get the most out of you character, as he's been built, you're going to need to assign each of your next 3 Stat boosts(levels 8, 12, 16) to dexterity in order to qualify for Greater Two Weapon Fighting by level 16. In order to get the most (damage wise) out of this character you may have to make liberal use of the fighter's ability to retrain.

I advise against an archetype, with your character you'll get more benefit from weapon and armor training as is then you will from substituting. I've found most of the Fighter archetypes to be for advanced level dipping, or very specialized/focused character concepts.

I read above you have Dodge, this is an ok feat at low levels, but should be re-trained at level 8 - as +1 AC at that level means a lot less - consider quick draw, as that was a feat you were wanting to pick up anyway.

Feat Selections:
These are only suggestions to maximize your damage, look it over and choose what fits for you.
1 Exotic Weapon Prof: Bastard Sword
1BF Weapon Focus Bastard Sword
2BF Power Attack
3 Furious Focus
4BF Weapon Spec: Bastard Sword
5 Quick Draw
6BF TWF
7 Double Slice
8BF Greater Weapon Focus
9 Improved TWF
10BF Hammer the Gap <- I prefer this to Two Weapon Rend as it offers bonus damage to each additional successful strike, increased on crits
11 Two Weapon Rend, just cause.
12BF Greater Weapon Spec
13 ?{toughness, maybe)
14BF
15 ?
16BF Greater TWF

Obviously as a 5th level you may already have some of these feats in other slots, shuffle as necessary

Again, these are just suggestions to make the most of you concept, as is, it'd be very different if we were building this from the ground up =D

And yes, get Sun Sword(s) as soon as you can. Best method I've ever encountered is getting a fellow player to craft them at cost.

Also, avoid the different sized weapons, the size penalty is cumulative with other penalties. So making a small Bastard Sword will make the -4/-4 only change to -2/-4. And the same applies for getting Large Sun Blades, as a medium creature, you go from -2/-2, 1d10/1d10 to -6/-6, 2d8/2d8. As a medium creature wielding large weapons they change a weapon category, and even though they count as shortswords, they're large short swords, so in your hands they caount as 1 handed weapons, not light.

General Fighter Advice:
Depending on how often you need to change rolls, your next Weapon Training should either be a Range Weapon (I'd go Bows for Composite Bow) or something that will help you in a grapple (Light Blades for dagger is a personal favorite, keep them in your boots, hehe) And don't underestimate the value of Mithril Armor, with your armor training and proficiencies you can wear anything and move at regular speed - you want it for the increased Maximum Dexterity Bonus, so that you can make the most of your high TWF requirements.


AndIMustMask wrote:
Byrdology wrote:
Make tiefling with the large arms racial ability. EWP let's you wield a large bastard sword, and a regular one in your off hand.

main problem is that while that removes the penalty for large weapons, it doesnt affect the penalties for a one-handed weapon in the off-hand.

also, the large bastard sword would still be a two-handed weapon despite the lack of penalties (because you're still a medium creature).

It does actually, a large creature treats a 1h weapon as light. EWP makes a bastard sword a 1h weapon. That's why if you can find a wiz to make enlarge person (with a spell craft check to apply only to arms) permanent, it would be the cheapest route. Large bastard sword in one hand, and regular with the lead blades spell as an enhancement to the off hand for 2d8 on both hands. Sun swords is expensive, and if you ever lose/ break one its even more so.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

A sun sword Large will be wieldable as a Large Short sword, not as a normal bastard sword.

The magic does what it does, not how you want to interpret it, even if it's not all that logical.

Seriously, the TWF thing sounds cool and is possible...but you're better off having the option of 2hf adn sword and shield, then always 2wf.

Btw, the Taldan falcata style allows you to get full weapon training when using buckler and falcata together. Perhaps your DM will let you adjust your style?

==Aelryinth


AndIMustMask wrote:
Pendagast wrote:
IVr got an awesome idea! I could totally change your entire character concept and you could fight with two light picks as a halfling and use TWF and weapon finesse, yea yea, thats such a better idea than anything you can come up with on your own.... yea yea.
er, who exactly are you replying to?

it wasnt a reply, it was a brilliant idea totally ignoring the OP! Brilliant!


I just skimmed over most of the posts and I think someone already said it but got ignored: I f you want to fight with two bastardswords use a small one for the offhand. That way you get less penalty for your mainhand and the weapon does only slightly less damage.

You would get a -2 penalty for wielding a wrong sized weapon for your offhand attacks but as it counts as a light weapon that would be offset by only getting the lesser TWF penalty. And your mainhand penalty goes down from -4 to -2.
As it is still a bastard sword your weapon focus and weapon training still apply. As would any weapon specialization you'd have.


A small bastard sword in the off-hand is, perhaps mechanically a good idea.

But it's still ultra-lame.

Get two weapon fighter archetype, it's nothing to be ashamed of if you didn't know about it.

Remember that exotic weapon proficiency doesn't give a plus to hit.


Byrdology wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:
Byrdology wrote:
Make tiefling with the large arms racial ability. EWP let's you wield a large bastard sword, and a regular one in your off hand.

main problem is that while that removes the penalty for large weapons, it doesnt affect the penalties for a one-handed weapon in the off-hand.

also, the large bastard sword would still be a two-handed weapon despite the lack of penalties (because you're still a medium creature).

It does actually, a large creature treats a 1h weapon as light. EWP makes a bastard sword a 1h weapon. That's why if you can find a wiz to make enlarge person (with a spell craft check to apply only to arms) permanent, it would be the cheapest route. Large bastard sword in one hand, and regular with the lead blades spell as an enhancement to the off hand for 2d8 on both hands. Sun swords is expensive, and if you ever lose/ break one its even more so.
Variant Tiefling Abilities wrote:
16. You have over-sized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty.
Superior Clutch Trait wrote:
Your hands not only are bigger than normal, but also have a strong grip useful for wielding large weapons. You gain a +1 trait bonus on damage rolls when using weapons intended for creatures of a larger size.

only things related to weapon size i can find in the blood of fiends book.

you're not actually large-sized--there's no mention of your size actually increasing or you being treated as such, only that you don't take the usual penalty, and the latter just gives you a bonus to damage for doing so, and is only available to oni-spawn tieflings.
you're still medium-sized, so you still have all the size/handedness limitations of a medium-sized creature, making that large-sized bastard sword a two-handed weapon with the EWP feat. that leaves you with no off-hand to wield the other bastard sword.
also, no mention of affecting offhand in any way, so that one-handed (youre not large-sized, it doesnt suddenly shrink) bastard sword would still incur the normal penalties even if you sprouted a third arm to wield it.

casting enlarge person still increases the size of your gear, so i'm not sure that'd change anything, because the swords would also get bigger when you draw them (i think).


Weapon Damage Increase Chart.

What will you normally be fighting? That will determine whether or not the Penalties are worth it or not.

I have a few builds based on this fighting style...

Silver Crusade

meatrace wrote:
IlleSapiens wrote:
It's not that I won't consider archtypes. It's that I didn't find out they existed until I was level two.
I know you don't want to "be that guy", but it seems like you're pretty new to a lot of aspects of the system. Doesn't hurt talking to your DM and asking him if he thinks its okay. *shrug*

If you were a player in my game and came to me with the explaintion that you didn't know about the archtypes and traits prior to build, AND I agree that it fit the charcter concept...I would let you re-work the character.

Its a GAME its suppose to be FUN, for everyone. I love seeing the sparkle in a players eye when they "get into" their character. Its better than the, dull lifeless look when they feel they are being oppressed by the GM.


Aelryinth wrote:

What you're looking for is a proto-Sun Sword.

Ask your DM if you can start building bastard sword up to be Sun Swords. The key thing is the feature that allows them to be wielded as Short swords, i.e. light in the off hand, which minimizes TWF penalties.

Then go to town.

==Aelryinth

By the time you have enough cash for 2 sun swords to dual wield you will be level 11 as a fighter. So take the Two Weapon Fighter Archetype. At level 11 you would be wielding 2 Bastard Swords with -1/-1 penalty. Get a Sash of the War Champion to get this ability at level 7 though clear with you GM first. Sash of the War Champion counts you figher level as 4 higher for Armor Training and Bravery. If you GM allows it to apply to powers that replace armor trainig you could get this at Level 7. No harm in asking but be prepard for no.


@ AndIMustAsk: my understanding is that the large arms trait lets you use weapons as if you are one size larger without all the other benefits of enlarge person. Because a bastard sword is wielded 1h with EWP then you can do as I described. A large greatsword however does have the handed ness issue. So no you are not a large creature, but yes you can wield large weapons with no penalty. Large arms, medium creature.

Grand Lodge

Gotta ask:

What the heck about the Bastard Sword is giving so many raging fan boners?

Someone care to explain?


It's a sword (an obviously phallic weapon). As such, it's slightly larger and more damaging than a regular one, without coming off as grotesque and requiring two hands. (as a greatsword)


Who has a Fan Boner for the Bastard Sword?

Grand Lodge

What about the Great Terbutje?

It is a 4-foot-long version of the Terbutje, a length of tempered wood, that has bits of shark teeth, obsidian, glass, or similar materials studded all along its length.

It is a 1d10 19-20/x2 Exotic One-handed weapon, that can be wielded with two hands as a martial weapon.

There is also a metal forged version.


voska66 wrote:
By the time you have enough cash for 2 sun swords to dual wield you will be level 11 as a fighter. So take the Two Weapon Fighter Archetype. At level 11 you would be wielding 2 Bastard Swords with -1/-1 penalty. Get a Sash of the War Champion to get this ability at level 7 though clear with you GM first. Sash of the War Champion counts you figher level as 4 higher for Armor Training and Bravery. If you GM allows it to apply to powers that replace armor trainig you could get this at Level 7. No harm in asking but be prepard for no.

I'd recommend just one Sun Blade for your offhand and a regular magic bastard sword for your mainhand. A regular +5 weapon is going to be cheaper than a Sun Blade and does more damage against most enemies.

Also, OP gets major cool points for doing this. I'm also a fan of twin-wielding bastard swords, and have two NPCs in the game I'm running that do so; one a fighter, the other a paladin.


Thalandar wrote:
meatrace wrote:
IlleSapiens wrote:
It's not that I won't consider archtypes. It's that I didn't find out they existed until I was level two.
I know you don't want to "be that guy", but it seems like you're pretty new to a lot of aspects of the system. Doesn't hurt talking to your DM and asking him if he thinks its okay. *shrug*

If you were a player in my game and came to me with the explaintion that you didn't know about the archtypes and traits prior to build, AND I agree that it fit the charcter concept...I would let you re-work the character.

Its a GAME its suppose to be FUN, for everyone. I love seeing the sparkle in a players eye when they "get into" their character. Its better than the, dull lifeless look when they feel they are being oppressed by the GM.

Lol, don't worry. She's far from oppressive. She's a really good and understanding DM who will give stuff if it makes sense, etc. I talked to her last night and didn't really have to argue the point for more than a couple sentences before she said okay, and just to make sure everything was in place correctly when doing it. But given some advice about armor training and such we'll see if I even do it.

I'll reply to all the other posts here later. At work and it's a bit busier than usual. @.@


Byrdology wrote:
@ AndIMustAsk: my understanding is that the large arms trait lets you use weapons as if you are one size larger without all the other benefits of enlarge person. Because a bastard sword is wielded 1h with EWP then you can do as I described. A large greatsword however does have the handed ness issue. So no you are not a large creature, but yes you can wield large weapons with no penalty. Large arms, medium creature.

unfortunately it doesn't say anything resembling that, so i'm inclined to disagree (i'd love if someone official could weigh in on this, because i'd love to be wrong and go off to make a horrendously terrifying size shenanigan character).

as written it just seems like you're (the tiefling, not you specifically) just a dude with mightier thews to strain than other people who aren't horribly mutated by their mixed heritage and shunned by society at large.

also, being treated as a large-sized character for weapon wielding would mean you could even use a huge-sized bastard sword as a two-handed weapon with just the feat. that'd be, what? 3d8+1.5x str damage at level 1? sounds pretty sweet for twohanded fighters, barbarians, paladins, etc. etc.


Variant Tiefling Abilities wrote:
16. You have over-sized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty.

Use Large weapons without penalty. Use a large 2h weapon without penalty. Use a large 1H weapon without penalty. If a large 1h weapon is now considered what equates to medium for you, then a 1h medium weapon would be considered light. Maybe I am confused by RAW vs RAI, but this does seem like a reasonable assumption.

The benefit/ balance of this trait (in my estimation) is that you can use weapons as a large creature (hence the no penalty as is written) without the str, con, and reach benefit of enlarge person.

Grand Lodge

That Tiefling ability does not change the handedness needed.

It removes penalties only.


Am I the only one that sees an issue with wielding twin bastard swords, 2 two-handed weapons? Yes it is legal but even with two-weapon fighting you are at -4,-4 and I would make it -4,-6 for wielding a two-handed weapon. Even to afford one Sun Sword at 55,000 GP at WBL you would need to be 15th level at 25% for weapons and you would only have that weapon.


Bastard Swords are 1-Handed.


If you're up for a character re-vamping and you're dead-set on twin bastard swords then you need to raise STR to 20 and dump DEX to 15. Basically, you're setting up for a -4/-4 penalty so you're gonna need all the STR you can get to help mitigate that. Also, as mentioned before, the Two Weapon Warrior archetype will be a natural fit for this PC.

/ about the DEX dump - for more off-hand attacks, you'll need to invest in a +2 DEX belt and then just scale it up. Shouldn't be too hard to acquire.


brvheart wrote:
Am I the only one that sees an issue with wielding twin bastard swords, 2 two-handed weapons? Yes it is legal but even with two-weapon fighting you are at -4,-4 and I would make it -4,-6 for wielding a two-handed weapon. Even to afford one Sun Sword at 55,000 GP at WBL you would need to be 15th level at 25% for weapons and you would only have that weapon.

This is when it's a good time to check your info before you post. Bastard swords can be used as 2-handed Martial weapons, but you have also the choice to use them as Exotic 1-handed weapons.

@OP:
The benefits of TWF archetype are really great. You can reduce armor penalties in so many other ways. Top of the head I can suggest a Mithral Breastplate for relatively cheap and good bonuses at low penalties.

What's harder is to remove so many penalties from your TWF. The archetype gives you is just so really handy.
9th, Doublestrike: As a standard action, make an attack with your primary and secondary weapons. Meaning you can charge and hit once with each weapon, already giving you an extra attack every round.

11th, Improved Balance: You can pick to reduce TWF penalties by -1. Or treat a one-handed weapon in your offhand as a light weapon to gain major penalty reduction. Reduced by a -1 at lvl 15th again. Penalties to use both weapons will be -1/-1, practically removed thanks to masterwork quality.

17th is the fun part though, every time you hit with both your weapons, you can disarm, sunder or trip as an immediate action that provokes no AoO.

The price isn't that steep considering special materials, special armors, and magic items.

Armor training raises your max Dex on armor, which shouldn't be an issue since you focus on Str and just got +3, easily fixed by mithril. You're not really a skill monkey while wearing full-plate, so the check penalty isn't that steep. The biggest bummer is the speed reduction and loss of weapon training for +1 atk and dmg, though it's personal taste, I personally love being able to use TWF in a way no other class can't rather than receiving flat stat bonuses, that's what I have feats and items for. Also, Mithral Breastplaaaaaaaaate ~


brvheart wrote:
Am I the only one that sees an issue with wielding twin bastard swords, 2 two-handed weapons? Yes it is legal but even with two-weapon fighting you are at -4,-4 and I would make it -4,-6 for wielding a two-handed weapon. Even to afford one Sun Sword at 55,000 GP at WBL you would need to be 15th level at 25% for weapons and you would only have that weapon.

Bastard swords are both one handed and two handed. It's why they're called bastard swords, or hand a half swords. Because they can be wielded either way. They're in between. You can wield them one handed as an exotic weapon, two handed as martial. ...or was it the other way around? Can't remember. So no, it wouldn't be -4, -6. It'd be -4, -4. Then with a sun blade it'd be -2, -2.


I personally have no idea why people are under the impression that the TWF archetype is good. The TWF archetype is only decent for low- to mid-level play. At higher levels, you will miss what you gave up for the archetype. What you give up is simple - weapon training.

Details on why normal fighter is better than TWF for a dual-wielder:

Spoiler:

Sure, the archetype has something that's almost, but not quite, weapon training for when you TWF. But, it's not weapon training - ergo, it doesn't work with gloves of dueling.

Those gloves basically cover the archetype perks of improved / perfect balance. These abilities translate to +3 to hit when dual-wielding 1H weapons. Or, the gloves give +2/+2 for a weapon group... uh huh. And if you go the sun blade route as suggested above (I wholeheartedly support this awesome idea btw), the archetype abilities give +2/+0, or the gloves give +2/+2. (This isn't even factoring the CMB / CMD bonuses from real weapon training, further magnified by these gloves.)

You are a high-Dex build, but are giving up armor training. Once you can afford high-enchant heavy armors, you'll feel this lack. Defensive training makes up for this lack in the AC department, but only when you're full-attacking, does nothing for armor check penalties and shoehorns you into wanting celestial mail instead of mithral full plate of speed (or some other sweet heavy armor).

You get the ability to standard action smack with both weapons, and attack of opportunity attack with both weapons. Both of these are fun abilities. Again, you're losing weapon / armor training to get these, basically limiting you to only ever being good with TWF and nothing else (your ranged backup, for example, will be terrible). The standard smack may sound good, but it doesn't work with charge or Vital Strike. The dual-AoO may sound good, but unless you're going to take Combat Reflexes and be enlarged or surrounded all the time, it won't matter much for a non-reach fighter.

For feats, as a basic rule, if you hit (or shoot) things for a living, you get Quick Draw once you get an iterative attack, no questions asked. This lets you theoretically full-attack in the first real round of combat (either by a faster enemy closing to melee range before you act, or by the awesomeness that is the quick runner's shirt.

Beyond that, getting Weapon Focus, GWF, Weapon Spec, GWS, TWF, ITWF, and GTWF as soon as you can are your priorities. Your level-based ability score boosts will all have to go to Dex to be able to afford these feats. This stuff, plus Quick Draw, is all you "need" to TWF. Anything else is player & character preference.

Hope this was helpful!


Yes but the straight fighter doesn't mitigate the issue of fighting with two one handed weapons vs. a light and a one handed or two lights.... TWF archetype does.

However. Something else to look at is:

While the character has -4/-4, which looks like it sucks up front. The fighter that fights with one light blade and one heavy blade has to use more feats and gets bonuses from weapon training later on all his weapons.

So up front, in early levels the light/heavy fighter works better, later on the -4/-4 isn't as bad as it would first appear and is ahead in some ways.

Personally, I prefer mobile fighter, taking the regular TWF feats and dealing with the -4/-4.

at first level I will take a shield ( I have learned all too often TWF doesn't pay off the first few levels.) around level 3-5 i switch to using a light off hand weapon (after taking TWF, which I dont choose at first level) and take the -2/-2, which isnt that noticeable by then as I have higher BAB and I likely have masterwork or magic weapons.
By 7-9th level Im fighting with the two heavy weapons, all my specializations are in place and need only the single weapon chosen for the feats instead of duplicates and I just eat the -4/-4, If hitting things becomes an issue, I just go Two hander with the bastard sword not using offhand attacks, picking up +4 (effectively) to hit and 1.5 Str damage to boot.

the mobile fighter adresses things that all fighters suffer from Full attacks and movement, and works really well thematically with a higher dex fighter, who has to have higher dex simply because of the feat prereq's.
Yes with that archetype you only get armor training twice, but a high Dex fighter is likely not going to wear heavy armor anyway, and if you do, Mithral and getting armor training twice should do nicely for mitigating the Dex max of something like full plate.


Pendagast wrote:
Yes but the straight fighter doesn't mitigate the issue of fighting with two one handed weapons vs. a light and a one handed or two lights.... TWF archetype does.

As I pointed out, it's just an illusion if you look at it in a vacuum since the TWF archetype can 't use gloves of dueling (which, by the time the time improved / perfect balance come into play, are easily available).

Pendagast wrote:

However. Something else to look at is:

While the character has -4/-4, which looks like it sucks up front. The fighter that fights with one light blade and one heavy blade has to use more feats and gets bonuses from weapon training later on all his weapons.

So up front, in early levels the light/heavy fighter works better, later on the -4/-4 isn't as bad as it would first appear and is ahead in some ways.

This could be partially mitigated by going with battle + hand axe, but as you said, it's only an early-level consideration. A character could also get Weapon Focus in his temporary light off-hand with a fighter feat and re-train it later. Either way, doesn't matter for this character, as he's already established as a b-sword guy.

Pendagast wrote:
(mobile fighter information)

I agree that the mobile fighter has some very nice options that do amazing things for the fighter by changing the full-attack paradigm for them. In actual gameplay, it's probably the strongest archetype for any fighter build because of this. Its raw theorycraft numbers don't compare well, but the fact that it gets more full-attacks makes it a very superior option.


Some campaigns you can't afford Gloves of Dueling. And sometimes they aren't worth it.


Mordain Thade - irrespective of Base class or Archetype - when you're looking to dual wield to the tune of -4/-4, you want your modifying stat (STR or DEX, doesn't matter which) to be as high as possible. For me, I like what Two-Weapon Warrior has to offer in terms of offensive and defensive benefits.

Difference of opinion. :)


Azaelas: It's possible that they may be out of reach for some campaigns, but at a price of 15k (or half with a party crafter with CWI), it's not too demanding. As for not being worth it, I can't disagree more. For someone with weapon training, there are no better gloves in the game - they add the same perks as +2 Strength, minus skill bonuses, plus more CMD, plus not dropping the weapons. No other glove item even comes close to that level of power.

Ioaba: Regarding ability scores, I agree 100% there. Gotta say that in games I play / run, it's even easier since we actually roll for our scores rather than using a point buy.

About the archetype in particular, I guess if the gloves aren't available and / or with a permanently (or reliably) Large character, there can be good things for the archetype; otherwise, I just don't see it. Difference of opinion indeed :)


There are plenty of other gloves.

I rarely take those Gloves with my Switch Hitter Builds because a Glove of Storing is more valuable.

Grand Lodge

Seriously guys, what's the attraction?

What makes the Bastard Sword just "sooooo awesome" that every other martial build must wield them?

There must be something I am missing.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Seriously guys, what's the attraction?

What makes the Bastard Sword just "sooooo awesome" that every other martial build must wield them?

There must be something I am missing.

I can think of two possibilities.

1. Largest sword you can one-hand.
2. Puerile attraction to the name. "He said 'bastard'. Heh heh."

Liberty's Edge

IlleSapiens wrote:

Working something I'll likely run by you guys later, but... first...

I can't for the life of me find the rules on large weapons anywhere beyond what you've said. I've googled "Large weapons pathfinder" "large bastard sword" etc. Can't find s*@*. So a link or a page number from whatever book it is in would be great. I checked ultimate equipment and they only have the stuff for small and medium bastard swords or w/e. So yeah.

It's in the core rule book on page 144 under Weapon Size in Inappropriately Sized Weapons:

PRD wrote:

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.

Grand Lodge

Bearded Ben wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Seriously guys, what's the attraction?

What makes the Bastard Sword just "sooooo awesome" that every other martial build must wield them?

There must be something I am missing.

I can think of two possibilities.

1. Largest sword you can one-hand.
2. Puerile attraction to the name. "He said 'bastard'. Heh heh."

Urumi is bigger(5ft. compared to 4ft.), made up of one to four blades, and flexible.

Double Chicken Saber is still cooler to say.


Bearded Ben wrote:


2. Puerile attraction to the name. "He said 'bastard'. Heh heh."

I like "long" better than "bastard" at least when it's about how the girls call me.

I know I already made this joke in another bastard sword thread. But I still like it


I like the History of the Bastard Sword. After all it does date back to the Greeks.

Grand Lodge

Not twin Gladius?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Seriously guys, what's the attraction?

What makes the Bastard Sword just "sooooo awesome" that every other martial build must wield them?

There must be something I am missing.

Op already stated it's because his character was a bastard too, and it kinda fit him, like a dwarf using an axe or a hammer rather than a sword.

Personally I never really see bastard swords used much, and when I used them, it was because it was the closest weapon statwise to a katana, but that was before Paizo released the sword itself.


I have a house rule that you cant two hand one hand weapons, as a result we see more dwarf axes and bastard swords because it makes it worth the feat to be able to EITHER use it TWF, with or shield, or get the 1.5 x str out of the weapon (which other wise you would need to switch to a two handed weapon to get)

Other than that, I often use a bastard sword because three other guys at the table would have a longsword...breaks up the monotony, and I can tell which sword is mine in the pile of loot when we liberate our captured gear!

Grand Lodge

That is a weird houserule.

Why did you do it?


If I used that rule I would give the Bastard Sword and probably a few other weapons an exception. Mainly Hafted Weapons...

Grand Lodge

Player: "I place my left hand upon the handle of the weapon wielded in my right hand, and attempt to swing with more force..."

DM: "No! You feel the power of the Gods forcing your other hand away, making it impossible!"

Player: "Um, I try harder.."

DM: "Fine! After much forcing, your left hand grips the handle as well, but feels limp and lacks strength. You gain no bonus to damage."

Player: "You know what.. I spend all of my gold, buy a scroll of wish, and wish to be able to effectively wield any one-handed weapon with two hands, as well as two handed weapons."

DM: "Fine! Your wish is granted. Both your arms fall off."

Player: "Son of a b!*&%!" Storms off.


I can see it on your typical Arming/Long Sword which only has around 1-2 inches extra on the hilt not the 3+ that a Bastard Sword has.

Hence why I said If I used it I would give exceptions. Maybe add in Mundane Weapon Mods and have one that allowed you to use both hands.


I have swung longswords with two hands and one hand, they dont get much extra out of them.

With a bastard sword or a long handled axe you can get more leverage (like chopping down a tree with a larger axe as opposed to say a hand axe)

Longswords and the like dont have extra room for more hands and they aren't designed for it.

Plus I like the idea of there BEING a reason for the feat for dwarf axes and bastard swords.

If you want to be able to swing a weapon with one hand, OR use the same weapon with two hands occasionally, spend the feat. Otherwise the longsword , battle axe or mace is just a one handed weapon... no two hand benefits.


Not to be a wet blanket to the character concept, but two things jump out at me....

First, you said in your OP that exotic weapon proficiency gave you a +1.
It does not. It requires a BAB of +1 to be legal, but does not grant any bonus to hit.

Second, many would view Enlarge Person and Lead Blades as both being size modifiers, and not stackable. I'm one of them. YMMV.


Enlarge Person increases the actual size. Lead Blades causes them to deal damage as one size larger.

So a Medium Bastard Sword enlarged would be a Large Bastard Sword then Lead Blades would have it deal damage as a Huge Bastard Sword.

Grand Lodge

@Pendagast: You bring up a lot of your houserules(which seem to be quite numerous), and seem to always have some reason why they are superior thrown in there(admittedly rather subtly at time).

Why?

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