Crafting - how does it work?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I’m new to Pathfinder and D&D, but I feel like I’ve quickly learned most of the combat and roleplaying rules after a couple of sessions. One thing that completely baffled on is crafting. It seems like it takes an inordinate amount of time, money, and repeated crafting roles to make anything. And I don’t understand how to make magic items.
Does it really take weeks upon weeks to make a simple +2 composite bow, with having to make tons of crafting checks the entire time?

How much of your character’s time must be spent crafting? After a week of adventuring, does that count at all? Or does he have to be at home or in the inn devoted mainly to the crafting for most of the day? If so, when does an adventurer ever get time to craft a really cool item? [I have the same general question for a profession. If you're off on a campaign and adventuring, what use is a profession? You're never going to have time to do it... so I don't really get the point of it.]

Also, how do I craft magic items. Let’s consider a +3 (str) composite bow with Holy enchantment. How would I go about crafting that?

Thanks in advance!


There is a supplement I use (and modify as needed) called Making Craft Work. I think its much better than the default rules.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/82666/Making-Craft-Work-%28PFRPG%29

It's work it for a mere $0.99. It should fix your problem with how long certain items take to craft. (I use real-world examples whenever possible.)

But, on that note, yes, while it only takes a few hours to form a stick into a bow, you also have to semi-mold it, which takes a few days, AND you have to protect the wood, oil it, and let the wood cure, which can take weeks. (When I make walking sticks, which use the same basic steps, it takes 3-6 weeks, depending on the weather, to properly cure a staff.)


Magic Items, even I need help with, lol, but I'm sure someone will touch on that for you soon!


I read this: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Magic-Item-Creation

which explained a bit. But I still don't understand - does the crafter of the magic item have to be able to cast the spell they are putting on the item? How does that work for things like "Seeker" or "Holy" on a bow? Or "+4 dex" on a belt?

With the craft wonderous item feat, do you not even need the crafting skill? Is it just the feat + one single spellcraft check?


paladinguy wrote:

I read this: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Magic-Item-Creation

which explained a bit. But I still don't understand - does the crafter of the magic item have to be able to cast the spell they are putting on the item? How does that work for things like "Seeker" or "Holy" on a bow? Or "+4 dex" on a belt?

With the craft wonderous item feat, do you not even need the crafting skill? Is it just the feat + one single spellcraft check?

For each prerequisite you don't have, the craft DC increases by +5.

You don't need the craft skills, spellcraft will suffice.


Whale_Cancer wrote:
paladinguy wrote:

I read this: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Magic-Item-Creation

which explained a bit. But I still don't understand - does the crafter of the magic item have to be able to cast the spell they are putting on the item? How does that work for things like "Seeker" or "Holy" on a bow? Or "+4 dex" on a belt?

With the craft wonderous item feat, do you not even need the crafting skill? Is it just the feat + one single spellcraft check?

For each prerequisite you don't have, the craft DC increases by +5.

You don't need the craft skills, spellcraft will suffice.

Say I'm a level 3 wizard with +11 spellcraft and the craft wonderous item feat. What spells would I have to know to create a +3 str, composite bow with "Holy" on it? How much exactly would it cost and what would the DC check for it be?


Unfortunately you wouldn't be able to craft that bow at all - what you would need is Craft Arms & Armour and for that you would need to be 5th level.

However even at that -

"Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. A magic weapon must have at least a 1 enhancement bonus to have any melee or ranged special weapon abilities."

So forgetting about the holy enchant for a moment, a 5th level caster still wouldn't be capable of enchanting up to +3, unless of course you can also sidestep this ruling by increasing the DC of the Spellcraft Check by 5.

Which I'm not too sure about...


To piggy back this thread a bit. Can you take 10 on a craft magic item check?


paladinguy wrote:
Say I'm a level 3 wizard with +11 spellcraft and the craft wonderous item feat. What spells would I have to know to create a +3 str, composite bow with "Holy" on it? How much exactly would it cost and what would the DC check for it be?

You cannot craft it at all, because a bow is arms and armor, not a wondrous item.

Let's alter the scenario, and say you are a level 3 wizard with +11 spellcraft, +11 Craft: Bowyer, and the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat though. . .

Quote:

You can create magic weapons, armor, or shields. Enhancing a weapon, suit of armor, or shield takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in the price of its magical features. To enhance a weapon, suit of armor, or shield, you must use up raw materials costing half of this total price.

The weapon, armor, or shield to be enhanced must be a masterwork item that you provide. Its cost is not included in the above cost.

You can also mend a broken magic weapon, suit of armor, or shield if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the raw materials and half the time it would take to craft that item in the first place.

So step 1) Is the bow you wish to enchant Masterwork Quality? Chances are the answer is no. So! you have 3 options:

1) Cast Masterwork Transformation on the bow.

Masterwork Transformation:

You convert a non-masterwork item into its masterwork equivalent. A normal sword becomes a masterwork sword, a suit of leather armor becomes a masterwork suit of leather armor, a set of thieves' tools becomes masterwork thieves' tools, and so on. If the target object has no masterwork equivalent, the spell has no effect. You can affect 50 pieces of ammunition as if they were one weapon. You decide if the object's appearance changes to reflect this improved quality.

The material component for the spell is magical reagents worth the cost difference between a normal item and the equivalent masterwork item (typically 300 gp for a weapon, 150 gp for armor, or 50 gp for a tool). If an object has multiple masterwork options (such as a double weapon, or a spiked shield that could be made masterwork as a weapon or armor), you choose one option of the object to affect (though you can cast the spell again to affect another option).

2) Craft your own masterwork bow

Craft Masterwork:
Create Masterwork Items: You can make a masterwork item: a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship. To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item. The masterwork component has its own price (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield, see Equipment for the price of other masterwork tools) and a Craft DC of 20. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials.

How it Works:

To do this you first craft the Masterwork Component. This is a DC 20 Craft Check.
Step 1: 300 gp to craft = 3000 sp.
Step 2a: Roll your craft check:
Craft: Make a Masterwork Bow: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (4) + 11 = 15 = Failure!
Step 2b: How much did I fail by? 20-15=5. Failed by 5 or more, so I lose 1/2 the materials. I need to spend another 150g. (If I had failed by 4 or less, I would simply have made no progress for the week)
Step 2c: Roll craft check again! Craft: Make a Masterwork Bow: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (10) + 11 = 21 = Success!
Result: 21, multiplied by DC: 20 = 420. I have now completed 420 of 3000 sp worth of the crafting.
Keep repeating this process until your completion exceeds the value of the item you are trying to create. Each roll represents one week's work.

Once you have the Masterwork Component done, you craft the bow. This is a DC 15 Craft +2x rating (+3 Str) = DC 15+(2*3)=21 Check. (See table under Crafting). It follows the same procedure as above.

Option 3: Buy a Masterwork bow.

So now that you have a masterwork bow by one of the 3 methods above, you can enchant it.

This part is a lot faster!

Step 1: Look up the item you want to create to find the caster level required, cost, and spells needed.

Step 2: For each you are missing add 5 to the base DC of 5 to enchant the item. The DCs stack!

For example, you are CL3, and Holy requires CL7. This does not increase the DC by 5, it increased the DC by 5 for CL4, CL5, CL6, and CL7 for a total DC increase of 20.

Further, not being able to cast holy smite would increase the DC by 5 if you had access to the spell, but you do not. that is 2 missing pre-requisites, not just 1 missing pre req. add 10 more to the DC.
-- Special Note here! You personally do not need to be able to cast the spell in question. You only need access to the casting of the spell. For example, if you had a cleric at level 3 with a wand of holy smite, you would be golden, and not suffer the +10 DC increase. If you had a level 7 cleric personally there casting the spell, there would be no more advantage than the level 3 with the wand. It would in no way effect the missing CL requirements above. . . unless the cleric were crafting the magic item. . .

Step 3: Determine final DC.

So, now you have a DC of 5 base, +20 for CL prerequisites not met, +10 DC for spell prerequisites not met. for a total of 35 (or DC 25 with the wand wielding level 3 cleric buddy)

If you fail your spellcraft DC 25-35 foll by more than 5, you create a cursed item. If you fail the roll by 4 or less, you just waste all the gold and time. If you succeed, you are golden, and now have your Holy Longbow (+3 Str).

At this time, it is important to note that rolling a natural 20 on a skill check is NOT an automatic success, nor is rolling a 1 an automatic failure!

This task is imposible for you without help, and a grim task at best even with your wand wielding ally.

Spellcraft with my buddy to make us a bow!: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (2) + 11 = 13 Grr! Cursed again!

The time the task takes to complete is 8 hours (1 day's work) / 1000 gold.


Edit: Removed, was thinking of take 20.

Yes, you can take 10. But you need a week of no distractions.

Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Arizhel wrote:
Let's alter the scenario, and say you are a level 3 wizard with +11 spellcraft, +11 Craft: Bowyer, and the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat though. . .

Alter the scenario a bit more, to be 5th level, which is required for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor Feat.

The OP implied it takes weeks and weeks to make a +2 bow? +2 enhancement costs 8k (4k when crafting), and thus it would take 8 days to craft, and only one Spellcraft skill check.

Now if you intend to craft the bow itself from a hunk of tree, then it's gonna take longer, particularly since you need a MW bow. My advice is to buy a MW bow, and then enhance it yourself.


Good call on the level 5 for the feat, assuming the same everything else:

At level 5: Assume +2 to Spellcraft for 2 levels = 13 Spellcraft.

Not CL6, Not CL7, DC +10
Not Divine Caster, No Holy Smite, DC +10 (Which can be resolved by handing a Cleric or Oracle a wand of Holy Smite)

Base DC 5, +10, +10 = 25, 15 with a Cleric to handle the spell.

Time: 8 days, 4000 coins.

Now, it is actually possible.

Assume Craft skill also gets to 13. Crafting a MW Component is still DC 20. On a roll of six or less, you fail. You are a wizard. You are guaranteed success via the spell. They both cost the same. Silly to spend the time and risk the gold to actually craft the MW component.


LamentoftheLost wrote:

There is a supplement I use (and modify as needed) called Making Craft Work. I think its much better than the default rules.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/82666/Making-Craft-Work-%28PFRPG%29

It's work it for a mere $0.99. It should fix your problem with how long certain items take to craft. (I use real-world examples whenever possible.)

I would just like to second this for anyone wanting to use the craft skills.

This is a much better system than the default one in my opinion.

Though here is the link to it on the Paizo store.


Your "simple" +2 composite longbow is better than probably what 90% of the rest of the world has. Heroes exist in those upper tiers of power and wealth out of most other beings on Golarion.

Liberty's Edge

Benoc wrote:
To piggy back this thread a bit. Can you take 10 on a craft magic item check?

You can take 10 with the skill check you use to enchant an item as your work "is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine".

Probably you can't take 10 if you are adventuring as "Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster)."

You can 10 with your craft skill when physically making an item too.

@Arizhel It is doubtful that you need to add +5 to the DC foe each missing spellcaster level. SKR has promised us a blog about what can be done and what can't be done with the +5 increase to the DC.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Of course there is an easier way to make a Masterwork item.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/masterworkTransform ation.html#_masterwork-transformation


Can a staff have both Arcane and Divine spells in it?


Arizhel, I am unsure of where you are getting your DC for a +2 bow made by a 5th level wizard.

A +2 Holy weapon has the following prerequisites:
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Caster Level must be 3 times the enhancement bonus (in this case, Caster Level 6), Holy Smite (spell), creator must be good aligned.

The Base CL is +2*3 (enhancement) or CL7 (Holy) whichever is higher. That makes the CL 7 for the purposes of DC ONLY. It is not a Prerequisite.

So we wind up with a starting DC of 5+7(CL) = 12.

Next, we have a level 5 wizard. Because he is level 5 he does not meet the prerequisite of 'Caster Level must be 3 times the enhancement bonus'. To bypass this we add +5. The DC is now 17.

Finally, we need the spell. Since the level 5 Wizard probably does not have a buddy with Holy Smite he will have to add +5 to the DC for not having the spell. This makes the DC 23.

Things that are not prerequisites:
CL: This is never a prerequisite unless it is listed in the prerequisite section. It IS used to set the initial DC. FAQ
Divine spellcaster: This is also never a prerequisite unless it is listed in the prerequisite section.

Also, I am not sure where you are getting 4000gp.
A +2 Holy weapon has an effective enhancement bonus of +4 which has a price of 32,000gp with a craft cost of 16,000gp (plus the price of a Masterwork weapon).

Summary: a +2 Holy weapon has a crafting DC of 23 if you do not meet the special Caster Level prerequisite and you do not have the spell. However, while a level 5 Wizard CAN autosucceed (taking 10 and a +5int bonus) he will have insufficient funds to make such an item.

- Gauss


Vocatus:

Yes, a staff can have both Arcane and Divine spells in it. There are several examples of this in the CRB. One such example is the Staff of Defense. It has the spells Shield (sorc/wiz) and Shield of Faith (cleric).

However, it is worth noting that the only spell-trigger or spell-completion item that keeps track of Arcane or Divine are scrolls. All other spell-trigger/completion items are 'arcane or divine neutral' and can be used by anyone that has the spell on their spell list.

- Gauss

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Crafting - how does it work? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion