So, this is not a pathfinder game. This a setting that is getting heavily alpha tested, and I am playing a purely supportive magic caster. My spells are focused around healing, a little battlefield control, and buffing my allies. I don't really attack or deal damage; I have a full-time job keeping my allies alive. As a result, I have been accused of being a munchkin and power gaming the system.
Now, I might have a different definition of powergaming and munchkining, but my thought was that a character who was powergaming, or a player who was munchkining is a player who creates a character that is impossible to hit and can kill most everything, is well-liked by everyone, you get the idea. A Marty Stu or a Mary Sue, depending on Gender?
Am I incorrect? Is it possible to power-game or munchkin a pure support character? Or should I try and find a new GM?
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You can absolutely power game a healer, buffer or debuffer.
YOu can power game a mule if you really want to.
Decently built life oracle says hi.
So then, my question: How do I not power game the support character? Do I just not support?
So then, my question: How do I not power game the support character? Do I just not support?
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You can munchkin pretty much any role. In fact, it's usually far easier for a caster who can dominate the battlefield and control the entire flow of the game to be far more powerful and have a far greater impact than any fighter whose minmaxing just gives them big numbers.
Of course you can power game a support character. However, I don't think there's really anything wrong with doing so.
When you power game a damage dealer, there's a very real risk of outperforming the rest of your party and making them feel less important. With a support character, though, it's all about making the rest of your party shine and letting them feel awesome.
Since this is a custom game and we have no idea about the rules, perhaps the problem is not the character that you built but the damage vs healing mechanic which might need some tweaking to be balanced.
Of course you can power game a support character. However, I don't think there's really anything wrong with doing so.
When you power game a damage dealer, there's a very real risk of outperforming the rest of your party and making them feel less important. With a support character, though, it's all about making the rest of your party shine and letting them feel awesome.
I played in a party with a life oracle that pretty much made us immune to death by HP depletion. It made the game pretty boring, TBH.
Cast inferior support spells I guess?
Your definition of a power gamed character is at odds with the idea of a support character, so by your definition, I would say you cannot power game a support character.
You can absolutely build an excellent support character though. My definition of powergaming is building to be good/optimal within the target parameters.
Fair enough. Its a high damage campaign (The basis of the system is the Fallout Setting), so its entirely possible that my healing is what is being referenced.
So, this is not a pathfinder game. This a setting that is getting heavily alpha tested, and I am playing a purely supportive magic caster. My spells are focused around healing, a little battlefield control, and buffing my allies. I don't really attack or deal damage; I have a full-time job keeping my allies alive. As a result, I have been accused of being a munchkin and power gaming the system.
I see.
Now, I might have a different definition of powergaming and munchkining, but my thought was that a character who was powergaming, or a player who was munchkining is a player who creates a character that is impossible to hit and can kill most everything, is well-liked by everyone, you get the idea. A Marty Stu or a Mary Sue, depending on Gender?Am I incorrect? Is it possible to power-game or munchkin a pure support character? Or should I try and find a new GM?
You are incorrect. You have the wrong definitions of most people.
A Powergamer and a Munchkin are likewise not the same.
Neither is a Mary Sue a Powergamer or a Munchkin.
Everytime you opimize enough you are a powergamer. Optimizing your buff/healing is still optimizing. Now howe much is enough? Verys by group.
A Mary Sue is an idealized character representing the author. So it is impossible to be a Mary Sue player/character. Because you are not the author (that would be the DM).
A Mary Sue is an idealized character representing the author. So it is impossible to be a Mary Sue player/character. Because you are not the author (that would be the DM).
That term has come to be used in the RPG community to refer to a certain type of character.
My first google hit brought back this.
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But more importantly, you're alpha testing a rules system, and someone is criticizing you for gaming the system? The entire point of a playtest is to push the rules until they snap. If you can build a buffer/debuffer so powerful that it unbalances the game, that's pretty valuable feedback to the developers.
It's a playtest. Munchkin the f--- out of it.
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i personally broke a 3.5 bard using words of creation. i'd have to check what else i used, but in the end the party might as well have been 10 levels higher the moment my bard started playing. I was rather proud of how i took an underpowered class and gave it a chance to show that you don't need to do damage to power game :)
power gaming is setting up your stats where only the ones your character uses are maxed and everything else is dumped then arranging feats traits and items to a degree where your character is a result of a math formula instead of a character concept. Example you pick the weapon with the best stats instead of what you like. My first few characters where more or less like this.
Now I’ve gotten to the point where I think up a character and its personality and will set up stats according to that. Maybe I want a half Orc wizard. Really not the best race for it but that’s an rp set up character. Where a power-gamed wizard would probably be an elf with no STR high dex low-ok con int as high as it can go low-med Wis and the cha of a rock.
My fave character to date is an oracle bard I just started playing. I decided on an oracle of life since the party had no heals yet the dip in bard was not planned. here's pretty much how it happened I decided on a cat folk for the dex/cha boost the - to wis didn't bug me much since casters get great will saves.
Now my view of this character was rescued or freed slave and I pictured it as a khajiit (if you live under a rock and have never played an elder scrolls game Google it)
Now in my DM's setting if you’re not a human you are going to run into a racial conflict at some point and elves tend to have hidden cities and don't bug anyone. (This is why I figured the slave background would be best)
I chose a female (I always tend to play what the party has less of to balance things)
I think my DM was attempting to troll me but ended up trolling himself because he looks at my stuff and goes ok you were a sex slave and treated like crap your slave master was a twisted elf and you are the result of selective breeding to make a cat folk that is appealing to humans. (He pretty much turned my Khajiit into a neko with fur with an amazing body because my Cha was 20...) Who was bought by the cavalier to function as his squire and toy I guess. (Also because my friend owns me he is looked down on by the rest of his order but his boss trusts his judgment.)
I gave a dirty look and the party swapped some jokes but I decided ok ill play your game (and im going for over kill) so first I asked if we could have traits answer yes. So I got the low light vision of elves because I took the cat folk scent trait. Then gave her a birthmark of the symbol of Desna on her lower back. (So yes now it’s an anime cat girl with a butterfly tramp stamp)
Then I described a skimpy outfit and fur pattern that once I had said it the girl playing the mage of the group sketched out this over the top character in a skimpy oracle outfit with a bow on its tail and a bell on its neck. And started passing it around and everyone was laughing and when I got it I was like yes!
Lol I showed it to the dm and he looked at it then was like you can’t have a bell!!! Then I argued why not do bells not exist? And he says they exist...
I said ok I want one. then he gives me a look and says why would you wear a bell?... and I look at my friend that owns my character and say because master told me to... and my friend not missing a beat goes do you know how f#*@ing scary it is to have a 5 foot tall cat girl sneak up on you and yell master every time she finds something that interests her! Then he fakes a shiver and mutters terrifying... so I put a bell on the b+%%& so she couldn’t sneak up on me.
Our dm pretty much head desks and we all laugh I think at this point we all decided to milk this. (also I’m seeing how far I can push this because he is amused and loves the role play but you can tell he’s like oh god what have I done....)
The first game as her consisted of her chasing a dancing light around a room with the sorcerer laughing her ass off. Some cat god appearing to my character like an imaginary friend and scaring the crap out of her since she had never seen anything that looked like her. (I think it was a made up god) I ended up giving her a sling and after the first battle she launched a magic stone at the lead Orc and killed him before the fight started. Then skipped her next turn because she was jumping around going yay I did it I got one did you see that? got a second repeated and the fight ended 5 orcs where asleep and 4 frozen the rogue killed 3 of the frozen and was about to kill the last when my character deciding she didn’t need the last stone was walking away and tossed it over her shoulder it flew through the air and shattered the last Orc by accident covering the rogue with nasty stuff. He made faces and was like here kitty kitty kitty... she backed away slowly.
Later as the rogue was talking about cleaning himself off she said I can help! And drenched him with create water. The player was amused the rogue was not. Then got a 27 on a preform sing at level 1 for the children and refugees that night. the next day the rogue walks up to her and says hey smell this and blows cat nip in her face pretty much putting her on extacy for a few hours. So far the group doesn’t know she has holy powers and she doesn’t really know yet. They just think she’s weird but has uses like her mending spell.
She is NG with lawful and chaotic tendencies (obeys master without question and is prone to chasing butterflies)
I never thought I’d use a sling on any character but I love it.
Also until this character I had always been the quiet thoughtful monk or cleric type so the group now is like holy crap he can role play lol.
Now she’s an oracle/bard and I’m going to try and start a rave at some point lol. also the character that is her master pretty much has the power to walk up to someone knock there groceries out of their hands and fine them for littering lol so... can’t touch me I’m property of a knight lol.
But this character was pretty much a series of accidents and is quickly becoming my fave and I think everyone else's
She is in no way a power-game character but she is so fun she’s pushing my others out of the way. My smart ass cleric is giving her a run for her money though.
I seem to have gone off topic but my point was make something you and the rest of the group will enjoy and remember not the answer to a math problem because you will end up bored after like 5 games or the party will get annoyed that you kill everything before combat starts.
Power-gaming is a play style though and can be fun in the right group but tends to make a dm go oh god...
To me it just sounds like your group is smart and you are a good support player (which I enjoy) barbarian + bulls STR + enlarge person = go grab some popcorn at low levels
Heh, I can tell you from experience that is very possible to power game a support character. My GF plays bards and bard like classes exclusively. She stumbled upon the evangelist cleric (cleric that gets inspire) and is a complete beast at improving party efficiency. +AC channel bonus, +hit/damage, restore lost HP, remove conditions, prevent death, ect. She even has a "when things get serious" pattern that gives her relevant support actions with every possible thing you can do in a round (std, move, and swift, i believe its swift inspire, std buff spell, and move quicken channel).
Any time you can have a party member apply 3 buffs in 1 round you really abuse action economy, and the force multiplier you get with everybody hitting 15% or more often and getting hit much less (with a minor group burst heal) is truly eye opening.
Of course I don't really think the above is munchin levels or anything, but you don't have to go full munch to powergame (and a little power game is actually very helpful when designing a system, god knows how players like to abuse a non robust ruleset, power gaming is just a stress test for game design). As long as the other classes can achieve similar competence (with similar effort some would argue) in their chosen roles the system is actually balanced too!
Yeah, most of my buffs are passive. Increasing perception, increasing defenses. I only usually get to put up a wall before our combat wombats devastate the competition. I am playing a student exploring the mysteries of magic (They asked me to test the magic system). I didn't even build the stats correctly for a spell caster...of course, the gm was complaining that I was slightly above average (in extra point in a 10 point system) in spell casting stats. Maybe I should of seen this coming...
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Remove the point and see if you are still 'powergaming'.
As others have said, yes, you can powergame virtually anything. Even a handle animal based character using regularly purchased animals available at appropriate levels. Even Diviners can be power gamed.
But there is nothing wrong with powergaming, really. It's munchkinizing that gets irritating after a while (a while being very quickly).