DM troubles (CC Spoilers)


Carrion Crown

The Exchange

OK guys I need some pointers here.

We are currently playing though the CC AP and I have come across a couple of problems with the current GM.
1) He obsesses over killed characters. It seems every character death he doles out he expects some sort of hand wringing and desire from the player to somehow involve the character further. i.e. He plans to swap the soul of the warden for our dead clerics soul, he was very disappointed that one player was fine with his inquisitor just being turned over to the church for buriel, etc...
2) He gets way to involved in his NPC's, often reworking 'set piece' or face-and-name only NPC's into full fledged write up (class levels, motivations, etc...) i.e. we had charmed/intimidated 3 goblins into being our door openers at the end of Book 2 (goblins were part of a failed wandering monster roll ambush) well the very next week it was goblin druid, fighter and alchemist and he desired that we attempt to use this trio of slugs we were using as polish mine detectors and seemed sad that we did not give a whit about them. A group of names we don't need in the next area well why not invest time and make whole character behind them.
3) He won't leave the players alone to build their characters insisting he be apart of the character development. Now after a near TPK I have chosen to retire my current character and stride forth with a new one, he insists that I be apart of some other party at the next location and keep my current on until the party arrives there. I really feel cheesed off and do not want to play this character anymore and while between books it would be a perfect time to swap out.

As the default GM for RotRL and on the spot GM when things fall apart due the RL and scheduled GM for Shattered Star I get cheesed off about the unnecessary distractions to the story arc, the unending involvement of the dead and the interference in character development. I've tried to play it cool but really this last bit of interference in my character swap makes me wanna say and do mean things to him. Any advice on how to handle this?


Talk to your GM about your issues in private, clearly and honestly. If this doesn't have any impact on the items that you're unhappy with, then you shouldn't play in that GM's game.

Man I need to just cut and paste the above into a text file and save it for everytime I re-type it out.


It sounds like he just really loves GMing, and running just one game isn't enough for him.

I would recommend he start a second campaign so he can explore his creative process. If he can't find a group of local players, he could start a Play-by-Post campaign by looking in the Recruitment forum. They're always looking for enthusiastic GMs.


eh just continue to ignore his overworked random characters, if he wants to flesh out the grocery store bag boy, let him..... say two words to him and leave him in the dust.

As far as switching out characters, if he doesnt like the way you do it... wait til the next big scary combat and tell the other players "go on without me, Ill cover you!" and taken them all on yourself.....

of course there is always sepkku.

Dark Archive

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So it sounds to me like your DM is going through a lot of time and trouble trying to get the players involved and invested in the plot of a very story rich adventure path.

And your response is "Why should I care".

My suggestion is that you volunteer to run something else, to give him a break and a chance to play. Some time in the GM chair might give you a whole new perspective on this "problem".

There are a lot of people that would absolutely love to be have a GM like that, myself included. And if I was running a game, and got the reaction you are posting here from a player, that player would never be invited to play with our gaming group again.


Two options:

1. Talk to him about it and work something out.

2. Create a chaotic evil character who randomly murders NPCs. That will teach him to stop putting effort into the NPCs he creates.


mmmm it looks like he want to give you a flavorful story...

Wrong!!

a gm can make the flavor he want for his campaigns always the players have fun, if they don´t, what are he doing wrong?

as a GM i try to come with new rules every time i run a game, my players check them and accept or denay it... that way we can try something new or not.

ask him to leave the GM´s chair and let him play one character. ask him what kind of game he want to play and make that plot for him, a gm always loves when theyre players try something for him... we deserve a good play as you do

(i have almost 5 years without play a character, only GMing)


I confess to thinking about the backgrounds of NPCs, and I often give names to random encounters. I also don't like it when players just switch characters rather than sticking with the PC they started with (particularly when they do it without consulting me, though the OP doesn't sound like this was necessarily what he did). This is just my GMing style, and I try to find compatible players. Everybody's GMing style is different, at least in my experience, and if these are the characteristics of the guy running this campaign then make sure he knows you don't enjoy his GMing style (privately, like Lamontius said). If he insists on giving his NPCs names, let him. As for being allowed to switch characters, that seems like something that should be up to the GM.

Just my opinion, of course.


Victor Zajic wrote:

So it sounds to me like your DM is going through a lot of time and trouble trying to get the players involved and invested in the plot of a very story rich adventure path.

And your response is "Why should I care".

My suggestion is that you volunteer to run something else, to give him a break and a chance to play. Some time in the GM chair might give you a whole new perspective on this "problem".

There are a lot of people that would absolutely love to be have a GM like that, myself included. And if I was running a game, and got the reaction you are posting here from a player, that player would never be invited to play with our gaming group again.

It's a difference in playstyles is all it is. Some people like to sit back and play the game, and don't want to be subjected to the life story of Random Commoner #3 when all they wanted was info about their next lead in the quest.

As the GM you should be prepared for things to be ignored, missed, or killed outright before they have a chance to do much damage (in the case of hostile NPCs). You can flesh things out all you want (I give class levels and a bit of dialogue to anyone who might enter combat or interact in a meaningful way with the party), but you have to avoid getting too attached when the party simply cares about what's going on in the mission.

You shouldn't be kicking people out just because they're not into the whole dramatic/soap opera stuff when you are.


^ this.

There is no way of knowing what the PC's will react to, totally ignoring and walking by a major plot hook.

Be prepared to be stymied by obliviousness and then stumped when they want to get to know the barmaid in the random inn you have nothing prepared for.


tbug wrote:

As for being allowed to switch characters, that seems like something that should be up to the GM.

Sure the GM may disallow changing PCs. And the player can leave the group if he doesn't want to keep playing a pc and is not allowed to change. I'd rather do that than play a pc I don't like.

Dark Archive

Rynjin wrote:
Victor Zajic wrote:

So it sounds to me like your DM is going through a lot of time and trouble trying to get the players involved and invested in the plot of a very story rich adventure path.

And your response is "Why should I care".

My suggestion is that you volunteer to run something else, to give him a break and a chance to play. Some time in the GM chair might give you a whole new perspective on this "problem".

There are a lot of people that would absolutely love to be have a GM like that, myself included. And if I was running a game, and got the reaction you are posting here from a player, that player would never be invited to play with our gaming group again.

It's a difference in playstyles is all it is. Some people like to sit back and play the game, and don't want to be subjected to the life story of Random Commoner #3 when all they wanted was info about their next lead in the quest.

As the GM you should be prepared for things to be ignored, missed, or killed outright before they have a chance to do much damage (in the case of hostile NPCs). You can flesh things out all you want (I give class levels and a bit of dialogue to anyone who might enter combat or interact in a meaningful way with the party), but you have to avoid getting too attached when the party simply cares about what's going on in the mission.

You shouldn't be kicking people out just because they're not into the whole dramatic/soap opera stuff when you are.

You do realize that we're playing grown-up pretend, right? Dramatic/Soap Opera stuff is pretty much the entire point.

Carrion Crown is not a good fit for players that just wanna kill stuff.


Victor Zajic wrote:
You do realize that we're playing grown-up pretend, right? Dramatic/Soap Opera stuff is pretty much the entire point.

Maybe, to an extent, but let's say you're watching a movie. Do you honestly give a flying f$$+ about Passer-By #3's life story?

If you're 90% of the population, no you don't. Because he doesn't matter. He has no direct or even indirect impact on the plot as a whole. He is entirely superfluous.

So why should someone be forced to waste their time pretending to care about the Extras because they're afraid the GM will kick them out if they don't?

Victor Zajic wrote:
Carrion Crown is not a good fit for players that just wanna kill stuff.

You do realize that "I don't care about the useless background characters." and "I just wanna kill stuff." are not the same thing, right? The whole "moving the plot forward and having fun" stuff is pretty much the entire point.

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