Non Human Tiefling

[Victor Zajic]

I kinda think the proposed FAQ entry encourages people to not follow the "Human Stock Tieflings and Asimar Only" rule. Whether or not it is a good rule, currently, if your tiefling character says that his mother was an elf, he's either lying in character, and other people could make sense motive checks against his bluff check, or he's been lied to.

The people running the campaign have the right to make any rule they desire for any reason. It's their story and their world, and even if there aren't mechnical differences, it might be important that only human stock can be tieflings. Maybe it's a big cannon plot surprise planned for season 8 of PFS, explaining why infernal and abyssal blood only breeds true with human blood, because of some ancient pact made at the dawn of creation. Or maybe it's not. Maybe it's just campaign fluff of PFS, like how the Asmodean faith is the state religion of Cheliax. The campaign staff get to choose how their campaign world is set up, in ways that are completely seperated from the mechanics of the game. It's just like a home game where your dm says that orcs don't exist in his world, or that goblins don't make a suitable PC race (no matter how much I want to play one).

Currently, I've had a similar problem. I want to take a prestige class that will let my Chelish Sorceror become better at summoning devils. Diabolist was my first idea, but I can't take it until level 11, and since I'm level six, the other people I play with are starting to take HellKnight, or other cool prestige classes, and I want to join in the fun now. I found Blackfire Adept in Paths of Prestige, and got excited, because it looked like a way for me to get what I wanted. But I checked additional resources and found out it wasn't legal, presumable because it didn't fit with the campaign to be a member of such a evil focused group.

That's their call to make. I don't think there should should be a FAQ entry that explains that while you're not allowed to take the class, your character could say that he's a member of the Blackfire Adepts, as long as he doesn't get any benefit from it.

Until the rules change, showing up with a tiefling breed from elven stock is willfully breaking the rules of the game (assuming you are aware of this ruling). Bringing such at character to the table just to see if your can get away with it, or to make a point about how you think the rule is bad, also falls under the "don't be a jerk" rule, if nothing else.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm also saying that PFS can be different from Golarion cannon, if the Campaign Admins rule it so.

[Nuku]

Invalid argument. The additional resources page says it's alright. So far, only a mention on a forum -changes- the rules further.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

Nuku wrote:

Invalid argument. The additional resources page says it's alright. So far, only a mention on a forum -changes- the rules further.

Just because you say its an invalid argument, doesn't make it so.

Message board posts are binding per the Guide to Organized Play.

This entire thread has pretty much run its course.

You don't like the rule.

The rule exists.

You made your case, and Jiggy has helped with wording for a potential change to the rule.

Either Mike will take that under advisement or he will choose to leave things as they are.

But currently, there isn't much left to say on this topic.

You have two choices.

Play by the rules, or don't play.

[Nuku]

No one is arguing for the idea of breaking the rules.

Please stop implying I am suggesting to break the rules.

My character is a -dwarf-.

[Michael Brock]

Nuku wrote:

Invalid argument. The additional resources page says it's alright. So far, only a mention on a forum -changes- the rules further.

I have added it to the Additional Resources scheduled to go live on Jan 30.

*Note: Tieflings may only be half-human. Other races, including but not limited to dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, half-orc, tengu, and any other race, are not legal in PFS.

[Nuku]

That's good. It will be at least visible to people who don't frequent the forums.

Any reply to the rest of the thread?

[Michael Brock]

Nuku wrote:

Any reply to the rest of the thread?

Nope. You know the ruling. It isn't a secret. Feel free to continue to debate it all you like with other posters here as long as that debate remains civil.

As for the ruling, it isn't going to change. You may not legally use a half-dwarf tiefling in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

[Nuku]

Alright. So the reasoning is: We said so. And we're not changing our minds. Feel free to argue, we're not listening.

Got it. See you all later.

[Chris Mortika]

(shrug)

I hope to see Nuku at my table some day. But it sounds like he's not happy with an organized play campaign that makes rulings.

And there goes my chance to play a Tiefling whose other half was Aasimar.

[Paul Byers]

Chris Mortika wrote:

(shrug)

I hope to see Nuku at my table some day. But it sounds like he's not happy with an organized play campaign that makes rulings.

And there goes my chance to play a Tiefling whose other half was Aasimar.

I didn't get that he was 'not happy with an organized play campaign that makes rulings' from his response:

Nuku wrote:

That's good. It will be at least visible to people who don't frequent the forums.

Seems more like he was upset about the dialogue essentially being ended in a manner that was brusque by the campaign coordinator. Given that he had been described upthread as throwing a tantrum I thought he was very civil about the whole thing. Probably don't need to imagine indefensible motives for his exit.

As far as the additional resources edit, the end result is at least functional.

[Michael Brock]

Don't make the mistake of reading tone into my posts. It wasn't brusque. It was stated in a matter-of-fact way. In the past, I have tried to insert jokes into my post and people take it as I am making fun of them. Other times, I have added lighthearted responses and people have criticized me for not taking their query seriously. So I choose now to only respond matter-of-factly to all questions.

He wanted to know if I had any reply to the rest of the thread and, simply put, I don't. He doesn't like the ruling and it is clear by the way this thread has been trending, that nothing I say is going to change his mind short of me changing it to a ruling he wants. So, there is no need for me to exacerbate bad feelings further by continuing the conversation he hasn't agreed with for 3 pages of threads.

Everyone has the official PFS ruling. This thread has nowhere to go but down with people only trying to be argumentative. Thread is locked. Keep it civil folks.