Forecaster (Alchemist)

Round 2: Design an archetype

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka primemover003

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Forecaster (Alchemist)
The alchemist’s guild known as the forecasters study and maintain the complex workings of the magical clock tower at the center of the River Kingdoms town of Uringen. The forecasters glean insight into the nature of fluid time when the clock tower and parts of the surrounding town become “unstuck” from Golarion.

Horology (Sp): A forecaster establishes a bond with an ornate timepiece such as a clock, hourglass, or sundial in which they store spell effects called predictions. A forecaster prepares spells by calibrating the timepiece and casts his spells by reading the device. When a forecaster prepares his timepiece, he infuses it with a tiny fraction of fluid time — this creates powerful effects, but also binds them to his timepiece. If a forecaster attempts to cast a prediction without his bonded timepiece in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the prediction. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the prediction’s level. A forecaster keeps a list of all of his predictions in a special tome called an almanac. This modifies the alchemy ability.

Summon Paradox (Sp): At 1st level a forecaster can call upon his own future to aid in the present creating a short lived paradox. As a full round action the forecaster summons a duplicate of himself with his full hit points, copies of his current equipment, and is treated in all ways as a summoned creature. The forecaster and his duplicate share all limited class abilities such as bombs and predictions as well as consumable magic items or items with charges. A forecaster can summon a paradox for a number of rounds per day equal to his level + his Intelligence modifier. When the paradox ends the forecaster is staggered for a number of rounds equal to the duration of the paradox. This ability replaces mutagen.

Better Late Than Never (Su): At 2nd level during any surprise round where a forecaster would not normally act due to a failed Perception check he acts last, regardless of his initiative result (acting in the normal order in following rounds). This ability modifies swift alchemy and replaces poison use and swift poisoning.

Tightly wound (Su): A forecaster gains a +1 insight bonus to initiative. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level, and +3 at 8th. This ability replaces poison resistance.

Temporal Burst (Su): At 10th level the forecaster may take a standard and move action (or full round action) in a surprise round. This ability replaces poison immunity.

Discoveries: These discoveries complement the forecaster archetype: delayed bomb, eternal potion, extend potion, fast bombs, and spontaneous healing.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

Well, this is certainly weird and creative.

Summon Paradox: This needs clarification about how often you can use it and how long it lasts. Is the level + Int rounds your duration you can use per day, or is it X times per day and lasting that many rounds each time?

Better Late Than Never: This ability looks like a penalty rather than an ability... unless you mean "if you can't act in the surprise round because you failed a Perc check, you DO get to act in the surprise round, but you go last in the surprise round." Which I suppose is an appropriate trade.

Okay, time-manipulating stuff is hard to do in the game, but you set this up well, and you successfully linked it to the River Kingdoms. Good job!

I DO recommend this archetype for advancement.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Scott, much like the crown, I really like this submission. The strong tie to the RK, the cool aspect of predictions, a good slate of interesting, creative and relatively well-balanced abilities. Monkeying with time is very hard to do in gaming and you managed to bring some of the flavor of that without introducing the normally whacked-out mechanics required to bring the concept to life. Risky area to play in as a designer and you did it very well. This is a professional submission.

I DO Recommend this archetype for advancement.

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

Scott, you made the Top 32 and you deliver with probably my favorite of the alchemist archetypes! Full marks for taking a tough topic and designing interesting abilities while retaining RK flavor and getting all three judges interested in your approach and creativity.

I DO recommend this archetype for advancement.

Second Uringen archetype. And also interesting in a different way.

My primary gripe: alchemists don't prepare nor cast spells. Which means that Horology should be rewritten because it replaces alchemy, not modify it.

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

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Simply fantasticque exposition! I love this archetype - great tie-in, well done time abilities. Elegant design with very tricky subject matter. Entirely Superstar. Well done Scott! Or do I write this later?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

As I mentioned with the Uringen Assayer, I tried to think of a Uringen alchemist when the Round 2 rules were announced and didn't come up with anything I like.

But, just as I liked the assayer, I think this also did a great job with it. I really like the flavor of the change to the alchemy ability. I love changing the extracts to predictions and the formulary to an almanac.

Am I reading it right that mechanically, you have to have the timepiece with you (it is missing rules for replacing the item, but I'd probably match it to a wizard's arcane bonded item) to cast, but in return you don't need to worry about mixing up reagents and drinking them? I'm not sure if that might be a slight power drop? Also, I kind of want the timepiece to be able to do a little more too; right now I feel like it might be a slight reduction in power though you can overcome the penalty if you don't have it with you.

I like the Summon Paradox power; my read is it works for that many rounds per day, which don't have to be consecutive. Seems like a really strong power -- probably moreso than a mutagen -- but thematically it fits really well.

I'm also assuming Better Late Than Never works in the matter Sean suggested. If so, I like that and a good use of a time power.

Tightly wound seems a bit of a letdown (and also doesn't say at what level you get it).

Concerns aside, I think this is definitely one of the best of the round. Nice job.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 8 aka nate lange

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well written and good template use.

you got all three judges approval, so congrats there, but i respectfully disagree with them. i think there are some balance issues they might be overlooking. namely- action economy. the ability to duplicate yourself is very powerful, it allows you to iterate with bombs, move and cast a prediction all in one round (just as an obvious example). offering this at first level makes it even worse- a wizard with a 1 level dip would potentially have 4 or 5 rounds of this pretty early on- imagine being able to cast 2 fireballs per round at 6th level...

in my opinion, this archetype is clearly more powerful than the base class is ripe for abuse.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka surfbored

I have to agree with Nate on this one, Summon Paradox feels way over powered, and is open to level dipping. I assume the duplicate can't also summon a duplicate, since you say, 'in all ways as a summoned creature', but you may want to state specifically so.

You don't give a limit to the number of duplicates you can summon. And the duplicate always has full HP, even when you don't?

At 10th level, you'll get three full actions before the end of the first round, if there is a surprise round. (One from your summoned duplicate during the surprise and then one for each of you during round 1.)

You also used a lot of words on Horology when I think stating it works as an Arcane Bond might've done the trick. Tightly Bound should come before Better Late Than Never; I'm surprised the judges didn't ding you for that after pointing out missed periods in other entries.

Having said all that, I like your theme, but you need to tighten this up before I'll let any of my players use it. You might still get my vote, after I finish reading the rest if the entries.

Good luck!

Have to say, I really like the overall theme of the Forecaster. I'm a sucker for anything time based and would love to play this at some point.

What I'm surprised at is no one has mentioned the really fatal flaw with Summon Paradox. Though I think the idea is brilliant, it has some flaws. Let us take a gander:

Scott Fernandez wrote:
The forecaster and his duplicate share all limited class abilities such as bombs and predictions as well as consumable magic items or items with charges.

Picked up a super awesome scroll? Have no fear! Clone yourself and have your clone use it. Get the effects of the scroll and still get to keep it? That's just a tad too good. And just imagine, when you get your Staff of the Magi (lol), you could clone yourself, send Mr. Suicide-Bomber-Clone in or yourself out and forecast that your clone will break the staff, which he will.

All said and done, you easily won my vote. Best of luck for the next round, sincerely hoping you get there!

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

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I read that the opposite way, Nocovaine. If the duplicate uses the scroll (or expends a charge or throws a bomb), it gets used up for both of you.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Locke1520

Jacob W. Michaels wrote:
I read that the opposite way, Nocovaine. If the duplicate uses the scroll (or expends a charge or throws a bomb), it gets used up for both of you.

That's how I read it too.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Locke1520

I'm not quite through reading entries yet but this is the most creative I've seen thus far. Way to bring the Superstar mojo! I really like the re-flavored alchemy and mucking about with time without mucking up the game.

This is an easy vote. Congrats on making the top 32. After the last two rounds I'm really looking forward to your round three monster. No pressure, and good luck.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Epic Meepo

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Well, this archetype certainly demonstrates creativity, but...

I have to completely disagree with the judges' recommendation. Did they just skip the entire horology paragraph when judging this archetype? The horology paragraph isn't a class feature; it's a wish-list of game mechanics that weren't actually included in the archetype.

Alchemists don't cast spells. You can't just declare that your archetype grants spells to a non-spellcasting class without stopping to explain how that works. You can't wave your hands and say, "Oh, by the way, this non-spellcaster casts spells now. Of some sort, off some list, somehow... On to the next ability."

That's not a game mechanic; that's a rough outline telling the developers that they have to invent an entire spellcasting mechanic from scratch if they actually want a finished archetype. And that text would push this archetype way past the word count limit if it were actually included.

This reads like an entry that was hundreds of words too long, so multiple paragraphs were condensed into a single block of text written in shorthand. This archetype would be way too long if it actually included the game mechanics for the horology ability instead of just implying things and hoping readers subconsciously fill in all the gaps.

This archetype doesn't even say it replaces the alchemist's extract ability! As written, a forecaster gains some sort of unquantified spellcasting ability in addition to all of the normal alchemist extracts. Nothing that needs to clarified for this archetype to work is actually written anywhere.

This archetype should NOT advance; it's not even finished.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

There's a lot of good stuff in this archetype, but there are a couple of things that will probably mean that I won't vote for this archetype.

Despite the Uringen connection, I don't think this archetype manages to capture the feel of the River Kingdoms. It'll feel out of place anywhere except that one town which doesn't even exist half of the time.

The flavor in the horology ability seems forced - you still get the same extracts (if I understood correctly), they're just called something else. I.e. you change the flavor for flavor's sake, hardly any mechanics attached.

Moreover, Summon Paradox and the later ability mess up the action economy. Anything that gives your extra actions is powerful. Anything that gives you extra full-round actions at 1st level is madness.

Anyway, good luck in round 2! Getting all three judges to recommend you to advance is no small feat. :)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Epic Meepo

Mikko Kallio wrote:
The flavor in the horology ability seems forced - you still get the same extracts (if I understood correctly), they're just called something else. I.e. you change the flavor for flavor's sake, hardly any mechanics attached.

Interesting interpretation, but even that doesn't fix horology.

If horology is supposed to work like the normal extract ability (which I can't tell for sure because it doesn't actually say that), there are still a ton of mechanics that are being glossed over or omitted:

Instead of drinking the extract, you now read it from a timepiece? So what happens if you're in the dark? You suddenly can't use your extract because you can't see your timepiece?

Except, wait. It says you can "cast your spells" without your timepiece. So you don't actually need to read your timepiece at all if you pass the appropriate check? So you're an alchemist who can "drink" his extracts even if he doesn't have them in his possession? How is that balanced?

And do you use the alchemist's normal extract list for your reskinned extracts? If so, why? What does beast shape I have to do with liquid time? "I can move outside time, so suddenly I'm a wolf." Wait, what? The alchemist extract list is completely off-theme.

None of this makes any sense. If this were a wizard archetype that created an arcane bond with a timepiece or a witch archetype that granted a timepiece familiar, I could maybe see it working. Maybe. But none of this timepiece stuff has anything to do with alchemy. Assuming it even works in the first place, which I doubt.

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

I will give general impressions, but with 3 areas of particular focus that suit my personal interests. Archetype and ability names: do they show flair? How closely tied to the River Kingdom is the archetype? And last but certainly not least, do I want to play this archetype?

Archetype and ability names: Strong. Clever names, thematically coherent, tie to RK.

River Kingdom tie: Strong. Inspiration from a unique place and executed well.

Desire to play: Average. Part of what holds this back for me is that I don't understand what Horology is. I think it's like Mikko says, but I'm not sure. Eric's concerns about it also seem valid. And sure, I want to play with the Paradox, but it does seem overpowered. I suspect that the staggering afterwards is meant to balance it, but it won't take many levels for that to come after combat ends. The ideas here are very appealing, but I'm not sure they actually work.

As Epic Meepo points out, the Horology ability is incomplete and/or references abilities that the normal Alchemist does not receive. The Paradox is an extremely powerful ability with few limitations and is available at level 1. The ways that this archetype plays with the action economy strike me as problematic. Also, most of what this archetype is trying to do has been done better by the Time Thief and Time Warden classes and their various archetypes.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

Good: Balanced, well written, well designed in mechanics and well tied to the Riverlands.
Bad: The timepiece bit and the time theme just doesn't grab or excite me.
Ugly: You took some of the most alchemist parts of alchemist away, I just wouldn't play this.
Overall: I'll vote for this if I don't find 8 others I love.

Sovereign Court Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Wow... This archetype gives out a strictly better version of a 6th level spell at level one. That's totally balanced, right?

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 9

What a twist! At first glance, it's full of flavor and neat mechanical choices.

But when you really read into them... all of them are terribly balanced. Breaking action economy! turning extracts into spells, somehow! (side-note, I love the idea of alchemists casting out of a focus instead of from extracts, but your mechanics about the whole thing are wonky).

Your three last abilities, which are pretty minor in comparison, are all awesome. It's those first few, with all the abusable rules that make it weird.

I'm on the fence with this. Good luck!

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6 aka Evil Paul

I've been umming and ahhing about this all afternoon. Yes, it's a really cool archetype. Quite awesome really in the concept. And yes, I am willing to overlook minor technical errors or minor power imbalances (either too weak, or too strong).

But that said, the Horology ability is just so hideously overpowered I can't even fathom how you thought it was balanced, and I can't also fathom why none of the judges picked up on this. You get to do two actions a turn... that's like quickening every action, every round, for free. Plus additional move actions, item activations, whatever. It's actually much more powerful than Twin Form (linked above by Illeist), and closer in concept to Time Stop (9th level) the way it breaks action economy. And you can do it in every combat. By the time you are 10th, you'll probably have it up for every round of every combat, excepting the rounds it takes to cast.

(And there was the "spellcasting" issue, but published authors seem to have made that mistake with the alchemist, so I'll more happy to let that slide).

But then again, it is fixable. Eg, have the double only able to do move actions, and then later on, have it able to do standard or move, but not full round actions. Also tweak the number of rounds/day you can use it, lower, and with one activation/day only.

Something like that still allows the awesome concepts to shine, and it is an exciting archetype.

Will I, won't I vote for it... hmmm. Probably yes, but only just.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka theheadkase

This is wonderfully creative and it is a VERY difficult subject...kudos for doing it somewhat manageably!

I've got the reactions as Nate and Eric Morton. When I saw the duplication effect, my jaw dropped...and not in a good way. In a worried way.

I haven't got more to add that isn't already said, so with that:

Overall, you've got the creative. You left the mechanical (odd considering this archetypes focus on timepieces) at home. Good thing you can still cast without it!

I DO NOT recommend...but I will not be sad if you progress. I'd be interested in seeing your Round 3.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8 aka Cyrad

This archetype possesses great ideas, but I feel like it deserves more serious thought.

Horology has many serious implications and raises many questions. It means Discoveries concerning extracts don't work, like Infusion. Since it's an almanac and no longer a formulae book, the alchemist can't learn spells from other spellbooks. I also can't see why any player would want this ability. Aside from changing extracts to spells, all it does is give all of the negative aspects of an arcane bond without any of the benefits. Maybe I'm missing something here?

It does get points in my book for attempting something daring: messing with time mechanics on a fairly unusual arcane class and doing it with a strong sense of flavor and style.

Star Voter Season 6

My god this is overpowered. I can't fathom how it got recommendations to advance.

A level 1 ability that doubles your combat prowess. I really don't like someone who can alpha strike with 6 bombs in 1 round at level 3. And that is without even considering multiclassing.
Full round action in the suprize round, combined with always getting to act is a clear power boost from poison use.
I mean, you give up mutagens and poison use, but for any bomb or caster focused alchemist this would be a no brainer.

I like this class. Almost seems like a good wizard alternate rather than alchemist.


I agree that this is an interesting archetype idea, but it has some severe flaws.

When I first read Horology, I didn't understand what it was supposed to do. I kept expecting the term "prediction" to be defined somewhere, and it never was. I guess they are exactly the same as extracts, but with a different name? That needed to be spelled out.

Summon Paradox is definitely broken. Especially with the initiative bonuses and the surprise round abilities. I have a prediction of my own: everything dies in round one.

So I'm afraid I can't vote for this one over some of the others that have made my vote list.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

I have to also disagree with the judges. While it does have a strong RK tie in, other than that, it didn't work for me. First of all, the things already pointed out - alchemists don't have spells, so modifying their extracts doesn't work as written. Summon paradox is unbalanced (as is pretty much every attempt I've ever seen to create a duplicate of yourself to get multiple actions in a round), and as Basilforth says, this really reads like a wizard, not an alchemist. I simply don't see any connection with what an alchemist does.

Also, the bonus to initiative and surprize round powers aren't really that exciting - they effectively only affect 1 round of combat, since after that everything is cyclical - and the classes that really benefit from that the most are those who sneak attack and have battlefield control and/or area of effect spells, which are often much more effective before an enemy can react, spread out, etc. An alchemist has none of these reall - bombs are sorta AoE, but pretty small areas and limited effect after the main target - not really the same as a fireball.

While I loved your wondrous item, the archetype didn't work for me.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka primemover003

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Thanks everyone for their comments and feedback. I knew tackling anything time related was tricky and would be loved or hated. I do admit there were a few places I would like to have tightened up some wording and one where I flat out omitted a line.

Horology at its simplest is as Mikko Kallio put it reflavoring the Alchemist. In all other ways predictions are extracts minus the mixing and drinking. I copied and pasted the verbiage straight from Alchemy and changed the names. At its more complex end its a limitation on the forecaster's more powerful ability. By binding their predictions to their timepiece it gives a way to disrupt their casting as it's a (Sp) ability.

Summon Paradox is definitely powerful, but again it's (Sp) thus disruptable. Also when I say full round action I meant 1 round action, which are effectively the same thing in game terms. The Paradox does not appear until just before the forecaster's next turn like summon monster spells. I was originally thinking of only allowing the paradox to have mundane copies of gear but the duration it lasted and the amount of times per day it could be summoned were greater. I decided to go big. Giving up a full round then being limited to only a standard or move action afterwards should balance it out.

As it stands currently at first level with a 15 or 20 point buy you'd only be able to use this ability maybe 3-5 rounds a day. That's only a single combat on average if you go nova. That wouldn't leave much left in the tank for 4 to 5 more average encounters though. Looking back I think Intelligence modifier + 1/2 levels (minimum 1) might be more balanced for rounds per day.

The +1 insight bonus to initiative from Tightly Wound should have stated "at 2nd level."

Temporal Burst is an effect the cavalier can give to the whole party via the Lookout (Teamwork) feat at 1st level. An inquisitor can do it at level 3. I don't think full round actions at 10th level in a surprise round is entirely inappropriate for that level of gameplay at the high end of the sweet spot.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 aka Wolfwaker

I really like this one. Nice blend of flavor and mechanics. You can summon yourself!

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

Scott, now that I we are waiting on round four rules before we tackle more design work, I am reading these archetypes more thoroughly and commenting on them. I always think you're a hoot when I see you in the forums and I'm intimidated by competing in the Top 16 with such a fun and likable guy.

I really like the concept of the forecaster. The terminology you use like forecaster, prediction, and almanac are fun and evocative. It looks to me like you left a lot of words on the table. Why not add some timey or divination spells to the alchemist's list?

In other feedback I hope might earn us a revised version of the class, I think if you modify a class feature you have to point out precisely what's different, what's been given up, and what remains the same.

I agree with most that the extra actions from summoning a future version of yourself seems strong, even if for a limited number of rounds per day. I'd like to ask why you chose this ability? It seems maybe you could just swap out with your future your future more powerful self has either the extra time or desperate need to come into the past and fix something you're about to do wrong. But then, you could add that description to the regular mutagenic form (stronger, smarter, cooler you). So, why not different bonuses instead of a less believable future you, who ostensibly would have more abilities, different magical items, etc.

I think you could keep going with the initiative bonuses. Why stop at +3?

This is great idea with mojo and flavor and I'm glad you made it to the next round.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka primemover003

Thanks for the compliment Steven. I am used to seeing you throughout the rules and advice forums as well.

I was bouncing a few different ideas around when I came up with the mechanics for Summon Paradox. I actually had a few that covered very similar ground as the Uringen Assayer (enhancement bonus to speed). I think I went with the summons because I wanted to go in a different direction than things I had seen in the oracle Time mystery. The "same time, same place" trope from Timecop and the fission psionic power and reverse of the fusion ability from dragonball z lead me to treat 2 of me on the board at once as a summon monster spell.

Your double is only a possible you from the immediate future. When it goes poof its timeline is probably erased... but that's too complicated to try and explain so I treated it a summons. Its already in the game and easily understood.

I've been a GM for an effigy master wizard and summoning druid in 3.5 and have played a master summoner in Pathfinder so I was aware of how action economy and high initiative scores (my players crank Init to the max regularly) can effect power level.

While I've seen plenty of PCs go nova I've always been more of a resource manager and I don't allow a 15 minute adventuring day. If a player burns through all his summoning time and limited resources in one encounter they'll likely be rolling a new character before the end of the session. Also if a player totally mops up an encounter I just roll with it and adjust further encounters to compensate. I normally play with a large group so I'm used to scaling up encounters from published material.

Star Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8

I feel like this archetype would be well-served by some spell list changes compared to the basic alchemist, though clearly in something with such limited wordcount that's nowhere near the highest priority of stuff to include.

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