Huckster (Alchemist)


Round 2: Design an archetype

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Demiurge 1138

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Huckster (Alchemist)
Wherever poor folk have limited access to medicine, there will be people willing and able to exploit that need. The huckster typically uses his alchemical talent in the pursuit of profit, whipping up remedies that last long enough for him to collect his fees and leave town.
Class Skills: A huckster gains Bluff and Perform as class skills and does not gain Disable Device and Survival as class skills.
Snake Oil (Su): At 1st level, a huckster can spend one minute brewing a magical concoction known as snake oil. A dose of snake oil can be consumed as a standard action by any creature. Drinking snake oil grants 1d6 temporary hit points per two huckster levels. These temporary hit points last for 10 minutes per huckster level.
A huckster can create a number of doses of snake oil per day equal to 3 + his Intelligence modifier. Multiple doses of snake oil do not stack. A dose of snake oil is rendered inert 24 hours after it is created. This ability replaces mutagen and persistent mutagen.
Secret Recipe (Ex): At 1st level, a huckster can craft alchemical items that are difficult to identify. A character examining an alchemical item crafted by a huckster must succeed a Craft (alchemy) check equal to the DC of constructing the item in order to determine the item’s function. No check is necessary to identify the function of an item being used. This ability replaces Throw Anything.
Tainted Brew (Su): At 6th level, a huckster can take one minute to transform an ingested poison or drug into a dose of snake oil. The duration of the snake oil is treated as the onset time for the poison or drug. This ability replaces swift poisoning.
Cure-All (Su): At 10th level, a huckster’s snake oil can suppress harmful conditions. Any creature that consumes a dose of snake oil is treated as if no longer affected by the following conditions: blinded, deafened, exhausted, fatigued or staggered. In addition, any negative levels possessed by the creature are temporarily lost, as are penalties to ability scores due to age. Once the duration of the snake oil expires, all negative conditions suppressed by the snake oil return with no reduction of their durations. This ability replaces poison immunity.
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the huckster archetype: concentrate poison, dilution, infusion, lingering spirit*, poison conversion**, spontaneous healing*
*this discovery appears in Ultimate Magic.
**this discovery appears in Ultimate Combat.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

I love the idea of this archetype, it is a great fit for an alchemist.

Snake Oil: Brilliant. Less useful than mutagen, but you can pass it around, and it totally fits the idea of snake oil making people feel better. (Though you don't need to say multiple doses don't stack, that's a default rule in the game.)

Secret Recipe: This fits the theme, though I'm not sure how useful it is.

Tainted Brew: This ability isn't totally clear. I think you mean "you can disguise a poison or drug as snake oil so it takes effect when the snake oil wears off." If that's the intent, cool. If that's not the intent... huh?

Cure-All: Brilliant. Not sure about the power level (may want to scale it like mercies), but it really fits.

I think this needs a little more of a tie to the River Kingdoms, even something as minor as "Many who fail to graduate from Daggermark's poisoner's guild use their limited knowledge of alchemy to make a living peddling temporary and false cures." But I like the theme, and the mechanics feel right.

I DO recommend this archetype for advancement.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Initial Impression: Oh for goodness sake, it's a snake oil salesman! That is hilarious! Perfect for alchemists and for the River Kingdoms. Problem is, you didn't really tie it in to the River Kingdom. I have a funny feeling you worked up your archetype before the end of Round 1 in the hopes of making it to this round and then you didn't change it. This could be one of the top 5 of the round if it had more River Kingdoms tie ins, but as it is it is solidly in the top pack of archetypes that should advance.

I DO Recommend this archetype to advance.

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

Congrats on Top 32, Nicholas, and congrats on delivering one of several cool alchemist archetypes! I think the huckster is a great theme to work up, it fits the RK region, and it could be fun to play.

Design-wise, I think free healing from snake oil is interesting and entertaining, though in practice for adventurers, temporary hp is pretty darn close to regular hp in a dungeon or other dangerous environment.

I DO recommend this archetype to advance.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

Still just reading through everything at the moment, but...

I've just spent like 20 minutes looking for it unsuccessfully, but doesn't the Guide to the River Kingdoms mention at one point about a city/town fleecing crusaders of all their cash before they head into Mendev? That's what this one made me think of, but it's driving me nuts that I can't find it despite searching for Mendev, crusader, broke, coin, pilgrim, etc...

I swear I remember this passage; please tell me it doesn't exist only in my head?

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

Jacob W. Michaels wrote:

I've just spent like 20 minutes looking for it unsuccessfully, but doesn't the Guide to the River Kingdoms mention at one point about a city/town fleecing crusaders of all their cash before they head into Mendev? That's what this one made me think of, but it's driving me nuts that I can't find it despite searching for Mendev, crusader, broke, coin, pilgrim, etc...

I swear I remember this passage; please tell me it doesn't exist only in my head?

I think it's Gralton you're looking for:

Guide to the River Kingdoms - Gralton wrote:
Gralton is known to be a desperate place, and its reputation draws outsiders who hope to take advantage of such emotional people. Religious speakers, swindlers, and self-proclaimed miracle-workers f lock to the small kingdom seeking followers or a fast fortune. Unscrupulous peddlers come from other parts of the River Kingdoms or more distant lands, bringing cheap medicines and good luck charms that are usually worthless, as well as maps and news of unreliable quality.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

Thank you, Ziv! I think that's absolutely what I was thinking of. That last sentence definitely reads huckster to me, and I assume it's where Nicholas got his inspiration.

(I also realized I was merging it with a bit from Numeria in the ISWG, which is why I was getting confused: The Technic League knows that Chesed is Numeria’s last chance to milk zealots for their coins, whether via swindling merchants or bandits on the river, and many are the crusaders who pass over the border into Mendev with only their weapons and their faith.)

Back to the archetype itself, I think I like it. It reminds me a bit of the charlatan and con artist archetypes in 2011, but I really like using alchemist as the base class.

I'm not sure how useful it would be as a PC choice -- after all, it doesn't cure anything, though I guess getting temporary hit points instead of a stat boost/penalty works -- but I think it's strong enough to overcome that.

I suspect I will vote for this.


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When I saw this I immediately thought of Deadlands Huckster and started to wonder why it is Alchemist instead of Bard :P

Nice idea. Needs some polishing. For example, as written snake oil does nothing at 1st level as it does state minimum of 1d6 temporary hit points. granted. Or was it intended to grant 1d6 temporary hit points plus 1d6 per two levels beyond 1st to follow bomb damage progression.

DON'T ANSWER. At least not before the voting ends.

Marathon Voter Season 6

I feel like I've seen this one before, huh.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Locke1520

I wish the tie to the River Kingdoms was a little more explicit but I can certainly see hucksters easily making a living in the stolen lands or in Gralton (mentioned above) so I won't hold that against you.

Besides, I really like this one! It's not an archetype I would expect to want to play...but I do. I immediately imagined an on the run scoundrel who get's knotted up with a party of adventurers and discovers (against his own will) that he might just be hero material after all.

Congratulations on making the top 32 and Good luck.

Contributor

This is pretty neat, but isn't Golarion supposed to be a high-magic setting? Is there need for a snake oil salesman when every common priest can cast a healing spell? The abilities are fairly sound and while I like this archetype, it doesn't have me super excited because I've seen this concept before. This archetype is an alchemist-flavored Razmir Priest.

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

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I've given most but not all of the archetypes a first pass, and this is my easy favorite so far. I think it's a great fit for both RK and the alchemist. So much so for the alchemist that it seems like it should exist already.

More important than any of that, I think this would be a lot of fun to play. A lot of the other archetypes just don't have that.

Trouble, my friends, right here in River City.

Yeah, I'd have me some fun.


Cheapy wrote:
I feel like I've seen this one before, huh.

I think that SmiloDan or Epic Meepo done a alchemist-healer archetype that replaced bomb with ability that granted temporary hit points or healed. It could be someone else, though.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Locke1520

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
This is pretty neat, but isn't Golarion supposed to be a high-magic setting? Is there need for a snake oil salesman when every common priest can cast a healing spell? The abilities are fairly sound and while I like this archetype, it doesn't have me super excited because I've seen this concept before. This archetype is an alchemist-flavored Razmir Priest.

As was pointed out during Curse of the Crimson Throne the economics of healing magic sometimes precludes "everyone" having access to everything they need...besides someone like these guys would persuade the gullible that their product was better than the temple's.

"Have you ever seen a temple that wasn't gilt in gold? Me either! Where do you suppose they get that wealth? That's right off the backs of common hard working men and women like you and me. I'm just a man like yourself trying to make my way in the world. I'm here offering you vitality for copper's on what the temple expects you to 'donate.' 'Donate' now there's loaded a word for you...and the priests can't even regrow your hair!"

Shadow Lodge Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7

This is incredibly beautiful and I love it.

Contributor

Andrew Marlowe wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
This is pretty neat, but isn't Golarion supposed to be a high-magic setting? Is there need for a snake oil salesman when every common priest can cast a healing spell? The abilities are fairly sound and while I like this archetype, it doesn't have me super excited because I've seen this concept before. This archetype is an alchemist-flavored Razmir Priest.

As was pointed out during Curse of the Crimson Throne the economics of healing magic sometimes precludes "everyone" having access to everything they need...besides someone like these guys would persuade the gullible that their product was better than the temple's.

"Have you ever seen a temple that wasn't gilt in gold? Me either! Where do you suppose they get that wealth? That's right off the backs of common hard working men and women like you and me. I'm just a man like yourself trying to make my way in the world. I'm here offering you vitality for copper's on what the temple expects you to 'donate.' 'Donate' now there's loaded a word for you...and the priests can't even regrow your hair!"

That doesn't help me much because I didn't start following Paizo until 2009 or so. Plus I run my own games; I don't use Adventure Paths. (Exception: Carrion Crown; I love me some Wes-style horror and Jacobs-style Lovecraft!)

That said, I still am not crazy about this archetype. I think the underwater alchemist submission was better.

Marathon Voter Season 6

I like it.

I dallied with this same idea when I was kicking around potential ideas for round 2. (I called mine "Carpetbagger".) I gave it up, and went a different direction because I couldn't get the mechanics to coalesce. I think you've done it very nicely.

I've reviewed a number of entries. This is the first that I'm certain will get my vote.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Locke1520

Alexander Augunas wrote:

That doesn't help me much because I didn't start following Paizo until 2009 or so. Plus I run my own games; I don't use Adventure Paths. (Exception: Carrion Crown; I love me some Wes-style horror and Jacobs-style Lovecraft!)

That said, I still am not crazy about this archetype. I think the underwater alchemist submission was better.

Sorry, I didn't mean that to come out like it did.

I know not everyone has read everything (I certainly haven't). But I do like it when I know where a tid-bit of info came from so I can go back and reference it myself.

As far as not liking the archetype that's cool. For me the the underwater alchemist just doesn't do it for me and i don't know why.

We have different opinions and I'm okay with that. Hopefully my previous post didn't come off too bad.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka SmiloDan

Drejk wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
I feel like I've seen this one before, huh.
I think that SmiloDan or Epic Meepo done a alchemist-healer archetype that replaced bomb with ability that granted temporary hit points or healed. It could be someone else, though.

I have an Apothecary archetype for the alchemist that combines surgery and poisoning.

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

I like snake oil represented by temporary hit points lasting 10 minutes per level. The writing is evocative and the ideas are well thought out.

I like all the abilities save for 3 gripes. Tainted brew would make more sense if you stated that "The poison or drugs new onset time becomes equal to the snake oil's duration, taking effect when the snake oil wears off."

Also, shouldn't the secret recipe ability allow you to combine snake oil with common alchemical items?

Additionally, cure-all taking effect only at 10th level seems like a missed opportunity. I think it should have scaled and replaced poison resistance and poison immunity.

Its neither here nor there, but polypurpose panacea would have been the perfect effect to work into the archetype, and probably should have been what secret recipe did.

Based on the strength of the concept and most of the execution, I WILL most likely be voting for this one to advance.

Sovereign Court Star Voter Season 6

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Tainted Brew: This ability isn't totally clear. I think you mean "you can disguise a poison or drug as snake oil so it takes effect when the snake oil wears off." If that's the intent, cool. If that's not the intent... huh?

I'm sure he meant the first option Sean ... :)

I also think that it needed to have some sort of tie-in to the River Kingdoms.

So for me it's thematically "meh", but mechanically looks to be great fun (provided you don't end up in a party with a Paladin of Erastil and a Cleric of Abadar ... as they may have something to say about your dodgy Snake Oil ... LOL)

As most others have said, this would be a great fun archetype to play (with the right mix of other not-quite-law-abiding party members), and having fun is what it is all about.

Congrats on making the final 32 Nicholas and Good Luck :)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 8 aka nate lange

well written, good template use; the RK tie in isn't ever explicit (which, as Sean pointed out, could have been done pretty easily).

i think you did a good job designing a balanced archetype. i agree with others that there are some things that need clarification but their weakest interpretation isn't unbalancingly weak and their strongest interpretation isn't unbalancingly strong. as a matter of personal preference, i also think that expanding cure all to replace poison resistance as well (starting earlier and scaling up as you level) would have been cooler, but either way it remains balanced.

Marathon Voter Season 6

Drejk wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
I feel like I've seen this one before, huh.
I think that SmiloDan or Epic Meepo done a alchemist-healer archetype that replaced bomb with ability that granted temporary hit points or healed. It could be someone else, though.

I think that's it. Arcanemuses had a snake oil salesman which was different enough (and I recommended doing something with "illusory hit points"), and it's a somewhat popular design area, so it's probably just a gestalt of all these different alchemist archetypes I've seen.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Isn't there a Galtan priest prestige class that grants "fake" healing at temp hit points?

Scarab Sages Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7

I am really happy to see that I need to chose and re-chose this year to bring my list of 'ooohhh - looking good' entries down to those eight I can actually vote for, so I want to say: thanks to all competitors for providing a good chunk of fun looking archetypes.

Since I am a bit short on time this month, I will only comment on the Items I voted for.

If i didn't find the Idea so intriguing and the concept so much fun, I would have voted for something else - for me there are two reasons this archetype isn't as good as it could be:

1) Secret recipe does not look that useful - especially since the gullible villagers the huckster most likely exploits probably have no clue about alchemy anyway

2) I do not get the use of Tainted brew.

The Snakeoil, Cure all and the simple fun of the concept make up for these problems, though.

Good luck with the rest of the contest.

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

I will give general impressions, but with 3 areas of particular focus that suit my personal interests. Archetype and feat names: do they show flare? How closely tied to the River Kingdom is the archetype? And last but certainly not least, do I want to play this archetype?

Archetype and feat names: Above Average. Not tied to RK, but excellent for the theme.

River Kingdom tie: A little below average. It's got that frontiersy thing going on, but not as closely tied to the RK as it could be.

Desire to play: Absolutely. This would likely be the most fun of any of the archetypes to play. Tons of RP material as well as cool abilities. And just plain out fun. Fits in a wide variety of adventuring scenarios. The theme is exceptionally well realized.


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I looked at the name and thought, "Alright guy lets see what you got."

It was quite the bold choice for an archetype name and I do believe you hit it squarely on the head -- I would hold this up as a textbook example of how to make an archetype. Well done.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

Good: Love the flavor, writing, concept and execution here.
Bad: Voters might not be keen on voting for or playing a con artist.
Ugly: As mentioned scaling the conditions snake oil will delay/temp cure would make this more balanced.
OVerall: This is one of the ones I am considering voting for


I have to say I think this is one of the most interesting archetypes here. It has my vote! Good luck in the future rounds.


Orthos wrote:
This is incredibly beautiful and I love it.

I agree. Now I just need a concept for a Huckster character.

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

huchster is in my top 8 but i have to say it is the best of all 32, and i would love to play one some time. hope you make it


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Drejk wrote:

For example, as written snake oil does nothing at 1st level as it does state minimum of 1d6 temporary hit points. granted.

Duh. I meant that it doesn't state a minimum of 1d6 points. Posting critique at 04:30 wasn't the brightest idea I could have.

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 9

This is a really fun class, both for a more chaotic PC or a villian, or an NPC. I'll echo everyone's complaints about the lack of a proper RK tie-in, but otherwise... I think you did a great job. You made an archetype with a very meaningful choice (temporary HP, or temporary stat boosts?), and nothing in it screams abuse.

Good luck in this, and future rounds!


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I guess nobody else read "Hulkster (Alchemist)" and thought of little kids drinking mutagens to become more like Hulk Hogan?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka theheadkase

Wow...I am glad I didn't make it to this round because I have an Alchemist archetype that is a lot like this. Different enough that it would only be similar but too close for comfort!

That said, this is just brilliant. Flavor and theme. Mechanics are pretty good. Echo what Sean pointed out.

Seriously, I may PM you when this round is over if you wouldn't mind with my archetype just to get your opinion. You nailed this so hard!!

I like that this entry makes you think just a bit to get the RK connection...but like Sean said a passing sentence would have served beautifully to patch that hole.

I DO recommend...and I'm voting for it now!

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

I think this is pretty good, even though the "not really a healer" archetype seems a bit played out - it reminds me a lot of Sean McGowan's evangelist bard archetype from 2011, which gave bards more healing, not alchemists fake healing, but it still was improving the healing ability of a non-primary healer. Fortunately, this is an alchemist, not a bard, and the game always has room for more non-cleric healing.

Secret recipe doesn't seem very useful - since a huckster isn't going to be selling their snake oil to other alchemists anyway, and if you cut it, you'd have had more room to make cure-all scale up instead of resist poison until you got to 10th level with poison immunity.

Otherwise, pretty good job - even with the weak RK tie-in, a huckster would certainly do well in the RKs though. I'll be voting for you.

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Clark Peterson wrote:
Problem is, you didn't really tie it in to the River Kingdom.

Sorry Judge but the rules don't say, must have RK tie in. This was a point I wish had been cleared up earlier.

Still clear as mud!

Sczarni

This is a brilliant archetype. It's my choice for this round's "Publish Immediately" entry.

Grand Lodge Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Not a great surprise after reading the name, but its prime ability develops reasonably well.


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Like the Everbloom Monk, this archetype achieves perfect River Kingdoms feel through mechanics instead of forced flavor fluff.

Like the Skinchanger, this archetype provides a balanced mechanical identity for a figure that already exists in popular imagination -- an archetype!

Like the Scallywag, this is a charming idea that I would love to play.

My absolute top-favorite of the 32.

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 9

Aaron Miller 335 wrote:
Clark Peterson wrote:
Problem is, you didn't really tie it in to the River Kingdom.

Sorry Judge but the rules don't say, must have RK tie in. This was a point I wish had been cleared up earlier.

Still clear as mud!

Check out the bullet points (specifically the fourth one) at the end of the round rules.

rules wrote:
Submissions may be disqualified for ... [being] not suitable for the River Kingdoms region of Paizo’s Pathfinder campaign setting.

So, while this archetype could absolutely be seen in the River Kingdoms (which is why it wasn't disqualified), the Judges wanted it to say something more along the lines of: "In the river kingdoms, Hucksters..."

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

100% Flavour.
100% role play.
For the player with flair and quick wit.

I can almost hear "Sorry to drink and dash but ...." as the character's catch phrase.

I love it but Tainted brew needs clarification.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8 aka DeathQuaker

Love this one, really solid. Not a big fan of alchemists in general but this works and fills an obvious niche. Replacements work and is pretty balanced.

Since Bluff and Perform are gained, I'd love to see something done with them in the class, like a bonus to convince people to consume something they oughtn't. This isn't necessary and I don't know what ability it'd replace, but it seems like it would be appropriate for the concept.

I too would love to have seen the RK mentioned more explicitly, although I can see how it fits in (both in a criminal and frontier landscape).

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Demiurge 1138

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Thank you all for your comments, praise and criticism alike! I'm happy to see that there was such a strong positive response to the huckster. There are definitely things about it I would change in a future draft, though.

River Kingdoms... or lack thereof: My thinking was based on the Round 2 rules text "suitable for use in the River Kingdoms". I was inspired by the mention of snake-oil salesmen in Gralton and other impoverished provinces, but I didn't want to tie the archetype down too much. Looking back on it, I could easily have made the connection explicit in a sentence, and should have.

Secret Recipe: Sean didn't seem to quite understand the purpose of this ability, and there were a number of other voters who also responded negatively to it. My thinking was that it would allow the huckster to smuggle alchemical items into places where they weren't allowed; see the large number of cities where poisons are contraband.

Snake Oil: Yes, the snake oil is supposed to scale up like a bomb, starting at 1d6 at 1st level and progressing at odd-numbered levels. That was completely an oversight on my part.

Tainted Brew: I realized upon rereading it that tainted brew was sort of vague. Yes, the idea is that the poison grants snake oil benefits until the duration wears off, whereupon it affects the target like a poison. If I had my time again, I would absolutely change the wording on this.

Cure-All: I debated whether or not to make this ability scale like a paladin's mercies, but decided against it because I didn't want to risk taking too much from another class (not to mention take up more word count!). Looking back on it, I'm still not sure if I would change it to scaling.

Again, thank you all for your feedback! Maybe I'll see you in Round 3!

Star Voter Season 7

Starfinder Superscriber

Voted for this as I loved the idea!

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