Would you feel violated?


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Starfinder Superscriber

Ah thanks for the clarification there Nepherti. But with that DM, I'd never play, and I'd hope that if talk got out and about others wouldn't either, but I'm a strong believer in social consequences.


As a Gm I am trying to think how I would handle a situation - where an NPC attempted seduction and the Player felt uncomfortable about it...

Depending on how I wanted the players to feel about the NPC at the end of the encounter I would do it a little something like this.

GM: Sir Gareth smiles at you, his eyes promise a night of mischief, his long muscular arms beckon you to the dance floor, you know deep inside if you follow him out there into that swirl gowns and music, you will not return to your lodgings until sunrise.

GM: opposed diplomacy to resist his attempt at seduction. Ohhh Sir Gareth gets a natural 20 +8 for diplomacy. You can make a will save or diplomacy what ever is higher... Oh a 5...

Player: Ummm I dont feel comfortable with this....

GM: The knight inclines his head to one side he can see he has made you uncomfortable.

Sir Gareth: One thousand apologies my lady I did not wish spoil your evening, I was intoxicated by your grace and beauty and was carried away by the songs and merriment. I shall bid you good evening.

The tall handsome knight bows deeply smiles a cheeky smile and disappears into the swirling dancers.

If I wanted them to hate the NPC I would have him be rude about the rejection.

I wouldn't push it past that.... nobody wants the game to be unfun.


I'd feel violated, and would probably go about telling everyone of the slimeball who would do such a thing.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Nepherti wrote:
DQ, the system is practically identical, but this wasn't a magical compulsion, it was apparently a simple Manipulation + Persuasion vs Composure + Empathy.

I figured. What I am saying is that with an open ended, powerful magic system, there is little to stop a GM like that from ALSO using that magic system to get away with nasty things.

I pointed it out because Jessica Price was noting it is inappropriate for the GM to take over the PC's actions except in the cases of magical domination. Which is true. But if you were to say that to that kind of GM, I am afraid he would then take away the message that he wouldn't be allowed to get away with the social roll crap any more, but would then use what he was told was "sanctioned"--mind domination--to do the same thing. It wasn't an analysis of what happened, it was concern about what could in future.

I would prefer to say simply that you don't cross boundaries related to sex, triggery matters, and other matters of personal intimacy without the explicit consent of the other players, regardless of any rules.

As an aside, I am not bashing WOD itself. It is a creative system and like most RPGs, in the hands of good players it can be a lot of fun. But it expects its players to self-regulate, and those who can't may abuse its open-ended system to try to get away with ridiculous things even more easily than in some other game systems.

And let me make absolutely clear, this is NOT the game system's fault. This or worse could have happened in any game. It is the GM's, for being a lecherous, disrespectful, emotionally abusive asshat.


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Nepherti wrote:

I'm an old wod girl myself, but even our Sabbat LARP knew when to draw the line. We had 15 year old theatre kids in that game. One guy tried to rape an npc in character,and he got his sheet ripped up in front of the whole group if 40 players.

You just don't do that.

HELLS YEAH OLD SCHOOL WOD!!!!

Also, yes, he should have been smacked hard. That said, I avoid LARPing.


I just hope my feelings about this guy don't affect Monday Pathfinder. We are both players in that and have found ourselves at odds. Most of my anxiety related threads have been triggered by this guy.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Freehold DM wrote:
Nepherti wrote:

I'm an old wod girl myself, but even our Sabbat LARP knew when to draw the line. We had 15 year old theatre kids in that game. One guy tried to rape an npc in character,and he got his sheet ripped up in front of the whole group if 40 players.

You just don't do that.

HELLS YEAH OLD SCHOOL WOD!!!!

Also, yes, he should have been smacked hard. That said, I avoid LARPing.

Off Topic:

Spoiler:

I miss my old WoD days (if you google DeathQuaker, you should come up with a big list of (paraphrased) archetypes, merits, and flaws from the old system). But when they first blew up the Wraith universe (Wraith was the first big, real, lengthy RPG campaign I played in ever, and I felt like WoD had just flipped me the bird and told me to go shove what I loved about gaming and their world in particular up my posterior), and then decided to end the line by "destroying the world" in the metaplot, that left a bitter taste in my mouth for a long long time. Nothing's worse than having someone tell you something you loved just doesn't exist any more, all of your characters are dead, everything you worked and played toward doesn't matter because we took the reins and took it all from you, it isn't valid anymore, go look at this other thing. (I think I feel a similar way about DC Comics' New 52, except DC didn't indirectly kill off all my PCs that I put loads of work into). DON'T GET ME WRONG--I think the oWoD was getting to be a bit of a mess and they were done with it. But why they couldn't have just said: "this line is over, we are rebooting in a new continuity. We hope you will enjoy the new world as well as the old one." Without, you know, taking a big giant crap on everyone who loved the old one. (Also, I think people think similarly about Forgotten Realms, come to think of it.)

It's a shame because I think nWoD system wise has some good stuff to recommend to it, but even once I got over my own bitterness, no one else I knew wanted to play anymore. In fact we all went back to D&D, and now Pathfinder. We'd gotten soured on an entire genre of gaming. Sad.

As for LARPing, I used to theater-LARP a bit in the old days, including some Mind's Eye Theater stuff. Much like with tabletop, if you have a good GM/moderator, you can have a great time (and lousy if the person running it doesn't know what they're doing). Amazingly we had a very low creepy jerk ratio. They were out there, but I think the worst one was ultimately banned from playing with the local groups, and the others drifted away without having to be told (or were told privately and not much was made of it. I miss it on occasion--for the good times--but it was a lot of work for people to run and most folks I knew who were good at running them got older and had to leave the scene to focus on work/family/etc.

Nepherti wrote:


I just hope my feelings about this guy don't affect Monday Pathfinder. We are both players in that and have found ourselves at odds. Most of my anxiety related threads have been triggered by this guy.

Illigitimi non carborundum, Nepherti! Don't let the bastards get you down.

If he is causing a long term problem for you, I hope you can talk to your GM and work it out with your group. Good luck.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Nepherti wrote:

I'm an old wod girl myself, but even our Sabbat LARP knew when to draw the line. We had 15 year old theatre kids in that game. One guy tried to rape an npc in character,and he got his sheet ripped up in front of the whole group if 40 players.

You just don't do that.

HELLS YEAH OLD SCHOOL WOD!!!!

Also, yes, he should have been smacked hard. That said, I avoid LARPing.

Off Topic:

** spoiler omitted **...

Spoiler:
Then we may indeed know one another from another life. I was big into werewolf stuff and I was active on the forums. I am sorry your preferred setting died, especially as it lead to the creation of my own preferred setting, hunter the reckoning.

Also.. What do carbonated beverages have to do with this? Are they wrong somehow?


If you guys follow my posts in other threads, you will know I am no prude. Far from it actually. When I played Nepherti Beit Shairut, I went to the GM (Mr. N) and told him to get her captured and tortured by the Dominatrix Hermaphrodite Pharaoh, so to create a dramatic 3rd act hitch in her revolution against the dynasty.

There was plenty of planning, trust, and it was fun. all with dice rolls, in case you were wondering lol. But there was OOC consent. I think that is the ultimate moral here.

With the game in question, there are two players in the game who agree with the GM, but I really don't think they should count since one is his girlfriend who this is only her second RPG ever. The other is basically a PC/NPC.


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Time to find a new GM and a new game.


I'd recommend to your friend that she leave...after one more session. During that session she should roll every time possible to convince the NPC's to do something, and when she succeeds they kill themselves, another major NPC, go on live TV to announce the existence of vampires/werewolves/mages, anything and everything to screw that story up. If Captain Creepy complains, point out it's what he did last week and he seemed ever so happy to play it that way then. In character her character is having a massive nervous breakdown over the whole being seduced against her brain thing, so it's justified IC.

And when the session is done/he throws a giant hissy fit over things not happening how she wants, she leaves (and preferably gets a restraining order).


JonGarrett wrote:
I'd recommend to your friend that she leave...after one more session.

Actually, the friend is a he. Don't think that changes anything, however.


Not even a little, other than I can't read.

Silver Crusade

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Nepherti wrote:
Dominatrix Hermaphrodite Pharaoh

Go on...


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Sounds like a bad situation. Violated is a strong word, but I think it can apply. Your DM's behavior is the kind of thing that has me wanting to apologize for my entire sex.

Best of luck dealing with this.


Mikaze wrote:
Nepherti wrote:
Dominatrix Hermaphrodite Pharaoh
Go on...

Queen Aliyah of Stygis. She murdered her husband so that she would rule alone. Any enemy of the realm is taken to her bedchamber and tortured. Once she tires of them, they are taken to the Temple of Sobek, mummified alive, and thrown to the crocodiles. There the souls are consumed and an afterlife is not granted.

This happened to Nepherti's mother.


Nepherti wrote:

GM: *rolls social dice pool and wins challenge against PC*. I win. Now your character has to have sex with *insert NPC here*

Player: what!?!? My character would never do that.
GM: those are the rules. If I win a roll, you comply.

Would I feel violated? If those are the rules of the game ("social" rolls and loser must comply, etc), then no.

But then, I'm wise enough to make sure I know what type of game I'm getting into beforehand, so I can avoid creepy rule systems like the one above (misinterpreted rules or otherwise - if the rules are that vague, then forget it).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
Nepherti wrote:
this GM is super charismatic, egotistical, he plays in a game I am part of run by a mutual friend (who just happens to be the player whose character was forced into sex). this is this guy's first time GMing.
He needs a sit down and to be informed that this is not okay for future games. Or a busted kneecap that implies this.

What the person did in this instance was wrong. Answering the situation with unneeded violence isn't any better.


The actions of the GM as described by Nepherti seem creepy. I have never played WoD and don't what the norm is for that system, but it would irritate me if this happened to a character of mine (absent something stronger than mere persuasion). Perhaps the GM in question is just a jerk, but maybe talking to him about this might resolve the problem. Communication is good.

Editor

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Arnwyn wrote:

Would I feel violated? If those are the rules of the game ("social" rolls and loser must comply, etc), then no.

But then, I'm wise enough to make sure I know what type of game I'm getting into beforehand, so I can avoid creepy rule systems like the one above (misinterpreted rules or otherwise - if the rules are that vague, then forget it).

Victim-blaming.

The fault isn't the game system or that the player in question was "foolish" enough to play that game. The fault is squarely with the GM, for using the rules to break real-world boundaries.

In most gaming groups there's a social contract where regardless of the rule system used, there are lines you don't cross—either you work them out in advance or, if you're friends, you may already have a good sense of each other's limits. Example (trigger warnings!):

Spoiler:
You're playing a game that lets you travel to the real world. The GM could by the game rules surprise the players by having the party happen upon a player's actual family, and describe the player's loved ones being tortured and killed in eloquent detail. Why's that player upset? After all, it's legal by RAW!

No. RAW aside, you just don't spring upsetting things on people without discussion beforehand.

From experience, creepy GMs and players like this will find ways to be creepy regardless of the system. And even if their actions are deemed illegal, they can't unsay them, so it still sucks to be on the receiving end. Sorry you're having to deal with this, Nepherti, and hope you can resolve matters with your other group, too!


Given how often how my game involves social rolls and court intrigue, I can certainly imagine having an NPC attempt to seduce a PC, and relying on dice rolls to decide the outcome. I just can't imagine running said encounter with a player who I wasn't absolutely sure would be okay with the outcome.

As Judy said, there are creepy people on both side of screen; I personally can remember telling a player that, yes, there would be more than one brothel in a town that size, but no, I wasn't going to describe the price list (or anything else) for him.

Liberty's Edge

I agree, very creepy. Could have been handled much better.

If I was the GM, I would have talked to the player out of game, asked her what I had planned, and only if the player was OK with it, I would have gone ahead. But I would have done it with all the sex stuff happening off screen. All the players need to know is the PC and NPC are an item. But you never force something like that on a player.

I am not defending the GM here, but it may have been something that he wanted to roleplay out. (the romance, not the sex) But the GM did not really know how to do it, so He made a seduction role for the NPC.

Reminds me of a game I played in that I left after a couple of sessions. I was playing a diplomat/ spy. I told the GM I use my diplomacy skill to get info from someone at a party. I rolled, made a very good role, but the GM asked "what do you say to her to get the info you need?". I told the GM "well myself, the player is really bad at social situations and I have no idea what to say. The character I am playing is a master at social situations and would know what to say." The GM would still not give me the info, even though I made the role in game. He wanted me to play it out. But I had no idea how to do that at the time. So I got frustrated and left the game.

Maybe the same type of situation here? But in the case the GM did not know how to play it out so he went with a role.


But it wasn't a romance, it was another npc saying "here's a hooker I have here just for you. sleep with her". Or at least that's the impression I got.

Assistant Software Developer

I removed a post. THat jab wasn't necessary.


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Ross Byers wrote:
I removed a post. THat jab wasn't necessary.

So threats of physical violence are cool, but jokes are offensive? Alright, weird policy but that's your prerogative.

Project Manager

Where was someone in this thread threatened with physical violence?


My feeling is that the GM stepped over the line but its difficult to judge. You haven't given a lot of background info. This appears to be a social game situation issue, so i would say depends a little on the game system and a lot on the social game situation.

It also depends how personally you identify with the PC as to how personally violated you feel. Would you feel violated if the result was you agree to break your sacred oath and reveal the secret formula enabling the bad npc to poison the towns well supply? In this instance as i understand it you were new to the game? the player objected, did they object because they felt uncomfortable with the ruling on control or the sex or because they felt the GM had the rules mechanic wrong ?

In some ( ok most) social game situations I would consider the idea of mental domination leading to sex inappropriate but not all. Sometimes the playing group does accept this as ok.

I don't really understand the game system. If the system was that on failing the roll the character became mentally dominated and lost their free will, and the social game situation allowed rape ( as well as the usual murder and torture) to be part of the game then it might be ok.

I have run a game (D&D 3.5 rule set) where a bunch of good pcs were disguised as evil, it was set at the time in a drow city marketplace where I ( male dm) had a charming but evil male drow vampire charm/ seduce a PC ( female human fighter - played by female player - a friend) and teleport her away to his city apartment, for nefarious unspecified purposes. She rolled back to back 20's on diplomacy rolls while the charm was being set up and failed her save - so i ruled he became obsessed with her ( maybe i had watched too much Buffy or read too much True Blood and Anne Rice ). The other players ( including her husband and my wife) panicked and tracked her down. When they burst into the apartment a short time later the encounter was resolved without fighting and through role playing. The player of the fighter defended her new 'friend' and despite numerous dispels and being taken away she couldnt clearly recall what happened and maintained he was just misunderstood etc. It set up a great role playing session that continued on as she adopted the typical vampire victim/star crossed lover role. Eventually some demons captured the vamp and you guessed it the PCs were gearing up for the rescue mission.

All the players loved it. It added to the game. It wouldn't have been possible without player/ GM comfort. I acknowledge we never mentioned sex, I deliberately made that time when she was first captured blank to allow people to read into it what they felt comfortable with.

If I hadn't felt comfortable, and the players hadnt felt comfortable we would have missed out on some good flavor to our game story.

Now as I read vampires the non horrible brute ones nearly always have a sexual component to their behavior, the obsession, the domination, the seduction, the feeding etc. I just felt if we were going to deal with smooth talking vamps it would include that element if it came up. Of course I credit the player with much of that interaction. Had she decided upon being rescued to pull out her sword and skewer the evil creep I would have rolled the dice and played out the fight. Or even earlier if she had indicated a lack of comfort with the seduction side of the domination i would have made him less the charmer and more the black & white villain. But the starting point, the Npc seducing and taking away the pc was a path I took as GM that I was able to take due to the social game situation.

Silver Crusade

Nearly 30 years ago I moved to London and made some friends. AD&D had worn out it's welcome for me, and I was looking forward to trying other systems which would be strong where AD&D was weak.

This group played Middle-Earth Role-Playing, and I rolled two PCs so I could join in. One was a human male Ranger called Havoc, the other was an Elven female archer called Résil (Daystar; inspired by Tínuviel and Undomiel-Dawnstar and Evenstar).

Our group played a few adventures and had a great time. We usually played all-night sessions and they could be quite long.

One session, two players I'd never seen before turned up. They seemed to have a more, um, 'evil' play style than I cared for, and I was very tired, I ended up falling asleep.

When I woke up, the two new players had gone home, and the GM casually informed me that Résil had been raped. By the characters run by those two players.

WTF!!! What the heck do you mean? She's a warrior, she can handle herself. The rest of the party would have stopped it, etc. etc.!

'Yeah, I made all the rolls, she was taken by surprise, and anyway it's too late to do anything about it; you shouldn't have fallen asleep.'

I was incandescent. I said that Résil could not live with the shame and committed suicide, and Havoc went on a killing spree.

I'm not suggesting that my response was a good one. It was the response of a boy who wasnt experienced enough to think of another way to respond. I would hope that I have learned to cope more effectively with such situations in the intervening decades.

But I never forgot my fury. And I've never even approached putting others in a similar situation in game.

Nepherti, the GM needs talking to; his behaviour is inappropriate and unacceptable. He may be improved after being shown the error of his ways, in which case you've done some good. He may continue to be a total tool, in which case the players can vote with their feet and leave his game, maybe even disinvite him to the games where he is a player.


CapeCodRPGer wrote:

I agree, very creepy. Could have been handled much better.

If I was the GM, I would have talked to the player out of game, asked her what I had planned, and only if the player was OK with it, I would have gone ahead. But I would have done it with all the sex stuff happening off screen. All the players need to know is the PC and NPC are an item. But you never force something like that on a player.

I am not defending the GM here, but it may have been something that he wanted to roleplay out. (the romance, not the sex) But the GM did not really know how to do it, so He made a seduction role for the NPC.

Reminds me of a game I played in that I left after a couple of sessions. I was playing a diplomat/ spy. I told the GM I use my diplomacy skill to get info from someone at a party. I rolled, made a very good role, but the GM asked "what do you say to her to get the info you need?". I told the GM "well myself, the player is really bad at social situations and I have no idea what to say. The character I am playing is a master at social situations and would know what to say." The GM would still not give me the info, even though I made the role in game. He wanted me to play it out. But I had no idea how to do that at the time. So I got frustrated and left the game.

Maybe the same type of situation here? But in the case the GM did not know how to play it out so he went with a role.

Yeah, I had a diplomat war mage (a good build truly, explosions or chatting) and with the numbers involved, sometimes you just have to describe what you intend, the words don't come to you. It is a weaker form of roleplaying but I can't act like a charisma 20 +25 to diplomacy person, that is a pure tongue of silver.

Having said that, sometimes you get into it, have a laugh and try your best. Or you just roll and say c'mon let's move this along, the rules say nothing about having to pass a theatre audition.


Nepherti wrote:
But it wasn't a romance, it was another npc saying "here's a hooker I have here just for you. sleep with her". Or at least that's the impression I got.

Hmm, this hooker is not to my taste.

Actually if a dm is trying to get the creepy seduction/impossible to resist hooker there is another way to confuse dm, shut it down and hopefully move the game on.

My character is not interested in that sex. Yep, pretend your character is gay/lesbian/whatever you need to be shut down the seduction.

The brave knight tries to seduce a foxy sorceress, sorry, she is only into female witches.

The rogue with perfect facial hair and eyes promising a good night is going for your cat-like thief, sorry, only into high-born ladies (their beds are very comfortable).

The hooker with the massive "French braids" is luring in your fighter. Nope, this swordsman has a thing for older gruff guys. He was stationed in Los Velagos for a time, and what happens in Los Velagos stays in Los Velagos, but you always want to return.

You can jump species too. The paladin declines, he has always had a thing for lizardfolk, ever since witnessing one bathing as a young man.

The ninja is not going for that, he has a fey lover in the woods of *point at map*. The things you can do when you are invisible from prying eyes.

The wizard would be interested, but he is on a quest to get total fire protection so he can lay with a fire elemental. His master summoned one once and he has become obsessed. It is really a big deal for him.

The jolt of upsetting the dm's creepy hetero/opposite gender rapes or seduces you approach, there is an opening there by clarifying your characters interests. I have seen the "my character is gay, not interested" played before. If they start to talk about being persuaded or if that is on your sheet, you can use the first distraction/performance to mount a better defence "whose character is this by the way? They will be interested only in what I say they are".

Escape the net, throw the tanglefoot bag.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Nearly 30 years ago I moved to London and made some friends. AD&D had worn out it's welcome for me, and I was looking forward to trying other systems which would be strong where AD&D was weak.

This group played Middle-Earth Role-Playing, and I rolled two PCs so I could join in. One was a human male Ranger called Havoc, the other was an Elven female archer called Résil (Daystar; inspired by Tínuviel and Undomiel-Dawnstar and Evenstar).

Our group played a few adventures and had a great time. We usually played all-night sessions and they could be quite long.

One session, two players I'd never seen before turned up. They seemed to have a more, um, 'evil' play style than I cared for, and I was very tired, I ended up falling asleep.

When I woke up, the two new players had gone home, and the GM casually informed me that Résil had been raped. By the characters run by those two players.

WTF!!! What the heck do you mean? She's a warrior, she can handle herself. The rest of the party would have stopped it, etc. etc.!

'Yeah, I made all the rolls, she was taken by surprise, and anyway it's too late to do anything about it; you shouldn't have fallen asleep.'

I was incandescent. I said that Résil could not live with the shame and committed suicide, and Havoc went on a killing spree.

I'm not suggesting that my response was a good one. It was the response of a boy who wasnt experienced enough to think of another way to respond. I would hope that I have learned to cope more effectively with such situations in the intervening decades.

But I never forgot my fury. And I've never even approached putting others in a similar situation in game.

Nepherti, the GM needs talking to; his behaviour is inappropriate and unacceptable. He may be improved after being shown the error of his ways, in which case you've done some good. He may continue to be a total tool, in which case the players can vote with their feet and leave his game, maybe even disinvite him to the games where he is a player.

Urgh, disgusting. The no one helps you or acts as their character would actually have acted "what are you two doing to that woman, prepare to die curs!", it has already happened, your character could do nothing and couldn't defend herself despite being capable every other time danger emerged. Well I can understand why you would be really mad.

Did Havoc kill both of the others on the killing spree?


Loyalist, and the player has tried that. His character has plenty of reason to not go for the hookers. The Creepy GM doesn't care because the dice say the player has to do the hooker.

But, my friend did say a conversation between him and Creepy GM made everything make sense. My friend GM's for the fun of the table. He accommodates all players to the story he has, he will build things that are custom tailored to your character. He even overhauled half his plans to accommodate Creepy's character (LE Gnome Sorcerer).

Creepy, he makes a world. He builds his NPCs, but in essence they are all just a slight variation on Creepy's manipulative mentality. My friend has said he feels like putting a bullet between the eyes of even those npcs meant to help him. No one ever gives a straight answer. In Creepy's eyes, its his world, you are just playing in it. what he wants to have happen will happen. He even said he was very surprised when for the Monday game his gnome got such a plot arc. He would have been happy just interacting with what was already there. It seems to really be all about the power boost to him. And, from me talking to Creepy, he thinks I shouldn't be gaming since i cant seem to separate the character from me.


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Huh...Weird. I've met and played with several people like that before. Their games are usually involved, but it gets impossible to do something because it really is THEIR world. It may be time for this guy to get from behind the screen not just because he's creepy, but because he can't share the spotlight.

Silver Crusade

3.5 Loyalist wrote:
Did Havoc kill both of the others on the killing spree?

No. : (

Neither those characters nor their players were ever heard from again.

Havoc went down south on a solo adventure and 'went on tilt'!

Before this incident, Havoc (Dúnedain human) and Résil (I forget which kind of Elf, but I rendered her name in Quenya because I couldn't find the Sindarin for 'day') were romantically involved (I had just read the story of Beren and Lúthien).

One of the other players played an elf, and was jealous that a mere human should have the love of the most beautiful Elf alive at the time (102 appearance out of 100; this was before the time of LOTR and Arwen).

After one adventure down the mines of Moria, Résil was injured in the head (those crit tables were viscious!) and taken to Rivendell to be healed. The Elf player persuaded Elrond to subtly change Résil so that, when she recovered, she no longer loved Havoc. : /

The GM thought that Elrond would go with this idea!


Jessica Price wrote:
Where was someone in this thread threatened with physical violence?

First page has several posts suggesting busted kneecaps and other violence be inflicted upon Nepherti's GM.


Would I feel violated by loosing a control of a characters and them having sex with an NPC?

No, more than I would feel violated by my character dying to poison, or a dagger in the back, or in the heat of battle. There is nothing innately wrong with it, and some games greatly benefit for such elements of drama.

I might well be left with a feeling of violation by the circumstance. If I had signed up for combat focused, dungeoneering game, at a local games club, the DM had shown an inappropriate interest in the subject, and this happened, I would politely excuse myself, regardless of being the subject or not.

But if I, and everyones else at the table have signed up for a high intrigue game about member of a noble court, and their petty squabbles, and we all new ahead of time that our characters would be subject to social skills, then I would not mind.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Nepherti wrote:

Loyalist, and the player has tried that. His character has plenty of reason to not go for the hookers. The Creepy GM doesn't care because the dice say the player has to do the hooker.

But, my friend did say a conversation between him and Creepy GM made everything make sense. My friend GM's for the fun of the table. He accommodates all players to the story he has, he will build things that are custom tailored to your character. He even overhauled half his plans to accommodate Creepy's character (LE Gnome Sorcerer).

Creepy, he makes a world. He builds his NPCs, but in essence they are all just a slight variation on Creepy's manipulative mentality. My friend has said he feels like putting a bullet between the eyes of even those npcs meant to help him. No one ever gives a straight answer. In Creepy's eyes, its his world, you are just playing in it. what he wants to have happen will happen. He even said he was very surprised when for the Monday game his gnome got such a plot arc. He would have been happy just interacting with what was already there. It seems to really be all about the power boost to him. And, from me talking to Creepy, he thinks I shouldn't be gaming since i cant seem to separate the character from me.

I'm starting to wonder if this guy's bordering on sociopathy. He's charming, manipulative, very centered on his own power and his ability to shine and control, and if you try to call him out on poor behavior, he turns it around on you. Maybe I am only assuming he is also incapable of empathy, compassion, or regret. Is he?


DQ, its hard to tell. After some thought, it seems related to his own sense of pleasure at the situation. For the past year we've been smoking buddies, and he's always willing to share in that regard. But he did tell me once there are only two people in the world whose opinion he truly cares about. I was trying to open up one car trip, talk about how bad I felt over something, and get advice, but he had none because he said his brain don't work that way.


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Nepherti, take Mr Nepherti and your friend away from that 'person'. Only stick around if that would mean leaving your friend alone with Mr. Creepy.

Post Caius Edit: People sticking around GMs like Mr. Creepy - from Mr. Creepy's perspective - are affirming his GM style, a.k.a. 'enabling'. Don't be an enabler for such creatures.


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Seconding Turin. I've had to deal with way too many people like that and it becomes toxic not too soon after.

Contributor

There are two issues here. One is the rating your particular game has. It's not a matter than bad things can't happen in the world, but certain bad things can't happen to the characters because they will squick the players too much, making the game unfun.

The other is that short of magical mind control, characters will not act out of just because someone succeeds a social challenge. A character who is morally opposed to one-night stands is not going to have their morals do a 180 spin just because someone is extremely charismatic.

This also goes with NPCs. And the GM is also free to tell exactly the sort of tale he wants to tell. I have many times done, "Yes, you seduce the barmaid. The next morning...."


Kevin, and it wasn't even that it squicked my friend. His character is dating another PC, and they are always having sex, apparently. It was more the lack of magical control. He comes from a strong d&d background, and this is his first WoD game, so he at least partially didn't realize what the strictest definition of the rules will let you get away with. There is actually nothing in the books about how to deal with player issues and play styles. It expects you to figure that out for yourself.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Having played White Wolf since before it first became White Wolf, I would actually say that by strictest definition, no the rules don't allow that. Unfortunately in this instance the Storyteller rules were/are written with the understanding that there is a lot more communication & social contract between the Players & the Storyteller than seems to have been observed in this case. I'm going to have to chime in with the 'leave this guy's game' crowd on this one.


Irnk, I apologize, you are more than likely right. I was just going by the section in NWoD core rulebook pg 82. Success on a persuasion means you convince the subject to accept your assertions. It bears no mention as to the degree the subject accepts.

I'm tired. This guy is plaguing my concentration. I haven't been able to get anything done for days.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

No worries. Take deep breaths. Dump the problem, not your agency. Hope you guys get a chance to play with a Storyteller who isn't a creep.


Nepherti wrote:

I should probably reword that to super manipulative. this guy makes friends easily, is a social butterfly. incredibly charming, I had a crush on him when we first met, he was very likable and funny.

now, I doubt my ability to call him friend.

Avoid.

Psycopaths.


Nepherti wrote:

Loyalist, and the player has tried that. His character has plenty of reason to not go for the hookers. The Creepy GM doesn't care because the dice say the player has to do the hooker.

But, my friend did say a conversation between him and Creepy GM made everything make sense. My friend GM's for the fun of the table. He accommodates all players to the story he has, he will build things that are custom tailored to your character. He even overhauled half his plans to accommodate Creepy's character (LE Gnome Sorcerer).

Creepy, he makes a world. He builds his NPCs, but in essence they are all just a slight variation on Creepy's manipulative mentality. My friend has said he feels like putting a bullet between the eyes of even those npcs meant to help him. No one ever gives a straight answer. In Creepy's eyes, its his world, you are just playing in it. what he wants to have happen will happen. He even said he was very surprised when for the Monday game his gnome got such a plot arc. He would have been happy just interacting with what was already there. It seems to really be all about the power boost to him. And, from me talking to Creepy, he thinks I shouldn't be gaming since i cant seem to separate the character from me.

Yeah, I get that I really do. One dm I gamed with for a while, and equalizer can attest to this, this chap's npcs were cowardly, violent, unhelpful and cared nothing for the pcs, even when we really helped them out. Guess which character traits they shared with the dm? All of them. He came through really strongly. It was a challenge to be sure, but there wasn't much roleplaying rewards. The dm was being like that in game so he could deal with what was happening to him in the real world, and have a strong sense of control and show his malevolence. He lost his players, I led the exodus.

A really good dm can be all sorts of people and not everyone is the same. For a poor dm, every npc is him or connected to his hive mind (if you will) utterly.


I read the first post, saw dice pool and was like, "Wow, someone's offended they're using seduction rules in a Vampire the Masquerade game?"

But yeah after reading that just sounds awful.

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