Tengu Exotic Weapon Training


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Couldn't seem to find an existing thread, but could be my search-fu's a bit weak this morning.

In the Advanced Race Guide, tengu have an alternate racial trait (replacing Swordtrained) that lets them pick a few eastern weapons to gain proficiency in. I don't have it in front of me, but it's come to my attention that it specifies a single page in Ultimate Combat.

This page, as I understand it, contains a table of martial weapons (but not exotic), but also contains the descriptive text of some weapons whose tables appear on different pages.

So, which weapons are legal choices? Is the tengu ability supposed to specify a page range instead of a single page and the guy I heard from just had an older printing? Does it refer only to the weapons in that page's table? Does it refer to weapons whose descriptions are on that page but which don't appear on the table?

Anyone know the intent here? Any developer commentary, or anything?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I read it as just the Eastern-flavored weapons from UC here. There are 17 exotic weapons on the list, but 4 of them are variants of "sword" which would be covered under Swordtrained (which gets traded out, mind you).

Edit: On closer inspection, the first sentence which seems a bit 'fluffy' states that Tengu train in "exotic" weapons, but the next simply states that they choose from the list of Eastern weapons (not Eastern Exotic weapons, but simply Eastern weapons). It's a little ambiguous as to whether the term "exotic" is used as a proper term to describe Exotic weapons in the system or whether it's used generally to describe Eastern Weapons (both Martial and Exotic) as being foreign. So, yeah... FAQ material I guess.


Exotic Weapon Training: Instead of swords, some tengus are trained in exotic weaponry. Such tengus choose a number of eastern weapons equal to 3 + their Intelligence bonus, and gain proficiency with these weapons. This racial trait replaces swordtrained.

Eastern weapons are here.


Currently the PRD says the alternate racial trait is as follows:
"Exotic Weapon Training: Instead of swords, some tengus are trained in exotic weaponry. Such tengus choose a number of eastern weapons equal to 3 + their Intelligence bonus, and gain proficiency with these weapons. This racial trait replaces swordtrained."

The PRD doesn't reference any pages or tables, just "eastern weapons" which seems to reference the full table in Ultimate Combat.


After looking it up on pfsrd, the wording is:

"Instead of swords, some tengus are trained in exotic weaponry. Such tengus choose a number of eastern weapons equal to 3 + their Intelligence bonus, and gain proficiency with these weapons. This racial trait replaces swordtrained."

That itself seems pretty clear; pick 3+int mod Eastern weapons and become proficient. It doesn't specify what kind of weapons they have to be, so simple, martial, or exotic wouldn't even factor in to which Eastern weapons you could pick.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Seriously guys, read the OP. I know the PRD doesn't list a page number, but the actual book does. That's where the issue comes in: not everything you guys are linking appears on the page the book cites, so by what rationale do you include the rest of what you've linked? I imagine you might be right, but let's put some thought into this (after all, if the ability really doesn't mean just that one page, it should be errata'd).

Dark Archive

Oladon wrote:
ARG: Tengus wrote:
Exotic Weapon Training: Instead of swords, some tengus are trained in exotic weaponry. Such tengus choose a number of eastern weapons equal to 3 + their Intelligence bonus, and gain proficiency with these weapons. This racial trait replaces swordtrained.
Eastern weapons are here.

You have not quoted the book. You have quoted a non-Paizo paraphrase of the book. As Jiggy mentions, there is a page number quoted in the ARG, and the Eastern Weapon section of Ultimate Combat does not look like the page you linked on the same non-Paizo site.

I like d20pfsrd, but you can't make rules arguments based only on what's on the website.


Actually, no, my quote is not a paraphrase and is taken directly from the PRD (official Paizo source). Please feel free to click on the link "ARG: Tengus" to verify.

The second link was provided as a list of "Eastern weapons", all of which (individually) are drawn from Paizo sources, as such.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

I was operating under the understanding that the ability itself applied to all Eastern weapons, and the page reference was just meant as a helpful guide to where one might find a table of Eastern weapons. It seems a safe bet given that the PRD does not contain that page source.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Oladon wrote:
Actually, no, my quote is not a paraphrase and is taken directly from the PRD (official Paizo source). Please feel free to click on the link "ARG: Tengus" to verify.

To be fair, only the second link was in the usual "hyperlink blue" color. Like me, Mergy probably didn't realize the first link was actually a link. Thus, an assumption that you were quoting the site from which your second (more obvious) link was drawn.

Quote:

The second link was provided as a list of "Eastern weapons", all of which (individually) are drawn from Paizo sources, as such.

There are weapons in that list which are from the Core Rulebook, not labeled as "eastern" in any way. The fans who run that site chose to categorize them as "eastern", but that doesn't have any bearing on the issue at hand, because Paizo didn't categorize them in that way.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

To be honest, I was kind of hoping to attract the attention of Grick or Cheapy in case they had a link to a statement of intent or something.


Jiggy wrote:
To be honest, I was kind of hoping to attract the attention of Grick or Cheapy in case they had a link to a statement of intent or something.

I'm more curious as to how the book text is different than the PRD. Anyone have a PDF to see which one it matches?

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

It looks like this conversation was had to a certain extent in this thread so if anything discussed there helps contribute to this conversation... There you are.


So you would like to know if Tengus with this trait get proficient with Eastern martial AND exotic weapons, or just Eastern martial weapons.

Fair enough, but I can't answer that myself, because I don't know. In fact, the book should be referencing Ultimate Combat at page 130, where the section about Eastern Weapons starts.


Jiggy wrote:
Oladon wrote:
Actually, no, my quote is not a paraphrase and is taken directly from the PRD (official Paizo source). Please feel free to click on the link "ARG: Tengus" to verify.
To be fair, only the second link was in the usual "hyperlink blue" color. Like me, Mergy probably didn't realize the first link was actually a link. Thus, an assumption that you were quoting the site from which your second (more obvious) link was drawn.

Weird. Both show as links to me, but fair enough.

Jiggy wrote:


Quote:

The second link was provided as a list of "Eastern weapons", all of which (individually) are drawn from Paizo sources, as such.

There are weapons in that list which are from the Core Rulebook, not labeled as "eastern" in any way. The fans who run that site chose to categorize them as "eastern", but that doesn't have any bearing on the issue at hand, because Paizo didn't categorize them in that way.

Good catch. I was able to find this, which seems to be straight from Ultimate Equipment and is all nice and official.


Jiggy wrote:
To be honest, I was kind of hoping to attract the attention of Grick or Cheapy in case they had a link to a statement of intent or something.

I looked for a few minutes, but didn't see anything.

The PDF matches the book, referencing page 131 of UC.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A certain non paizo PRD site is going strange ways lately and im not so sure if it really is a reliable source anymore.
Just the same as there are mistakes in herolab sometimes or you really have to know the whole program.

In my experience judging the paizo rules strictness i would say it´s only the weapons from that table on UC page 131.

I don´t know what weapons are on that page, but its probably a questionable trade. Sometimes there is stuff like that, just like a cutlass is to resemble something like a short sword, but is not finessable. Or halflings speed giving -4 to jump and then getting +2 on acrobatics and climb, which can be traded for 30ft speed.

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