D&D PDFs and Paizo


Paizo General Discussion

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DigitalMage wrote:

There were never any PDFs of the 3.5 core rulebooks previously, so imagine that might be one reason why they are not available now (not sure whether AD&D core rulebooks were available previously).

Mind you the 4e core rulebooks were available previously and they are not up yet either (maybe WotC want the Essentials books up there instead).

I can say for a fact that Paizo was selling the ADnD DMG, PHB, and MM back in 2006 as I purchased them. I too would like to see Paizo selling the PDFs again as I purchased a number of them here as well. Here is for hoping.


With luck WotC will recognise that a limited distribution is a disincentive for a significant proportion of those who chose to move to pathfinder (and who would probably be a decent market for 3.5 PDFs).

I didnt take the comment from Steve Wiecks* as definitive as to whether the arrangement with OneBookShelf Inc is exclusive - I would have expected him to affirm it explicitly, were that the case. I took it to mean "You can only buy them from us at the moment".

* Steve Wiecks Quote:
Q:Is DriveThruRPG the only place to buy WOTC PDFs?

SW: Yes. D&D fans will have the best shopping experience at the DnDClassics.com storefront that we have opened in cooperation with Wizards, but all of the titles will also be available from DriveThruRPG and RPGNow. All of these stores are linked, so anyone with a DriveThruRPG account already has a DnDClassics store account and any purchases go into a common digital library accessible from any of the stores.


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R_Chance wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
They aren't hyperlinked (the 1st edition ones, anyway). They're straight scans of the original hard copies.
Too bad. I thought I read (EN World?) that they were. Oh, well. It's not like the original LBBs are all that big :)

I'm aware that my posts are a little off topic (sorry). But thought I'd clarify that, now I've played around with them a little more, the text at least is cutandpastable. However, I don't seem to be able to copy the maps and pictures (this is most probably user error).


Steve Geddes wrote:
R_Chance wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
They aren't hyperlinked (the 1st edition ones, anyway). They're straight scans of the original hard copies.
Too bad. I thought I read (EN World?) that they were. Oh, well. It's not like the original LBBs are all that big :)
I'm aware that my posts are a little off topic (sorry). But thought I'd clarify that, now I've played around with them a little more, the text at least is cutandpastable. However, I don't seem to be able to copy the maps and pictures (this is most probably user error).

You're forgiven :) By me anyway. That's good to know. As it is, I'm looking for a readable copy (which I'll probably print out in it's entirety) to eliminate wear and tear on my old boxed sets. I've got the original woodprint D&D box in excellent shape and a white box set in fair shape. Some of my supplements are getting a bit worn (Greyhawk for example) and could use some rest. PDFs of some other items would be nice of course and I imagine I'll end up with more than a few from the various editions...

Liberty's Edge

Sara Marie wrote:
There's a FAQ for that :)

Cool, I am glad to see that.

So unless someone had:
a) failed to download their PDFs,
b) had downloaded their PDFs, not backed them up, lost them and not immediately re-downloaded them,
c) had downloaded their PDFs, had backed them up, managed to lose them & their backup (house fire maybe?) and not had a chance to re-downloaded them since,
d) any of the above, and not had a chance to respond to Paizo's last chance download...
then the withdrawal of D&D PDFs by WotC from the Paizo website would not have deprived them of their purchased PDFs.

If someone did suffer from a) or b) then to be honest that person needs to accept that they have some responsibility in the matter. If someone suffered c) then I sympathise.

In terms of d) that communication of a last chance download, however small a window, was I believe more than those of us who purchased through One Book Shelf got, so those who took advantage of that window of download should be thankful to Paizo and WotC (as I imagine Paizo asked for such a window and WotC acquiesced).

FAO the Paizo staff:
Could I suggest some text be added to the top of the Downloads store page along with the other information about watermarks etc saying something to the effect of:

Warning! Paizo reserve the right to withdraw the sale of any PDF, and the ability to download that PDF even if previously purchased, at any time. We therefore strongly urge you to immediately download any purchased PDF and to back it up. Backing up a PDF is as simple as copying the file to an external hard drive, USB memory stick or other suitable digital storage medium, including burning to a CD or DVD.


R_Chance wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
R_Chance wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
They aren't hyperlinked (the 1st edition ones, anyway). They're straight scans of the original hard copies.
Too bad. I thought I read (EN World?) that they were. Oh, well. It's not like the original LBBs are all that big :)
I'm aware that my posts are a little off topic (sorry). But thought I'd clarify that, now I've played around with them a little more, the text at least is cutandpastable. However, I don't seem to be able to copy the maps and pictures (this is most probably user error).
You're forgiven :) By me anyway. That's good to know. As it is, I'm looking for a readable copy (which I'll probably print out in it's entirety) to eliminate wear and tear on my old boxed sets. I've got the original woodprint D&D box in excellent shape and a white box set in fair shape. Some of my supplements are getting a bit worn (Greyhawk for example) and could use some rest. PDFs of some other items would be nice of course and I imagine I'll end up with more than a few from the various editions...

I'm getting mine printed too. I'm currently trying to explain the double wraparound cover of D1-2 to my printer. :)

Nonetheless, I figure some people might be buying them for virtual use or to use on computers. The inability to cut and paste maps is probably something it would be good for them to know about ahead of time.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Gee man, the lengths you go to make sure everybody gets the message that WotC is the best thing that happened to humanity since Red Cross never ceases to amaze. :)

The 24h window was ridiculously short, double so for people who live several time zones away (the news hit in the middle of the night for us, and I didn't notice it until I returned from work in the evening).

It was a jerk move. No amount of trying of trying to convince us that it was all customers' fault is going to change that. And now those people did a 180 degree spin, likely because the "PDFs cause cancer" argument lost to the "We need to make some profit in the year we release no new books somehow, what are our options? PDFs? Yes John, we know, you pulled them but now please shut up because our paychecks are on the line, OK?" so it's a good moment for rolling eyes and poking fun at them. Again.

Because stupid business practices deserve to be pointed out and laughed at.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Jam412 wrote:
Now if WotC and Paizo could just work together to put Savage Tide into PDF format, I would love them both immensely. So much so, in fact, I would get a tattoo of a purple golem making sweet love to a Magic card on the rocky coasts of Washington State.
Wizards owns Savage Tide completely, and we delivered all of the electronic files to them at the conclusion of our contract. They don't have to work with us at all.

In a way, that's comforting. I started regretting that tattoo promise after putting it in writing.

Liberty's Edge

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Gorbacz you didn't quote anyone in your post, so apologies if you weren't referring to me, however, if my overblown ego is correct and I was the subject of your post :) ...

Gorbacz wrote:
Gee man, the lengths you go to make sure everybody gets the message that WotC is the best thing that happened to humanity since Red Cross never ceases to amaze. :)

You obviously misinterpret my posts then, I never try to make out that WotC are some amazingly good company, rather my posts try to provide a counterpoint to the lengths you seem to go to in order to paint WotC as some sort of evil villain of a company intent on causing harm and annoyance to their current and former customers. :)

Gorbacz wrote:
The 24h window was ridiculously short, double so for people who live several time zones away (the news hit in the middle of the night for us, and I didn't notice it until I returned from work in the evening).

I am not saying it wasn't short, the point I was trying to make was that it was more than DriveThru customers got, and if anyone benefited from that small window they likely had Paizo to thank for it - and that if WotC really were deliberately intent on kicking people in the groin for buying from Paizo they could have likely refused Paizo's request completely.

Gorbacz wrote:
It was a jerk move.

If you're talking about the original business decision to pull sale of PDFs then I am in complete agreement, I had a long list of WotC PDFs I planned to purchase as funds were available.

Gorbacz wrote:
No amount of trying of trying to convince us that it was all customers' fault is going to change that.

I don't believe anyone was trying to convince you that someone losing access to their purchased PDFs was all the customer's fault. However, I was saying that if someone failed to download and / or back up their PDFs then they should recognise that they have some responsibility (not all) in the matter.

And that it could even be argued that Paizo (and I would argue OneBookShelf as well) should perhaps make it clearer that PDFs can be withdrawn from sale and download and encourage customers to make backups. And no, I am not saying its Paizo's fault, but rather Paizo could perhaps look to make improvements to avoid such situations in the future (hence my suggestion of adding text to the Downloads store page).

Gorbacz wrote:
so it's a good moment for rolling eyes and poking fun at them. Again.

Ah, so WotC returning to PDF sales is just an opportunity to poke fun at them for their original business decision (again) and I guess to say "I told you so"? Okay, have fun with that.

Gorbacz wrote:
Because stupid business practices deserve to be pointed out and laughed at.

The decision to pull PDFs was stupid and at the time I was likely one of those to also point it out. I also contacted WotC customer services a few times asking if PDFs would go on sale again, so that they at least were aware that people did still want to legally purchase rather than pirate.

However, I don't believe you or I would argue WotC's decision to start selling PDFs again (i.e. what this thread is about) is a bad business practice to be "pointed out and laughed at".

Rather it seems to be WotC's decision to do so exclusively via OneBookShelf that you seem to have a problem with. Which is fair enough, however my problem with that is that:

a) neither of us has enough knowledge of the situation to know whether that is a worse business decision than selling via Paizo as well. Like I said in previous posts, I know previously DriveThru charged less commission if they were the exclusive distributor - so maybe someone has done the maths and they don't feel any extra sales that may be gained via Paizo would offset any financial loss on OBS sales. We simply don't know. So while we could maybe display our disappointment with the decision, we perhaps shouldn't mock that decision like its an obviously bad business practice.

b) you use very emotive phrasing to describe how you feel about WotC's decision not to distribute PDFs via Paizo and do so in such a way as to imply some unethical intent on WotC's part, rather than what may actually be good business practice.
"So I'm getting kicked in my groins for buying PDFs from Paizo just because?"
"Well, that's low"
"we're collateral damage"

TL;DR - I am trying to present a less emotive counterpoint to your comments, which you then seem to interpret (perhaps due to your obvious dislike of WotC) as trying to make out that WotC is whiter-than-whiter when that is not the case (both in the sense that it is not what I am doing, and that WotC is not whiter-than-white!)


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Gorbacz wrote:
The 24h window was ridiculously short, double so for people who live several time zones away (the news hit in the middle of the night for us, and I didn't notice it until I returned from work in the evening).

Believe me, I know. I'm Jewish, and due to the Passover holiday, I didn't have internet access. I didn't find out until it was far too late. (If I had known the pullout would happen, I would have bought a ton of PDFs out of panic.)

Still, once you buy a file, I would expect you to download it right away. Why would anyone not?

I certainly didn't feel like WotC "kicked" us customers. It was more like they chased us away. A lot of businesses seem to do that, for reasons I could never comprehend. It happens. And when it happens, the only thing those businesses "deserve" is to lose customers. There's no need for any hard feelings. We should simply take our business elsewhere. So I did. And here I am.


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Being able to engage in a real time dialog with people at the other end of the food chain (products, availability, development, customer service) should be recognized today as the single greatest advancement in retail distribution in the history of the world.

Sczarni

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Aaron Bitman wrote:


Still, once you buy a file, I would expect you to download it right away. Why would anyone not?

I have a number of PDFs from 3rd party publishers I bought to go with a certain AP - that group ended up falling through before it even got started. I have never downloaded theese as they were never needed


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There's certainly something in what Terquem says. I don't agree with every decision Paizo ever made, but the people at this company really talk to us. Even the most senior staff clearly convey to us that at heart, they're gamers, just like us. When we complain, the people at Paizo make it clear that they CARE, and will do whatever they reasonably can to help.

And it's not only the staff. There's a huge online community at this website that's eager to help with your questions and problems.

That's what got me hooked on this site. That's why, five years ago, there was no question of my buying WotC PDFs from Paizo, instead of from DriveThruRPG. That's also why I bought other gaming equipment from Paizo, when I could have saved a few pennies at Noble Knight Games. That's why I gave Paizo products a try, despite my misgivings, such as the higher prices. Indeed, I'm now spending more money on Pathfinder than I had ever spent on RPG materials in my life, and I'm sure I never would have done so if not for this site.


Cpt_kirstov wrote:
I have a number of PDFs from 3rd party publishers I bought to go with a certain AP - that group ended up falling through before it even got started. I have never downloaded theese as they were never needed

...

I don't mean to criticize. I'm just trying to understand this. If you believe that you might need PDFs, say, a month from now, why not wait until THEN to buy them? If you buy them now, why not download them now?

I mean, once you spend your hard-earned money on a PDF, even if you wind up not needing it after all, you could still browse the thing for ideas, or just for the entertainment of reading it, or at the very least, to satisfy your curiosity about what the document says.

The only explanation with which I can come up is that maybe there's some limited-time discount, or sale. But even then, why not download?

Contributor

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Quite honestly, you may have multiple machines and no desire to figure out how to configure the filing on each one so you'll find the file precisely when you need it. Having the file kept securely in an online library to download on any particular machine when you need it is more useful than having the file you wanted somewhere in an old laptop in a house or apartment in some other city from where you are currently.

Having the data stored by the company who originally sold you the data is more convenient for the user than having to configure some other online storage arrangement or having to leave a computer plugged in 24/7 in another house.

Contributor

Yeah, I have to admit I "lost" some Forgotten Realms material when the Wizards plug got pulled here. I had them downloaded on a laptop I was using for a freelance job (I know, I know) and simply forgot to transfer them over to one of my home machines when I turned it in. I realize I have nobody to blame for that but myself, mind.


That's a good answer. I'll admit that I hadn't thought of that.


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Aaron Bitman wrote:
Cpt_kirstov wrote:
I have a number of PDFs from 3rd party publishers I bought to go with a certain AP - that group ended up falling through before it even got started. I have never downloaded theese as they were never needed

...

I don't mean to criticize. I'm just trying to understand this. If you believe that you might need PDFs, say, a month from now, why not wait until THEN to buy them? If you buy them now, why not download them now?

I mean, once you spend your hard-earned money on a PDF, even if you wind up not needing it after all, you could still browse the thing for ideas, or just for the entertainment of reading it, or at the very least, to satisfy your curiosity about what the document says.

The only explanation with which I can come up is that maybe there's some limited-time discount, or sale. But even then, why not download?

I don't use PDFs much, but as a general rule I keep them on paizo.com and download them when I need them. Most of my files have never been downloaded (or downloaded, browsed and then not saved).

I trust paizo to do a better job of backing up and sensible cataloging than me. Plus this way I know ill always have the most recent version.


Ah! You get pdf's by SUBSCRIPTION! I'm beginning to see the light.

(Of course, that doesn't apply to WotC's old-edition downloads.)


Predominantly, although I have several individually purchased PDFs I also file in the "my downloads" section at paizo.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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There have been a number of PDF publishers who have withdrawn PDFs from sale over the years that Paizo has been doing business. When that happens, we always ask the publisher if it's ok for us to allow the people who have already purchased them to be able to access them after they no longer available for sale to new customers, and I *think* that, apart from Wizards, every publisher has agreed to allow that. Maybe there's one I'm not thinking of, but it's certainly not a common situation.

Sovereign Court

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I regret that the intellectual property of AD&D is in the hands of incompetent boobs. WotC is dead to me. I make it a point to not buy any of their products. I get to have my say by voting with my dollar. I urge others who feel this way to do the same. Simply don't buy anything, not even their PDFs.

As an alternative, check out the new Gygax Magazine being released this Saturday, or check out the brothers Chenault's version called Castles & Crusades (Troll Lord Games), or you can download a free copy of the 1st edition rules (the tome is called OSRIC). There are of course other options as well. Second hand book stores, ebay, and fine game stores still carry the full line of AD&D products (used of course). I recommend acquiring a copy of the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide and reading through it often for the enjoyment of high gygaxian prose, or for inspiration. Many conventions sell AD&D modules, and honestly there is more character in those old prints than anything new might have to offer. You can stop by GENCON this year as well, there's tons of AD&D stuff to be found at reasonable prices.

Basically - there is no marvelous gift here. The WotC have shown that in the blink of an eye they can act in a manner that aggravates gamers, shown no customer favor by having revoked the PDFs in the first place, and have for the most part fracked-up the game we've enjoyed for decades by placing their eye on profit rather than the integrity of the game (4e is, was, and ever shall be an abomination that trampled the history and traditions of our game).

At times like this, I ask the oft-forgiving public to cast aside their forgetfulness for a moment, because WotC is expecting the consumer base they cast aside to wake up one day having forgotten what had happened with the sudden pulling of PAIZO's licence to make Dungeon and Dragon magazines, even when they knew it was a better quality than it had ever been before. WotC expects you to forget the fibs told at GENCON 07 about the open free virtual DDI and all the technical support they would provide. WotC expects you to forget because they think the gaming community is a bunch of sheep, just waiting in line to re-buy their products even when the quality is poor. The WotC expect middle-aged gamers to forget the flash-based media they released comparing gamers who had negative feedback to internet trolls. They want you to forget how they told you to "wrap up your campaigns" and "this ain't your daddy's D&D" and explained that the way you're playing the game isn't good all in favor of marketing a less-than-par edition.

Its 2013, and we've moved on. I still play AD&D and C&C occasionally. And the last thing I will ever do is give 1 more cent to WotC. They've wronged a generation (and many 3rd party publishers) by making the GSL so iron clad that publishers had to destroy their product and if publishers wrote for 4e they had to stop writing for the previous edition. This was a CR20 corporate monster that ate up all good will of this community like a Tarrasque on holiday. And for that... I won't forget. I will remember how I felt as a customer, and especially how I felt through all of this as a gamer. Thanks for listening.


Pax Veritas,

WotC was never alive in other than a fictive sense in which any corporation is an individual for legal purposes. Small privately held corporations may act ethically; large publicly held corporations act legally. What WotC did was legal, although you can argue the ethics of it. WotC irritated me immensly by cancelling Dragon and Dungeon as well as by pulling PDF sales. I have no plans to irritate myself by avoiding products they have that I do want, nor will I pirate them to "prove a point" or avoid the costs involved. I do have ethics on which I act. You can't, in the revolving door world of big coporations, hold grudges against things that were done years ago and expect the rest of the world to follow your lead or for that matter expect your actions will "punish" those responsible or affect future behavior. You can punish yourself of course. As always, ymmv.


Pax Veritas wrote:
WotC is dead to me. I make it a point to not buy any of their products. I get to have my say by voting with my dollar. I urge others who feel this way to do the same. Simply don't buy anything, not even their PDFs.

That's funny. I would say the opposite: Buy PDFs to send WotC the message that offering old material is a good idea.

Of course, I could understand it if you wanted to hold out until WotC offered the downloads through Paizo. That would REALLY send a message!

Liberty's Edge

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Having the data stored by the company who originally sold you the data is more convenient for the user than having to configure some other online storage arrangement or having to leave a computer plugged in 24/7 in another house.

Whilst I can see this might be handy, and indeed I have redownloaded PDFs to access them because I didn't have access to the machine on which I originally downloaded them too, it worries me that Paizo may be being used as an alternative to Cloud Storage.

I really think it would be in Paizo's best interest to make it clear that they cannot guarantee the ability to download PDFs in the future.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Aaron Bitman wrote:
Pax Veritas wrote:
WotC is dead to me. I make it a point to not buy any of their products. I get to have my say by voting with my dollar. I urge others who feel this way to do the same. Simply don't buy anything, not even their PDFs.

That's funny. I would say the opposite: Buy PDFs to send WotC the message that offering old material is a good idea.

Of course, I could understand it if you wanted to hold out until WotC offered the downloads through Paizo. That would REALLY send a message!

For that to work, you have to let WotC know that you're holding out. If you don't buy them from DriveThru and don't communicate that fact, they'll just assume you don't want them.


True. I meant that buying WotC downloads from Paizo AFTER they become available here, assuming that they do, would send a message. I'll admit that's a big assumption.

But really, that "hold out for Paizo" bit was an afterthought. My main point was that we should buy from WotC the kinds of products we want, to send the right message.

It is, of course, hypocritical of me to say that. I have no plans to buy WotC's stuff, just because my PFRPG-related wishlist is too long. But boycotting a company's products because of its past actions, when it's clearly trying to fix its mistakes, would CERTAINLY not send the right message!

Sczarni

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Steve Geddes wrote:
Aaron Bitman wrote:
Cpt_kirstov wrote:
I have a number of PDFs from 3rd party publishers I bought to go with a certain AP - that group ended up falling through before it even got started. I have never downloaded theese as they were never needed

...

I don't mean to criticize. I'm just trying to understand this. If you believe that you might need PDFs, say, a month from now, why not wait until THEN to buy them? If you buy them now, why not download them now?

I mean, once you spend your hard-earned money on a PDF, even if you wind up not needing it after all, you could still browse the thing for ideas, or just for the entertainment of reading it, or at the very least, to satisfy your curiosity about what the document says.

The only explanation with which I can come up is that maybe there's some limited-time discount, or sale. But even then, why not download?

I don't use PDFs much, but as a general rule I keep them on paizo.com and download them when I need them. Most of my files have never been downloaded (or downloaded, browsed and then not saved).

I trust paizo to do a better job of backing up and sensible cataloging than me. Plus this way I know ill always have the most recent version.

I bought them in preparation to a later part of Legacy of Fire. It was going to support the changes I was planning to make to 2 specific encounters.

When the group broke down, I decided it was better to read my paizo things that will still help me in playing PFS than 3rd party things for a campaign that may never get off the ground again

Contributor

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DigitalMage wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Having the data stored by the company who originally sold you the data is more convenient for the user than having to configure some other online storage arrangement or having to leave a computer plugged in 24/7 in another house.

Whilst I can see this might be handy, and indeed I have redownloaded PDFs to access them because I didn't have access to the machine on which I originally downloaded them too, it worries me that Paizo may be being used as an alternative to Cloud Storage.

I really think it would be in Paizo's best interest to make it clear that they cannot guarantee the ability to download PDFs in the future.

No one can guarantee anything. Online hosting companies go belly up with frequency, new management teams come up with bizarre and draconian policies, and so on and so forth.

Cloud storage is also only as secure as the company its based in. I remember some years ago when AT&T pimped the ease and convenience of having your answering machine hosted on their servers so it wouldn't go out with a power failure. Then they blew a transformer in a heatwave and all the customers in the area were unable to get their messages for days.

Currently cloud storage is nice for businesses but isn't attractively priced for individual users.


Vic Wertz wrote:
There have been a number of PDF publishers who have withdrawn PDFs from sale over the years that Paizo has been doing business. When that happens, we always ask the publisher if it's ok for us to allow the people who have already purchased them to be able to access them after they no longer available for sale to new customers, and I *think* that, apart from Wizards, every publisher has agreed to allow that. Maybe there's one I'm not thinking of, but it's certainly not a common situation.

I completely understand why you do things this way. However, I do find it odd that intellectual property owners assume that their IP rights supersede their contractual obligations...or more specifically, that anything they put in their "license agreement" is automatically legal. I'm no lawyer, but from what I've seen, courts often take a "it it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck" position when confronted with ridiculous EULAs (for example).


I guess I am lucky that I own physical copies of all the old AD&D stuff. It feels strange to call them old since I bought them when they were all new.


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Same here. Its strange that when you remember picking up a new module and ripping off the plastic wrap to check it out, it will always seem "new" to you, even 25+ years later when for everyone else its a "classic". Yet a different adventure that came out at the same time that you didn't buy DOES feel like an antique. Sometimes its not the product, but the memories you have attached to it.

Dark Archive

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Currently cloud storage is nice for businesses but isn't attractively priced for individual users.

$7/month for 100GB. That's not such a bad deal, I think. :)

Contributor

Ravenmantle wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Currently cloud storage is nice for businesses but isn't attractively priced for individual users.
$7/month for 100GB. That's not such a bad deal, I think. :)

$84 a year? For the amount I'd use it, not hugely attractive, and that doesn't even get into the security worries.

Plus there's always the worry of getting one of those corporate boilerplates about how they're either closing their service or jacking their rates.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Ravenmantle wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Currently cloud storage is nice for businesses but isn't attractively priced for individual users.
$7/month for 100GB. That's not such a bad deal, I think. :)

$84 a year? For the amount I'd use it, not hugely attractive, and that doesn't even get into the security worries.

Plus there's always the worry of getting one of those corporate boilerplates about how they're either closing their service or jacking their rates.

Why not just buy a portable hard drive? For that ($84) you could have a terrabyte WD with USB 3.0. I have backup copies on my Laptop, and keep another backup on my portable HD.


R_Chance wrote:
Why not just buy a portable hard drive? For that ($84) you could have a terrabyte WD with USB 3.0. I have backup copies on my Laptop, and keep another backup on my portable HD.

Yea, that is what I did, although I got a 2TB drive.

HERE is a link to Best Buy 1TB drive for $79.99, if you are in USA.

-- david


So I wasn't just being uncaring of what Wizards was up to and this was really recent. Oh happy day... and I think my entreatment budget just cried out in terror. To bad they selection is still so small. Lots stuff I'd like see get put up if they could.

Like the old Aleternity books. I was actually talking myself into getting them all digitally back in '09 when they shuttered the PDF sales.

The Complete Book of Villains (2e) is also on my "wish" list for a digital copy. One of those books that remains viable, especially for new GMs across editions.

Dark Archive

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
$84 a year? For the amount I'd use it, not hugely attractive...

The way I read your post that I initially quoted, you were making a generalization among all non-business users and that's why I wrote my own post. While it may not be attractively priced for you and the amount you'd use the service, it's a very good deal for me and the amount I use the service. If the purpose of your post wasn't to generalize, my apologies for reading your post wrong. :)

Quote:
...and that doesn't even get into the security worries.

Yes, there are security worries involved but the same can be said about any kind of storage. In the last year, three of my friends have been victims of burglary and they've all lost hardware on which personal and sensitive data was stored.

That said, you're right about security, and it's something I'm concerned about as well when using any cloud storage service (I've tried a couple of services so far). It's also why I don't store super sensitive information (such as material that operates under an NDA or some such). I use it primarily to store gaming material I write for my own games and similar non-sensitive material. And it's still a good deal for me as an individual.

Quote:
Plus there's always the worry of getting one of those corporate boilerplates about how they're either closing their service or jacking their rates.

That's a worry with all things, though, isn't it? Paizo recently raised the price on some of their product lines and while Pathfinder products and cloud storage aren't the same thing, it's still a concern for all industries. I imagine companies offering cloud storage services have increasing costs as companies in all industries do as time rolls on.

R_Chance wrote:
Why not just buy a portable hard drive? For that ($84) you could have a terrabyte WD with USB 3.0. I have backup copies on my Laptop, and keep another backup on my portable HD.

I do pretty much the exact same thing, with the slight twist that I use my cloud storage service to synchronize between my laptop and my desktop. I do have a 3TB WD (USB 2, sadly) on which I have another backup. So basically a cloud/hardware combo. I've had enough bad experiences with no backup as well as hardware failures that I'm not taking any chances :)

Contributor

I use my iPod as an extra backup drive, since what I'm backing up is text which takes virtually no space. And I've recently gotten into using Dropbox, which is very good for my needs.

Mostly though it's a matter of redundancy and the time to learn a new system relative to the time to use what you already have.


Dorje Sylas wrote:

So I wasn't just being uncaring of what Wizards was up to and this was really recent. Oh happy day... and I think my entreatment budget just cried out in terror. To bad they selection is still so small. Lots stuff I'd like see get put up if they could.

Like the old Aleternity books. I was actually talking myself into getting them all digitally back in '09 when they shuttered the PDF sales.

The Complete Book of Villains (2e) is also on my "wish" list for a digital copy. One of those books that remains viable, especially for new GMs across editions.

February the sixth will be the next batch of releases, then they plan on weekly additions to what's available. Hopefully the range will get quite broad pretty quickly.


Has anyone bought any of the pdf's? How is the quality? Are these the same as they offered in the past or have they increased the quality?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I've redownloaded some of the older material I purchased back in the old days. The overall image quality is better, and the bookmarking is decent, but some of the 2E Historic books are missing the poster maps which were in the original PDFs. I haven't looked too hard at any of the others yet.

More or less anyway.
The original maps for Charlemagne's Paladins were missing the far right side of the map in the original PDF. The new one has no map at all.

The original Crusades had a map composed of pieces with sections of overlap and places where portions were missing from the map, while the new version has the complete map as a single page.

A Mighty Fortress was missing the poster map in the original but has it in the new version as a single page.

Vikings had the map in the original but is missing it in the new PDF.

Age of Heroes had the map in the original but only has two small pieces of it, with reduced size and scanned on top of other pages from the book, visible behind the map.

I can't speak for the Celts one because I never found it for sale before they stopped selling PDFs, and haven't bought the new version yet.

So, as text and the body of the books I've looked at go, it's a definite improvement in quality and the bookmarking is a bonus. But it's a mixed bag for things like the pullout poster maps which may have been lost from the books they're now scanning. I'm not deleting any old versions of the files I download just yet.


Thanks. I guess I will buy a few pdf's of my favorites just to have. It would be nice to print out a copy to use it to update a module to Pathfinder rules. I will avoid material that had seperate posters unless I know they are included. It would be nice to have a thread that lists what is missing or improved in the new batch of pdf's.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I can note that the 1st Edition Deities & Demigods that they're selling now is not the one with Cthulhu and Elric material.


I believe I read (somewhere or other) that they are releasing the final printing of each title, as a general rule.


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I hope they redo The Secret of Bone Hill scan. It was free but it was broken up in many parts. It would be nice to have it in one file. I have 5 copies of the module but it would be nice to have a HQ pdf.


Paul Ryan wrote:
I can note that the 1st Edition Deities & Demigods that they're selling now is not the one with Cthulhu and Elric material.

I don't think they can include them. Gygax was told by their legal teams to remove them or be sued. It is a shame wotc can't make a deal to include them so current players can see them. The first printing has always been a sought after book.


Steve Geddes wrote:
I believe I read (somewhere or other) that they are releasing the final printing of each title, as a general rule.

Thanks for the information. I wonder if corrections will be included if they didn't make it into any printings? I doubt it but hope. That would get me to buy it even if I had a print copy.

The Exchange

PathfinderFan64 wrote:
Thanks for the information. I wonder if corrections will be included if they didn't make it into any printings? I doubt it but hope. That would get me to buy it even if I had a print copy.

Hopefully they will include errata in the PDFs and append any web enhancements, as well as OCRing and bookmarking. One of the issues previously was that the pirates were putting out better quality PDFs than WotC.

From reading this thread, they really, really need to get a good customer feedback system into place to alert them of dodgy scans and other QA problems.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PathfinderFan64 wrote:
I don't think they can include them. Gygax was told by their legal teams to remove them or be sued.

That's not correct; it's a myth that's sprung up around that first printing. The real history of it is printed on the product's sales page:

Quote:

The Chaosium Connection. After publishing Deities & Demigods, TSR learned that another RPG publisher, Chaosium, held the gaming licenses for the Cthulhu Mythos and the Melnibonean Mythos that they'd included in the book. The two companies arranged a deal where TSR could continue using the two mythos and in exchange Chaosium got the rights to use the AD&D and D&D trademarks and game systems for their multi-system Thieves' World (1981) release.

Ironically, TSR dropped the Cthulhu and Melnibonean Mythos from the book in later editions anyway, decreasing it from 144 pages to 128. Various sources suggest that this was either because they didn't want to promote another game company's lines or because they were afraid that religious groups might find those mythos offensive.

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