Version of the Beguiler in PF?

[PMSchulz]

Okay, for those who remember the 3.5 e expansion books, one of them presented the beguiler, kind of a cross between a rogue and an enchanter sorcerer. I had a character concept that ran along these lines (Conversion of a beguiler to PF) and I really can't find one. The closest is either the Sandman or Magician bards, but neither is a good fit. The Sandman has the bonuses to Bluff/Diplomacy and the magical trap disarming, but is closer to the spellthief from 3.5. The magician has the spells (With the expanded learning ability) but not the trapfinding powers or skill bonuses. I would like to not have to default back to the sorcerer/rogue setup, as this does some depowering. So, any ideas? Is this something that should be submitted to Paizo for the next class book? Am I just boned?

[Corlindale]

Sandman is a close fit in many ways, but doesn't quite have the range of casting a beguiler had. Its abilities are very much in line with what the Beguiler had, though, especially the bonuses against flat-footed opponents.

If you're mainly concerned about trapfinding a Seeker sorceror with appropriate spell selection might be a good option. Maybe combine it with the Sage bloodline for a lot more skill points (you still don't have a good class skill list, but it's less of a concern in PF).

[Quantum Steve]

I would go with the Sandman Bard, personally.

Illusion/Enchantment spells? Check
Armoured Casting? Check
Bonus to DCs vs Flat-footed? Check
Trapfinding? Check
Lots of Skill points? Check

Plus bonuses to theify skills like stealth, bluff, and sleight of hand, and sneak attack to boot. Not to mention his Bardic Performance.

What do you want your character to be able to do? And which of those things can't be done by the Sandman?

[StreamOfTheSky]

In terms of spell list, Witch is the closest to PF's version of Beguiler by a lot. The hexes also offer a lot of mind-control.

Trapfinding is a pretty small niche, and one that doesn't take much to do well in PF. Anyone can find any trap, detect magic is infinite use which also helps w/ magic trap finding, and anyone can disable nonmagical traps. And you can dispel magic on magical ones.

I'd say go witch and use traits to get Perception and Disable Device as class skills. Or if you insist on trapfinding class feature, dip for a level.

[Quantum Steve]

I've never been a fan of Detect Magic as a substitute for Trapfinding. Mostly because Detect Magic doesn't know a Fireball trap from a wand of Fireballs, and without Trapfinding, neither do you.

Dispel Magic needs line of effect, so it can't dispel a trap inside of a chest, though not all traps will be blocked from LOE. Also, while Detect Magic is unlimited, Dispel magic is not. Without a way to determine a trap from treasure one can expect to waste a lot of spells.

So, while both spells can be combined with Trapfinding to great effect, on their own they're somewhat lacking.

[cmastah]

Since several classes (primarily the casters) had their HD raised to the next dice, aside from raising the beguiler's usual HD to the next dice, can't you use it directly out of the book?

I say no to the spells on his spell list that aren't covered by the PF conversions (there were a few unique spells to that book) and he ought to be good to go (also, I think he has 0-level spells, just make them into unlimited cantrips).

I think the only unique thing about the beguiler is (in comparison to normal classes):

1. Clerics know all their spells but they must prepare them.
2. Wizards can LEARN all spells, but they must prepare them.
3. Sorcerors will forever be limited by their knowledge of spells (not including scrolls and items), but they DON'T have to prepare them.

Beguiler is unique in that he knows all the spells in his spell list AND he doesn't have to prepare them.

[PMSchulz]

Well, this is going to be a PFS character, so can't just use the beguiler straight. The thing the Sandman bard doesn't have is the beguiler's limited but useful combat spells, especially at low level. Also, the poison use. And the Sandman loses a lot of the bardic performances, as far as I can tell. Also, as cmastah said, the beguiler could toss all the spells on the list, though that isn't as much of an issue. Thanks for the input, folks. And keep it coming, it will be a while for this PC to come to light, there are seven others waiting to be played.

Anyone know how to submit ideas to Paizo? This might be one to go in.

[blackbloodtroll]

Are Samsarans PFS legal?

[PMSchulz]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Are Samsarans PFS legal?

Not sure. Where are they from?

[Diego Rossi]

The beguiler was a too good class. Beside his other abilities he was essentially a sorcerer with access to his whole spell list instead of a limited number of spells. Getting 20+ new spells after getting a new spell level and being capable to cast them on the fly is a great boon.

[PMSchulz]

Diego Rossi wrote:

The beguiler was a too good class. Beside his other abilities he was essentially a sorcerer with access to his whole spell list instead of a limited number of spells. Getting 20+ new spells after getting a new spell level and being capable to cast them on the fly is a great boon.

True. That's not as much a problem. (The whole Wizard BAB while trying to fulfill the rogue slot was, though.) It's just the class fits two of my character concepts, but for different reasons.