Can we have a sub forum for critique my item posts?


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Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan

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Having a sub-forum for the item critiques is something I saw suggested before but I can't where exactly.

This would help out in keeping things organized, it will keep posts from being buried and unnoticed, and it will let people focus and discuss the more interesting items without burying other items. Within the sub forum we could also start discussions on broader reasons why items might not have made it, what we learned while voting on them, and even post items not submitted but done for practice for next year.

What do you think?

Star Voter Season 6

Seconded

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

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I think I suggested this same thing early on. I figured the public voters will all have their own feedback for various items which the actual judges might have never even had a chance to see or review (i.e., because they fell further down in the sort order). Thus, the only "judges" capable of explaining what they saw or didn't see in those items would be the voting public.

Realistically, because there'd be so many potential responders to anyone seeking feedback, it might make better sense to set up a sub-forum where folks could start a message thread seeking feedback on their specific item. That way, all open commentary from the voting public who wanted to respond to that request could be collected in one place (i.e., a single thread) for the requester.

Even so, I'd point (like I usually do) that it's a definite misstep if you think feedback on your item alone will improve your design skills for next year. You have to widen your net by reading through all of the item critiques that get offered up so you can discover all the other design pitfalls others encountered. Only then can you really have a body of knowledge complete enough (and with enough examples) to broaden your Superstar potential.

But that's just my two cents,
--Neil

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Neil Spicer wrote:

Even so, I'd point (like I usually do) that it's a definite misstep if you think feedback on your item alone will improve your design skills for next year. You have to widen your net by reading through all of the item critiques that get offered up so you can discover all the other design pitfalls others encountered. Only then can you really have a body of knowledge complete enough (and with enough examples) to broaden your Superstar potential.

But that's just my two cents,
--Neil

I wholeheartedly second this. My first item was horrendous, but before my second entry I read through all of the item critiques for that competition and SKR's advice thread.

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

+1

If not, a thread titled "post here to request critique for my item" and a second (third, fourth... ) thread for "critique of items on page one-three"

Also, the Blazing 9 tradition will continue starting sometime in April for practice. Speaking of practice, can we postpone 'if I made round 2' threads until after the competition is over?

Marathon Voter Season 6

This sounds like a beautiful idea Neil. I have a hard enough time keeping track of the flow of things on the larger threads. And Critique My Item is probably gonna be nuts this year.

Shadow Lodge Marathon Voter Season 6

Great idea for a sub-forum. This would keep things organized compared to complete chaos in a single thread.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

Star Voter Season 6

I also echo the idea for a sub-form. It's great to help keep all these things organized.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka DLandonCole

Thoroughly agree with this idea.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan

Good to hear people like the idea.

Scarab Sages Contributor , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

I think it's a terrible idea!

Actually, I don't. But this thread went too many posts without a disagreement to be on Paizo, and I didn't want it to get banned or anything. :b

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

[sarcasm]This idea is great! That sub-forum would be incredibly useful! And everybody is going to read every thread. Especially the ones not about their items.[/sarcasm]

The biggest problem with this idea is going to be the shear number of threads. If someone's item doesn't get any feedback they may feel disgruntled, butt hurt, or some other negative feeling. By keeping the critiques to a single thread, there is a better chance of everyone getting feedback, rather than the few items people would want to respond to.

Last year I really enjoyed the judges comments posted to items. If people had actually read them I am sure this years crop of items would have been much different. And if those comments had been put in a individual threads, I am sure I would have skipped reading most of them just based on the items name. That being said, I actually expect alot less feedback from the judges this year since they may not have voted and only had a chance to view the top voted items.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

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[sarcasm]This idea is bad, because people won't take the time to read all the threads in a sub-forum! Just like they didn't take the time to read all the posts in a single thread! Especially the ones not about their item.[/sarcasm]

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
The biggest problem with this idea is going to be the shear number of threads.

Not really, Thomas. No moreso than the sheer volume of posts which clogged up the single "Critique My Item" thread.

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
If someone's item doesn't get any feedback they may feel disgruntled, butt hurt, or some other negative feeling.

You mean the way people took exception to the "Reject, Reject, Rejected" commentary before? If people don't get much in the way of feedback, that's essentially "feedback" all on its own. And, given the sheer number of "judges" for the public voting in Round 1 this year, I think the likelihood of no feedback at all goes down. There are plenty of very active board members (many of whom are passionate about RPGSS) who would likely provide at least some feedback for everyone. Remember, you still only get feedback if you request it (i.e., start a thread in such a sub-forum).

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
By keeping the critiques to a single thread, there is a better chance of everyone getting feedback, rather than the few items people would want to respond to.

The problem with keeping it to a single thread (even in the past) is how cluttered it quickly becomes. In prior years, the judges (and Paizo technical team) often had to ask others who were trying to provide feedback to hold off. Otherwise, it just got more and more difficult to keep track of which items had received feedback and which had not.

If you jam them all into a single thread this year and open it up to every "judge" from the public voting to provide feedback, that problem is going to mushroom in epic proportions. The only sane way of dealing with that onrush of commentary is to separate the items into individual threads and open a sub-forum to contain them. If that's not done, I suspect a single "Critique My Item" thread will explode to such mammoth proportions that few (if any) will bother to read all of it. In fact, they'll probably read even less of it than they used to.

At the very worst, I'd think a sub-forum of item feedback threads would be no less read than a single thread containing all of them. The primary difference is that a sub-forum would keep things more well-organized for those who do take the time to read everything. And that's what it really boils down to. If you're serious about giving RPG Superstar a go (as you well know), you'll take the time to read everything. If you're not, that's on you. Paizo and the judges can only lead the horses to water. They can't make them drink.

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
Last year I really enjoyed the judges comments posted to items.

I suspect the judges (or at least, Clark) will likely poke his head in to give some kind of commentary. Sean might, as well. Or, maybe he'll provide feedback to those which made the "Keep" folder again? Who knows? I doubt they'll be totally absent from such a sub-forum.

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
If people had actually read them I am sure this years crop of items would have been much different.

I highly doubt it. The contest has been running for six years now. More and more material has been provided to help people improve their submissions each and every time. And yet, every year, a lot of chaff continues to come through. That's because there are simply always going to be people with "TL;DR" syndrome. And, even for those who do read the judges' comments posted to such items, I'm not yet convinced that they're always able to discern what was meant...and/or fail to perceive when their next idea is about to fall into the same pitfall. Some do. But it'll never be 100%. It might not even get much above 50%.

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
...if those comments had been put in a individual threads, I am sure I would have skipped reading most of them just based on the items name.

And that would have been your choice. And you would have failed to "do your homework" like many others who submit items without preparing themselves well enough ahead of time. That's not going to go away simply because all the items are collected in one thread vs. an entire sub-forum.

But that's just my two cents,
--Neil

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

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Thomas, with all due respect, I disagree with you here. Spoilered for length and logical compartmentalization:

We've got more than enough critique threads serving as An Example To Others.:
We've got five, count 'em, five years worth of critique-my-item threads - some of them enjoying incredible attention from the judges. We don't need another one.

Saying "everybody should read all the critiques, therefore, we shall put all the critiques in a manner which slightly encourages said behavior, even though it's much more difficult to follow any one thread of criticism" doesn't hold water. The simplest way to receive and peruse criticism is if it's grouped in tight subjects, by entry. You won't force people to read what's good for 'em by putting the material in an inconvenient format - and you've already got the same material available from all the previous years.

Previous years had cause to group all the critiques. This year, we don't.:
In previous years, it was all about the judges' commentary. It made sense to make things as easy as possible for them - put everything in one place, let them take the entries in order.

That's not the case this year. The judges haven't discussed most of the entries; they shouldn't be taking all the thread's posts in order. In fact, there's no reason to expect anybody will be taking all the posts in order (though I bet a few hardy souls will :D). Responses to items will be haphazard and all over the place; if we group everything in a single thread, it'll be really hard to keep track of who's talking about what.

Instead, we should be making it easy to provide criticism (to items you remember), and to follow conversations (about items you find interesting). That's much better acheived by individual threads - whereas by bunching them all together, you gain very little indeed.

Providing individual feedback IS a worthy cause.:
Contest devotees know full well that their education doesn't begin and end with feedback for their own item. That doesn't mean that people wanting feedback for their own item is a bad thing. It's a great thing, and a very natural one.

Having established that anybody wanting to read lots and lots of item critiques has ample opportunity to do so, I see no reason why we can't have a forum just for individual feedback. If nobody at all learns anything at all, yet a hundred hopeful entrants at get individual feedback to their entries - is that really so very horrible? (Let's be honest - the unwashed masses never learn anything anyway. :P )

I'm not worried about 'neglected' entries.:
I mean, yes, it might come up. But no, threads vs. mega-thread isn't going to be a factor.

We've always had people complaining that their feedback "wasn't helpful enough." OK. Whether we use many threads or one mega-thread, it'll still be extremely easy for any one item to get lost in the shuffle if it doesn't spark many people's fancy for discussion.

We've just spent a ridiculous amount of effort voting on these items over and over again; I'll bet you dollars to donuts some of the forum members will be stepping up to spend a little more effort and Leave No Stone Unturned. And you know what? If somebody's entry is tragically neglected, I'm willing to bet that all it'll take is a "hey, I'd really like some attention over here" post. We're a sweet, nurturing community over here :snicker:. People are really really happy to help. I'm not seeing anybody going hungry for feedback once that's turned over so entirely to the forum community. Sure, some items will get more discussion than others, but that's true either way.

Hope I've covered your objections :) These are good points, and I'm glad you brought them up, but I think that upon consideration, they're pretty easily overcome.

ETA: Ack! Neil'd, alas.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Steven T. Helt wrote:

I think it's a terrible idea!

Actually, I don't. But this thread went too many posts without a disagreement to be on Paizo, and I didn't want it to get banned or anything. :b

Mission accomplished!

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Standback wrote:
ETA: Ack! Neil'd, alas.

I wonder what class he took to get that ability?

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
Standback wrote:
ETA: Ack! Neil'd, alas.
I wonder what class he took to get that ability?

I think Neil got to playtest the Mythic ruleset a few years early.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan

He was born Mythic.

I echo Neil and Standback's comments and add this personal experience:

I believe it was a couple of years ago that Neil himself critiqued an item for me. I posted it and he replied about three pages later. A single thread this year is going to be worse. Five, eight, or more pages between the item and the critique will be more discouraging than helpful. Far more entries plus far more judges equals monster of a task to critique and discuss items.

One benefit of this idea is that items will be able to have multiple comments, critiques, and replies. I predict many items will have whole multi-page discussions about them. That would be very helpful, especially if the person being critiqued returned with revisions to be further looked at. You can't really have that with a single thread.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Lots of good discussion here. I'm not sure if the Paizo tech team has it in mind to do a sub-forum for item critiques this year, but there does seem to be a lot of compelling arguments for it. Yet one more opportunity to up the awesome factor for RPG Superstar feedback/critique/commentary.

P.S.

Spoiler:
It does appear I somehow gained mythic initiative, but I suspect I'm not alone out there. Lots of eager people ready to jump in on discussions.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka theheadkase

I like the sub forum idea. Although we need to understand that as a community there is an implicit agreement that we will need to give a fair shake and provide quality feedback on as many of those threads as possible.

If the Paizo tech team agrees to do this we need to provide proof that they should do it again.

Also, I firmly believe that individual threads in a sub forum will give more focused feedback.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Boxhead

Something to consider in the subforum may be restricting the OP from posting again in their own thread. I'd hate to see the subforum clogged up with people perpetually bumping their own thread because they feel the feedback is inadequate.

I don't know much about the code involved, but either limiting them to not posting until X other people have posted, or banning them altogether from their own thread might be a good idea. Just letting people post their item and leave the discussion purely in the hands of others might be the best way for people to ge constructive feedback.

Just a thought.

Dedicated Voter Season 6

I don't really think blocking someone from posting in their own thread is the way to go. For one, depending on how packed the hypothetical sub-forum is (my guess is very), bumps will probably need to occur. Also, being able to ask questions in response to feedback given can be instructive as well.

Speaking from past experience in other critique forums on the internet, it's usually seen as good form to give feedback if you're expecting feedback. Meaning, people who post up their items should try to spend some time going around and giving feedback on other people's items. Hopefully, many of those people will feel compelled to return the favor. Not everyone will, of course, but usually those people find themselves getting comparatively less feedback. And, frankly, practicing looking at work with a critical eye can be just as instructive as getting feedback on your own work, if not more so.

I think the organizational benefits far outweight any other drawbacks. I know when I was prepping my item for this year, I spent some time going through past critique threads, hoping to learn something and also see if there were any items floating around on them with mechanics and ideas similar to my own. It quickly becomes confusing, especially if you're trying to go back and find a specific comment (wait, what did they say about something like ______?). That's only made more confusing by the whole "Hey, I never got any feedback and I'd really like some...I think you missed my item...?" "Oh, sorry about that! Can you repost it since it's four pages back now?" thing.

Ultimately, there will probably be people who are dinks, but you can't really help that any more than you can stop people from turning in head-bangingly awful RPGSS entries. You can only provide the tools.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

I agree, if it is added, they should be able to respond to their own thread. Maybe a critiquer will have questions about why an item was priced a certain way, the thought process behind spell selection, or etc. Pricing and spell selection tended to be big components when 2 items were roughly equal in coolness/usability when it came to my voting selections. There were a few items I couldn't bring myself to vote for due to the spell having nothing to do with the mechanics of the item or the price being too low/high for the item.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka DLandonCole

Are there any downsides to setting up a sub-forum?

I understand, although disagree with, Thomas LeBlanc's objections, but those are why it's not a good idea as opposed to why it's a bad idea.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan

DLandonCole wrote:
Are there any downsides to setting up a sub-forum?

More work for the tech team in the space of a few days. This idea should have been discussed a month or so ago.

Still we can hope and continue to ask for it.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

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Neil Spicer wrote:
I suspect the judges (or at least, Clark) will likely poke his head in to give some kind of commentary.

I think history has shown that I can't help myself. I can't NOT comment. Just like Neil can't stop himself from being a writing machine.

Dark Archive

I for one would love this and would hope it isnt much trouble lol

Especially since the community were the in a large part judges as well.


If an item fell too far down the list to get specific comments from judges (and I imagine that is the majority) would it still be possible to get a 'placing'? Eg. I start a critique thread for my item and get a simple: Your item placed 734/1100. Better luck next year.

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

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I think if we do get a sub-forum and get to start our own item threads, it would be nice if the community-at-large could agree to a format, as in: item name only in title, simply paste your item as the first post without any expository, explanations, or pre-emptive defenses.

A bunch of threads called, "What Did Y'all Think of My Whoozit of the Yippee Yow?" and "Why Didn't Anybody Like My Wonderous Item...I Worked Relly Hard In It" (typos intentional) will clutter it all up even more.

Shadow Lodge Marathon Voter Season 6

Joshua Allen wrote:
If an item fell too far down the list to get specific comments from judges (and I imagine that is the majority) would it still be possible to get a 'placing'? Eg. I start a critique thread for my item and get a simple: Your item placed 734/1100. Better luck next year.

SKR commented on this, to the effect that you either make top 32 or you don't. Clark has also commented that the top 89 are mathematically significant in terms of voting. I suppose the majority of people are going to learn more about design from actual feedback rather than just a number; a number won't help anyone improve is the vibe I'm getting.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

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Joshua, the Paizo folks have made clear that precise rankings will not be announced.

You can also see from Clark's description that such numbers could be rather difficult to interpret - if #85 is stronger than #1, then lower down in the ranking, precision will be even sketchier. The ranking is extremely useful at the scope of the entire contest, but the precise ranking of one individual item doesn't tell you very much at all. The actual, targeted feedback you'll get from people will be much more helpful :)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

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Yeah, no-one needs to hear that their item placed 989/1000 or "your item was culled", it'll just make people feel bad, especially there is no useful advice about how to design a better item next year.

I think the only categories that we need to know are what items made the top 32 (+4 alternates), which made the top 89 (because it's useful to know what kind of items the general public likes), and that the rest of the items didn't make either of these categories and that the designers should do their best to learn from feedback on their item and on other people's items.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Epic Meepo

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Nazard wrote:
I think if we do get a sub-forum and get to start our own item threads, it would be nice if the community-at-large could agree to a format...

Having read hundreds of items this year, do you really think all of the people asking for feedback on their items are going to follow an agreed-upon thread format? :P

Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Eric Morton wrote:
Nazard wrote:
I think if we do get a sub-forum and get to start our own item threads, it would be nice if the community-at-large could agree to a format...
As a Marathon Voter who's read hundreds of items this year, do you really think all of the people asking for feedback on their items are going to follow an agreed-upon thread format? :P

Depends... Is there a provided template? :P

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan

I was thinking about the format idea and I agree. I don't think everyone is going to follow it as not everyone takes the time to read the, "Before You Post Read Me," threads.

There is just no way to enforce a format, but what we can do is point out that they didn't follow it and what that tells us about their design skills. If they can't be bothered to read and follow a simple format, it doesn't bode well for larger important projects.


    I like the format proposed above with a little change.
  • Topic name is your item's name.
  • The body of the first post is just your item, nothing else.
  • I suggest allowing people to make adjustments to their item should they feel they were needed, so long as the word count doesn't go over 300 words.
  • I also suggest that it be asked that the OP wait to post again until after someone has replied to the first post.

Dark Archive

I think the person posting should be allowed to ask specific questions in there first post at least after their full item description.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Boxhead

CalebTGordan wrote:

I was thinking about the format idea and I agree. I don't think everyone is going to follow it as not everyone takes the time to read the, "Before You Post Read Me," threads.

There is just no way to enforce a format, but what we can do is point out that they didn't follow it and what that tells us about their design skills. If they can't be bothered to read and follow a simple format, it doesn't bode well for larger important projects.


    I like the format proposed above with a little change.
  • Topic name is your item's name.
  • The body of the first post is just your item, nothing else.
  • I suggest allowing people to make adjustments to their item should they feel they were needed, so long as the word count doesn't go over 300 words.
  • I also suggest that it be asked that the OP wait to post again until after someone has replied to the first post.

Emphasis mine. If you want good, true feedback, I would not make any changes to your item in the initial post. People will not necessarily have the exact wording memorized from the contest, and changes here will skew feedback.

I agree with the rest of this post. If people want to post revisions to their item, I'd wait until you have feedback from several people, but that's just my opinion, ymmv.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

I don't think there's anything wrong with people saying "here's where I think I went wrong..." in that initial post.

Honestly, considering what we've seen in previous Critique threads and the lack of attention to Sean's advice (and the template), I think trying to be really specific about rules in the subforum is probably a lost cause. I think simply asking people to just use their item's name as the subject and then post their actual item is probably as much as we need to do. Honestly, I don't think it'll get too crazy with bumping threads (though I think there will be lots of confusion early on as many people start posting their items ASAP and people try to respond quickly), but maybe I'm underestimating the boards.

Dedicated Voter Season 6

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Yeah, I'm of two minds on this one.

On the one hand, I can see why it's beneficial to get feedback on the original item, as submitted. I can see how it might be bad to "bias" critiques with commentary. A lot of people still have notes they took on various items and they probably want to share their thoughts on the original item, not on an updated version.

...At the same time, let's say you're one of the people who made a small and stupid mistake that you didn't notice right away. Typo, left out a word, formatting error, etc. It's an honest mistake and it happens and having fifteen people pop on to comment and more or less just say "Well, first off, learn to edit" isn't really that helpful.

I'm not even sure how I feel about allowing minor revisions, but not major ones. I think learning to spot your own mistakes and being able to fix them is a necessity as a designer, so being able to say "Well, after looking at it again, I changed this and this. What do you think?" could be useful for a lot of people.

I think, to an extent, people need to be able to ask for what they think is going to help them the most. I wouldn't want to turn people off of getting feedback because they feel like they can't ask for help with what's giving them trouble. Some people may want the complete, unfiltered deal, but others may not and I think that should be respected.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

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Yup. Let's not overthink this too much, OK? We don't need to preemptively establish rules and guidelines and templates for this. People will ask for feedback; people who want to respond, will. It'll work.

We've always managed before. We'll do fine this time, too.


I'd probably want to post my original submission as-written.
Then immediately follow that with a post of the fixed version (based on the mistakes I've already identified).
Then possibly follow that with a post of what specific sort of feedback I'm looking for, like cost, name, etc.

That way y'all can recognize the entry as-written, but can also easily see what mistakes have already been mentioned.

I should be able to edit the second post with updates based on commentary, further saving your time. Like a before/after photo.

Edit: hmm. no. I guess eventually you get locked out of editing a given post. bummer.


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In cases where writers get into workshops and critique work, there are usually a few main points to keep in mind when offering criticism, especially in an environment meant to be friendly and encouraging.

  • Start by talking about the good. What did the person do right? What did you like about it?
  • When you speak to the bad, do it constructively. There's a difference between letting them know where they went wrong and how it could have been better improved and simply letting them know how wrong they were.
  • There are inevitably people that have trouble accepting criticism and seeing fault with their work. Don't argue with them. Give your criticism and leave it at that. You can't force them to take it.

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Eric Morton wrote:
Nazard wrote:
I think if we do get a sub-forum and get to start our own item threads, it would be nice if the community-at-large could agree to a format...
Having read hundreds of items this year, do you really think all of the people asking for feedback on their items are going to follow an agreed-upon thread format? :P

Ha! That would be miraculous!

I seriously doubt everybody would follow an agreed-upon format any more than I think everybody in the world obeys all traffic lights and comes to a full stop at stop signs...but I still think traffic laws are a good idea.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Nowadays, I'm just looking forward to finding out what people thought about my item; gone is the time where I'd have angst about the whole process :)

And I agree that a forum with one item per thread would be ideal; much better than one ultra-ginormous thread with 2.2B posts :)

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan

It looks like we are not getting the sub-forum. The official thread for critiquing items was posted.

I am looking forward to reading all 32 items, reading the other items that didn't make it, and receiving feedback on my item. I am not looking forward to sifting through all the posts in the gigantic discussion.

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7

CalebTGordan wrote:

It looks like we are not getting the sub-forum. The official thread for critiquing items was posted.

I am looking forward to reading all 32 items, reading the other items that didn't make it, and receiving feedback on my item. I am not looking forward to sifting through all the posts in the gigantic discussion.

It looks like you are right. The critique my item is going to be a colossal clusterf+~*, which is unfortunate since that is really the true value of this contest.

Assistant Software Developer , Star Voter Season 7

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If you want to make a thread that is about your item, and only your item, there's always the Homebrew forum. It's available 12 months a year.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan

Well, we have an official answer. It was worth asking for it.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

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Ross Byers wrote:
If you want to make a thread that is about your item, and only your item, there's always the Homebrew forum. It's available 12 months a year.

With all due respect, the Homebrew forum is very very different than RPGSS feedback. The considerations are just different - Homebrew items don't need mojo; they can be SIACs; they sure as heck don't need to follow the template. No less important, advice there isn't given from the vantage point of "I voted for/against your item, and here's why," which is pretty crucial here.

If we won't have a subforum, we'll do fine without, but IMHO the Homebrew forum is neither here nor there.

Dark Archive

I tend to agree. We could all go flood the homebrew forum, but it just wouldn't be seen in the same context. Not to mention none of the judges would provide any feed back there most likely. One giant thread is much harder to navigate.

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