Building a Paladin of Asmodeus


Advice


Okay, first of all, it's not what you think, so put away the canon-rage.

There's a line in the Knights of the Inner Sea Player Companion about Knights of Asmodeus: "Some knights of Asmodeus refer to themselves as paladins, attempting to lend the veneer of righteousness to their grim deeds." (p. 18)

I'm wondering if there's a way to build a "Paladin of Asmodeus" in a way that mirrors some of a paladin's abilities. Obviously, you can't get all of them - stuff like mercies and so on, but I'm thinking of mimicking several of the skills in the same way that a priest of Razamir is a "Cleric."

I think that if I were to start a character who was a "Paladin" of Asmodeus, he'd be a Heavy-Armour sword-and-board fighter who dipped occasionally into levels of Inquisitor in order to get access to divine spells, judgements, and so on. That'd get the flavour, I think.

So, if you wanted to build a "Paladin" of Asmodeus, how would you do it?


Kill a Devil, become a Hell Knight?

Signifier has got the 3rd level spell requirement so may or may not fit better with your Inquisitor idea.

Sovereign Court

Heavy sword and board with divine spells and some paladin abilities? Isn't that essentially a Blackguard?


Thanks for the feedback.

Ultimately, I'm looking to build a PFS character, so Blackguard isn't an option. (Unless I'm overlooking something.) As a Pathfinder agent, I don't really like the option of Hellknight - the flavour of being beholden to two organizations doesn't work.

Sczarni

I'd say go Ranger, Weapon and Shield style. Then at fifth level take Boon Companion and trade your companion for something you can use as a mount.

That gets you martial weapons and shields, divine spells at fourth level and a mount at fifth. Looking pretty paladin-like so far.

Sadly, you're still missing Lay on Hands, Channel Energy, and Heavy Armor proficiency.

Silver Crusade

Depends on what you want to emphasize. One way would be:

Fighter (Unbreakable - UC) / Inquisitor (with the law or fire domain).


Ah, didn't know this was for PFS.

Do a combo of Cavalier and Inquisitor then?


cavaliers/ inquisitor or fighter/inquisitor would be the best in my opinion.


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Well Paladin restricts your alignment to LG so if you want to play an actual paladin,
then you have to look at Asmodeus and determine how his ideals can be met by a lawful good character.

Quotes from the inner sea guide:
"Some say that when the world was forged, Asmodeus wrote the contract of creation, agreed to by the gods."
"Asmodeus believes strict discipline, unwavering obedience, and the strong ruling the weak."
"Of all the evil gods, the other deities find Asmodeus the easiest to bargain and deal with."

So this is good,
Asmodeus isn't cruel and he doesn't despise kindness.

Play a paladin from Cheliax who helps only those who will bow down to your ability to help them. (boot kissing etc)

Those who ask for help but do not give praise have too much pride, and need to be taught humility!

Your word is unbroken. You hold people to their word and bring them to justice upon ANY infringement not to your liking. Likewise, you hold yourself to your own word, and will not break it even under penalty of death.

You perspective isn't that Asmodeus is evil, he is just the rightful ruler of this world. And as such you pay him the homage he deserves, for you know one day, all will bow to him and his fair rule will govern all to peace.


Thanks, Juke, but that's not an option. James Jacobs has said that there are no Paladins of Asmodeus, and regardless of that opinion, PFS rules say that you're not allowed to worship a god more than one step from your alignment - so no LG worshippers of LE gods.

RAW, I can't be a Paladin and worship Asmodeus - hence, the attempt to try and recreate the flavour through multiclassing.


Yeah, I'm thinking a Cavalier (Order of the Star or Order of the Sword, depending on whether you want the focus to be more on Asmodeus himself or the rigid order he embodies) or perhaps an Order of the Warrior Samurai (just fluff it to not be Eastern if you wish).

Multiclass with Inquisitor with the Law (Devil) or the Persistence or Imprisonment Inquisitions and get some nice hellish spells and stuff to go with it and you should be set.

Sczarni

Cavalier is a must if you want a warmount like a paladin, but I have my doubts about Inquisitor. I'd say Oracle would be a better fit.

Paladins are frequently the "face" of the party, not just due to high Charisma but because they tend to be "the hero" of any group they're in-- the one that promises the little old ladies he'll get their dogs out of the well and whatnot. The character you're talking about is less likely to do that, and so will need the Charisma to make up for it.

Cleric could also work-- then you actually would get to Channel Energy, but your choice of positive or negative. You could take Channel Smite too, to make it feel like you're "smiting" when you use it.

I still say just go with Ranger though.


I level of crusader cleric to get you channel then cavalier order of the star; then go into holy vindicator. Sword/Board healer. Once you get into Vindicator, your spellcasting will kick back in and keep you reasonably paladin-like.


Why wouldnt an inquisitor work? divine spells, you don't need a high charisma with certain archetypes, say the infiltrator.

Adds wisdom to bluff and diplomacy. perfect. heck, you can even choose how your alignment shows to others every day.

take heavy armor proficiency as a feat, or 1 level of fighter for it, and voila. sword and board fighter who has most of the typical paladin spells, high face skills. Only thing you're really missing is the mount, so pretend you have a bonded weapon.

Liberty's Edge

Ultimately how much you need to mimic a paladin depends on how much the people your trying to trick are aware of the ins and outs of paladins. March into town in heavy armor and save people from evil doers they will likely take your claims at face value.


Inquisitor with Trickery domain or Conversion inquisition to dump Charisma and still be a face

Silver Crusade

Magus could fit perfectly for some flavors of "paladins of Asmodeus" too. Could even see your spellbook as your own personal sacred book of contracts, depending on how you're getting your spells.

Heck, I think that gives you an easy way to go for one of those sweet looking Hellknight Signifer eyeless helmets/masks too.


Is the anti-paladin not allowed?

Essentially, a paladin is a cleric fighter hybrid, try going that way. Use your domains to mimic paladin like abilities. Anger is one of my FavS for the retubution strike.


Byrdology wrote:
Is the anti-paladin not allowed?

Can't be evil in PFS I believe.


Inquisitor or Magus. Bane/Arcane Pool is your Divine Bond.

Crusader Cleric would be nice.


Rynjin wrote:
Byrdology wrote:
Is the anti-paladin not allowed?
Can't be evil in PFS I believe.

Plus Anti-Paladin has to be Chaotic Evil, so it wouldn't fit Asmodeus anyway.


^Also a nice catch.


I just thought of this character.


play a Paladin who thinks Asmodeus is just misunderstood.
you can worship him, it doesn't matter since your spells and abilities don't come from him, they come from your LG-ness.
you may take a dim view of Evil Asmodeus worshippers, and see them as causing the confusion/giving him a bad name.
you would basically just be an extreme optimist. seeing him as LG is a stretch, but LN could be plausible.
perhaps a very low WIS/INT would go along with this concept. don't put many ranks in know:religion/planes.


Quandary wrote:

play a Paladin who thinks Asmodeus is just misunderstood.

you can worship him, it doesn't matter since your spells and abilities don't come from him, they come from your LG-ness.
you may take a dim view of Evil Asmodeus worshippers, and see them as causing the confusion/giving him a bad name.
you would basically just be an extreme optimist. seeing him as LG is a stretch, but LN could be plausible.
perhaps a very low WIS/INT would go along with this concept. don't put many ranks in know:religion/planes.
Earlier, Feegle wrote:

Thanks, Juke, but that's not an option. James Jacobs has said that there are no Paladins of Asmodeus, and regardless of that opinion, PFS rules say that you're not allowed to worship a god more than one step from your alignment - so no LG worshippers of LE gods.

RAW, I can't be a Paladin and worship Asmodeus - hence, the attempt to try and recreate the flavour through multiclassing.


You can play a Paladin that openly says Asmodeus isn't as Evil as people say.


my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but it's not really far off from the rules.

aside from clerics and druids and inquisitors, worshipping a god isn't really defined within the rules.
(i believe in PFS you can only count as a worshipper of one god, but it otherwise isn't defined except as a pre-req for certain abilities, in paizo's golarion worship of multiple deities seems to be the norm, while still being undefined in rules terms... i.e. it's just regular people believing certain things and maybe celebrating certain rituals that mostly don't do anything in rules terms)
the one step rule is for those divine caster classes tied to a deity, outside of that it's irrelevant. (i believe PFS has a 1-step rule, but that is for counting as worshipping for deity-pre-req abilities, PFS already diverges from the multi-deity norm, and if you don't care about such deity-pre-req abilities you can 'worship' a diety with no mechanical repurcussions just as people do so in Golarion under normal rules)
a normal paladin is ultimately not different than a wizard or monk there.

the entire context of JJ's comment on 'Paladin of Asmodeus' was in reference to an article saying how Asmodeus likes to lead Paladins down a path where they eventually fall. The article doesn't even use the term 'worship', it uses the term 'serve'. As it happens, Paladins explicitly can work with evil, which may well be seen as 'serving' from the perspective of Asmodeus (or an Evil PC they may be working with)

unless JJ wants to explicitly say Asmodeus can't try and delude Paladins into falling, or that Pallys can't knowingly work with Asmodeus (unlike other Evil - and the article doesn't even state whether the Paladins in question are aware/unaware of 'serving' Asmodeus), I will continue to believe that is possible. JJ's comment on "pally of Asmodeus" clearly (IMHO) was going off the concept of "cleric of Asmodeus" which just doesn't apply to normal paladins (who don't receive powers from a deity) on a rules basis... and what it means in fluff can only be understood by the article where it was used: where it refers to how Asmodeus likes to lead Paladins down a path where they will eventually fall. JJ's comments seem prone to not paying much heed to the nitty gritty (rules-wise), so he was very likely assuming a meaning of 'paladin of asmodeus' which doesn't exist in the rules, nor in the article which caused the controversy.

It's not clear what meaning the OP of this thread exactly intends, but knowing that vanilla Paladins don't have any special relationship with Dieties like Clerics/Inquisitors do, 'worshipping' Asmodeus could very well just be a belief that he's an OK guy who's nice and Lawful, and the Paladin could believe that the Evil stuff isn't really central to Asmodeus, but just some of his followers - Other truly LN deities have Evil followers, and Paladins (INCLUDING deity-linked Holy Servants) can worship such deities just fine.

I agree that there are no Holy Servant (deity linked Paladins) of Asmodeus, because they can only worship Deities of LG, LN, or NG alignments per the rules. Otherwise, there is no rules on 'worship' of dieties for non-Diety-linked Classes like Paladins, or Monks. Of course, staying true to your alignment makes it hard to really stray too far, but is plausible assuming some level of gullibility and especially a Deity who is happy to let you beleive what you want. As I've said, there is no rules-based link between non-Cleric/etc 'worshippers' and Deities, so the Deity doesn't really have to DO anything about, or even be aware of, somebody who decides to 'worship' them. Likewise, a Lawful Monk could 'worship' a Chaotic Deity like Cayden and not have a problem as long as they stay Lawful themself, their esteem for the Chaotic deity doesn't need to be esteem for the Chaotic parts, they can ignore or overlook those and focus on any other aspect that they like about the Deity... Again, 'worship' isn't really a rules-defined thing outside of the Cleric/Deity relationship.

Lantern Lodge

Azaelas Fayth wrote:
You can play a Paladin that openly says Asmodeus isn't as Evil as people say.

A LG Paladin who is in "LOVE" with Asmodeus in a fan-boy/girl kinda way?

Or if taken to an extreme... something like a "reverse" Annie Wilkes from the movie Misery (1990).
A Paladin who feels she or he can turn Asmodeus to "good". Aka, Asmodeus greatest "fan"?

Being seriously disturbed with a bio-polar/mental disorder could help reinforce the image... "I will make him good... I WILL..."
:P


Secane wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
You can play a Paladin that openly says Asmodeus isn't as Evil as people say.

A LG Paladin who is in "LOVE" with Asmodeus in a fan-boy/girl kinda way?

Or if taken to an extreme... something like a "reverse" Annie Wilkes from the movie Misery (1990).
A Paladin who feels she or he can turn Asmodeus to "good". Aka, Asmodeus greatest "fan"?

Being seriously disturbed with a bio-polar/mental disorder could help reinforce the image... "I will make him good... I WILL..."
:P

EXACTLY!

This is why in most of my settings I use Vestiges instead of Deities.

Silver Crusade

2 Levels of Cavalier (Cockatrice), 5 Inq, 3 Hell Knight. Go trickery domain.

17, 13, 14, 10, 10, 14.

That is pretty much a Paladin

He is PFS, you have to worship a God as a Paladin in PFS, and it can't be LE. He can't be a paladin


I forgot about PFS being completely fairly locked down.

Lantern Lodge

Ill_Made_Knight wrote:
He is PFS, you have to worship a God as a Paladin in PFS, and it can't be LE. He can't be a paladin

Not true.

The OP can play a Paladin of Shelyn (NG), the goddess of love and beauty.
(A legal PFS choice.)

If he goes with the "Asmodeus's Greatest Fan" ideal. His character can "see the good" (cough, cough) in Asmodeus and seek to redeem him.
Sheyln herself is noted to be trying to do something similar to her brother (an evil god.)

Even her favored weapon is originally/still evil and she make use of good and heroic deeds by her worshipers to "clean" it of evil.

Worshiping Sheyln could be such a Paladin's way of getting divine help in her quest to "save" Asmodeus....


Huh, I really need to read the "Faith Of..." Books again...

Silver Crusade

Secane wrote:
Ill_Made_Knight wrote:
He is PFS, you have to worship a God as a Paladin in PFS, and it can't be LE. He can't be a paladin

Not true.

The OP can play a Paladin of Shelyn (NG), the goddess of love and beauty.
(A legal PFS choice.)

If he goes with the "Asmodeus's Greatest Fan" ideal. His character can "see the good" (cough, cough) in Asmodeus and seek to redeem him.
Sheyln herself is noted to be trying to do something similar to her brother (an evil god.)

Even her favored weapon is originally/still evil and she make use of good and heroic deeds by her worshipers to "clean" it of evil.

Worshiping Sheyln could be such a Paladin's way of getting divine help in her quest to "save" Asmodeus....

Please help me understand this. I never said he could not worship a NG, I just said he couldn't worship a LE God, i.e. Asmodeus. I play a 10th level Paladin of Sarenrae in PFS, I try and redeem everyone. I don't think it is wrong if your character has a super redemption mission, I think that is awesome. However, trying to redeem something is different then being a fan of it. Asmodeus is pure evil, evil incarnate, and there is no good ontological speaking, he may do things that seem good, but they are not done with the right intent and right means. His end Goal is not a good world.

With that said, if a Paladin sat down at my table and said he worshiped Shelyn but acted like he followed Asmodeus, I would warn him that doing so is in danger of his Code of Conduct. Playing a paladin has strings attached, its the whole point of playing a one.

Lantern Lodge

@Ill_Made_Knight

Sorry! I misread your meaning. I focused on your words "He can't be a paladin"...

In any case, such a Paladin of Shelyn, clearly WON'T be worshiping Asmodeus.
It is more like a Paladin of Shelyn with a case of Overly Oppressive Fandom for Asmodeus.

Such a Paladin could be "SO GOOD" to the point that he/she sees the beauty in EVERYTHING. Even the biggest baddest LE Deity out there.

He/She is such a good person that if 5 separate friends ask him/her out for dinner, on the same night. He/she won't say no. This Paladin would go to each dinner and and finish each meal, just cos he/she don't want to upset any of his/her friends.

Aka, he/she is so good that he/she feels he/she can certainly redeem Asmodeus.

*Point to note, I don't think such a character would be easy to RP. The best example I can think of would be referencing Dawn French's character in The Vicar of Dibley.
Check her out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAQ1luNmX1w


Priceless...

Dark Archive

Oracle has been mentioned, but I'm going to reiterate. Oracle is a holy warrior that you can set the motivations for without worrying about offending any player or deity. That means it's the most flexible, roleplaying wise, divine character capable of taking on the mantle of "Paladin of Asmodeus". Oracles are also a very powerful class, and you would be able to emulate Lay on Hands with the ability to cast all cure spells.

My two choices for mystery would be battle or flames: Battle to emulate a paladin best, flames because what paladin of Asmodeus does not possess burning attacks and fire resistance? Sprouting wings of fire while wielding a heavy mace (using divine favour to make up for lack of BAB) would be some iconic Asmodean imagery.

For the curse, Legalistic is perfect, and probably handcrafted for such an oracle. Being forced to keep your word keeps you in line with the paladin feel, but constantly searching for loopholes keeps you definitely in Asmodeus' theme.

Some neat combos for a melee flame oracle include Gaze of Flames combined with obscuring mist or fog cloud, Cinder Dance + medium or heavy armour, and throwing fireballs ALL THE TIME.

There is also no reason why you cannot follow some twisted version of the paladin code. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with Feegle! :)


Okay, on the off-hand chance that this part hasn't been settled yet, I'll state it once more:

In PFS, a Paladin may not worship Asmodeus, and no amount of justification or arguing is going to change that. The questions of Paladin gods are argued at some length, and the campaign leadership has weighed in with a final word on the matter. Please, no more posts about how I could be a paladin who worships some non-evil aspect of Asmodeus - it's not allowed in PFS, RAW.

I want to create a character that worships Asmodeus, and claims to be a Paladin of said Archdevil. Frankly, I want to go to conventions and, as a player, introduce myself as a Paladin of Asmodeus while handing an explanatory note to the GM to forestall any disqualifications.

There have been some great suggestions in this thread, so thanks for those. Lots of food for thought.


You can be a Fighter with Power Attack as your Smite. Just use his Favoured Weapon. Maybe be a Weapon Master of his Favoured Weapon.

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