Protection from Evil has the following effect (among others):
"the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person). [...] This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion."
So is a character under the Protection from Evil effect affected at all by a Hold Person spell launched by a 5th level+ Lawful Evil human Wizard ?
5th level being the level where a creature is detected as evil as by the Detect Evil spell specifications.
You would still get the +2 resistance bonus to your save.
Okay. That's clearer for me, now. Thanks !
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There's no interaction between hold person and protection from evil in the way you're meaning, regardless of alignment.
Incorrect.
From Protection vs Evil:Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person.....While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target.
Hold person:
Hold Person
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 2, cleric 2, sorcerer/wizard 3
Dominate Person:
Dominate Person
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 4, sorcerer/wizard 5
Hold person is a compulsion, mind-affecting spell that falls under the "exercise mental control" clause. The control is limited to "STOP everything", but it is still a compulsion, mind-affecting spell, same as dominate Person.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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@Happler:
PfE doesn't shield you to ALL compulsions, only those which (as the spell says) attempt to possess or exercise mental control over you. Just because something is mind-affecting doesn't put it under that clause.
Protection From Evil: Does this work against all charm and compulsion effects? Or just against charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as charm person, command, and dominate person (and thus not effects like sleep or confusion, as the caster does not have ongoing influence or puppet-like control of the target)?
The latter interpretation is correct: protection from evil only works on charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as command, charm person, and dominate person; it doesn't work on sleep or confusion. (Sleep is a border case for this issue, but the designers feel that "this spell overrides your brain's sleep centers" is different enough than "this spell overrides your resistance to commands from others.")
—Sean K Reynolds, 05/31/11
Note that both examples of spells that aren't prohibited are mind-affecting, just like hold person is.
Hold person is a compulsion, mind-affecting spell that falls under the "exercise mental control" clause. The control is limited to "STOP everything", but it is still a compulsion, mind-affecting spell, same as dominate Person.
Wouldn't sleep be control, too, just limited to "SLEEP" instead of "STOP" or "DANCE" or "KILL ALL HUMANS"?
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@Happler:
PfE doesn't shield you to ALL compulsions, only those which (as the spell says) attempt to possess or exercise mental control over you. Just because something is mind-affecting doesn't put it under that clause.
Note that both examples of spells that aren't prohibited are mind-affecting, just like hold person is.Protection From Evil: Does this work against all charm and compulsion effects? Or just against charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as charm person, command, and dominate person (and thus not effects like sleep or confusion, as the caster does not have ongoing influence or puppet-like control of the target)?
The latter interpretation is correct: protection from evil only works on charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as command, charm person, and dominate person; it doesn't work on sleep or confusion. (Sleep is a border case for this issue, but the designers feel that "this spell overrides your brain's sleep centers" is different enough than "this spell overrides your resistance to commands from others.")
—Sean K Reynolds, 05/31/11
Danka for the FAQ. (missed that one). I always just simplified down.
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Hold person is a compulsion, mind-affecting spell that falls under the "exercise mental control" clause. The control is limited to "STOP everything", but it is still a compulsion, mind-affecting spell, same as dominate Person.Wouldn't sleep be control, too, just limited to "SLEEP" instead of "STOP" or "DANCE" or "KILL ALL HUMANS"?
I think the key difference are spells that have a set effect built into them, or an effect the caster may dictate and even change after casting. Sleep and Hold Person don't exercise any kind of ongoing influence over the target, while Charm Person and similar spells do.
The issue ultimately boils down to "Does Hold Person count as a spell that the caster can exercise control over a target?" And the answer simply is no.
I wouldn't rule Hold Person as a sign of exercising control over a target. The spell itself doesn't give the caster the ability to have your ligaments stop whenever he chooses, unlike the other spells, such as Charm Person, he can be like "Hey, go kill that guy," or "Hey, grab a potion and heal me." Hold Person, not so much.
It's the spell itself which does the effect, not the speech (or concentration) of the caster like it would be with the example spells. Thusly, I wouldn't rule it that way.
Of course, that's just me. YMMV.
@Happler:
PfE doesn't shield you to ALL compulsions, only those which (as the spell says) attempt to possess or exercise mental control over you. Just because something is mind-affecting doesn't put it under that clause.
Note that both examples of spells that aren't prohibited are mind-affecting, just like hold person is.Protection From Evil: Does this work against all charm and compulsion effects? Or just against charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as charm person, command, and dominate person (and thus not effects like sleep or confusion, as the caster does not have ongoing influence or puppet-like control of the target)?
The latter interpretation is correct: protection from evil only works on charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as command, charm person, and dominate person; it doesn't work on sleep or confusion. (Sleep is a border case for this issue, but the designers feel that "this spell overrides your brain's sleep centers" is different enough than "this spell overrides your resistance to commands from others.")
—Sean K Reynolds, 05/31/11
I think this is the first time I have read a rules clarification and thought "that is surprising."
For a second I thought that hold person might not be such a devastating spell...
Oh well, I think I will stick with removing hold person and dominate person from my campaigns. Never been a fan of neutralizing almost the whole school of enchantment with one 1st level spell, so at least this FAQ ruling doesn't make that issue worse.